The Klingon Empire

[JoeZhang]

However, the Klingon word that they use to refer to their political entity could be translated as Empire. Depending on the context of the name it may have been translated incorrectly and simply stuck.

All they were simply delusional about their status - they always tried to make out that they were these fierce warriors but on-screen evidence shows that experienced Klingon warriors who were 16 stone and 6"5 could be easily overcome by women who were maybe 9 stone and 5"5 in hand to hand combat. The rest of the Universe is simply humouring the Klingons in their delusion.

 

[DarKush]

I wonder if anyone has a list of the Klingon subject species (from the books, games, comics, etc.)? Same with the Romulans?

I've always been interested in learning about the other species that might be living within both empires.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

This is one of the perennial problems with Star Trek "empires" that seem to consist entirely of a single species. One could pretend that their military is only manned by members of the imperial society, but that doesn't reflect the historical pattern; empires have always drawn on their subject peoples for manpower in their armies, since the subject peoples were more numerous and expendable.

Well they could be there we just never see them I mean they never show the entire crew of a klingon or romulan ship.

 

[Cybersnark]

I can imagine the Klingons using subject races (or "kuve" ) as ground forces but not giving them ships. The they rebell, without ships they're stuck on the planet. If they have their own ships they can threaten Klingon planets.

That also makes sense considering that it's how the Klingons themselves got started; the Hur'q conquered them and put them to work using Hur'q technology. Mistake.

 

[T'Girl]

the Klingon word that they use to refer to their political entity could be translated as Empire.

That which grows?

easily overcome by women who were maybe 9 stone and 5"5 in hand to hand combat.

And she was about eight months pregnant at the time too, wasn't she?

 

[captcalhoun]

I wonder if anyone has a list of the Klingon subject species (from the books, games, comics, etc.)? Same with the Romulans?

I've always been interested in learning about the other species that might be living within both empires.

try memory beta.

 

[Sxottlan]

Maybe we don't see subject world natives fighting for the Klingons because the Klingons would rather be the ones doing the fighting to begin with.

 

[Christopher]

Maybe we don't see subject world natives fighting for the Klingons because the Klingons would rather be the ones doing the fighting to begin with.

The Klingons may glorify war, but they can't be completely irrational or impractical in their policies or they'd never be able to sustain a functional state. As a rule, the majority of the population of an empire would consist of members of subject populations, and it would be militarily foolhardy to refuse to employ that vast source of manpower, especially given what a manpower-intensive process combat is. If only the ruling culture went into battle, they'd end up getting killed off and there'd be too few of them left to keep ruling over the others. The empire would fall apart.

Besides, there have been plenty of human empires whose ruling cultures have glorified combat as much as the Klingons did -- the Romans being a prime example. And the Romans employed auxiliary troops from their conquered provinces because it wouldn't have been practical for them to do it all themselves. For that matter, the British had a similar sense of machismo and honor, a dueling tradition and all that, but they routinely employed subject peoples in India and Africa as cannon fodder.

And if it's the glory of combat you want, well, it's the commanders, the officers, who get the glory while the grunts are doing the bulk of the dying. Sure, in principle, Klingons consider dying in battle to be their highest ideal, but not all Klingons would be equally true to their ideals, especially when there are practical advantages to a commander staying alive and sending provincial grunts out to die in his stead, rather than getting himself killed and squandering his experience. A lot of the Klingon bluster about embracing death has got to be a load of bull. Combatants who are trying to die aren't very effective in the long run. The priority in combat is to stay alive. The commanders just talk about the glory of dying in order to convince their cannon fodder to accept being treated as disposable. But the commanders themselves probably have no intention of dying if they can avoid it. Even if they personally have no fear of death, they would have a responsibility to stay alive and protect the investment that the state put into their training and experience.

 

[shanejayell]

I think KRAD mentioned in one of his books that a lot of below the decks stuff was done by subject races....

 

[Stevil2001]

I agree that reading The Final Reflection and Keith's Gorkon novels is the best way to get a handle on this topic.

^The term used in the modern fiction that's equivalent to Ford's "kuve" is jeghpu'wI'. The Klingon lexicon in the GKN novels defines it as "Conquered peoples: more than slaves, less than citizens." Although an empire would have subjects rather than citizens.

Aren't kuve distinct from jeghpu'wI'? Kuve are slaves (or "servitors"), whereas jeghpu'wI' are not, by definition. I feel like Keith (either in a novel, or on-line) drew this distinction.

(P.S. Typing Klingonese words is really obnoxious.)

Empire of what? This was always a bit vague in the shows - do they keep slaves? client states?

In the second appearance of the Klingons on Star Trek, Captain Kirk says this about them: "Their empire is made up of conquered worlds. They take what they want by arms and force."

Yeah, but they never showed us the conquered worlds, never showed us the Klingon equivalent of Janissaries or sepoys. They told us the Klingons were an empire but they never actually showed us.

Well, we might not see Klingon subject worlds (except in "The Mind's Eye"), but "Errand of Mercy," "Friday's Child," and "A Private Little War" all show us Klingon attempts to seize small, primitive planets for the resources, so I assume this kind of thing happens a lot when the Enterprise doesn't show up to stop it.

 

[JoeZhang]

Well, we might not see Klingon subject worlds (except in "The Mind's Eye"), but "Errand of Mercy," "Friday's Child," and "A Private Little War" all show us Klingon attempts to seize small, primitive planets for the resources, so I assume this kind of thing happens a lot when the Enterprise doesn't show up to stop it.

Indeed, you have to wonder how often after a federation Starship has flown off into the distance and the crew are patting themselves on the back for obeying the prime directive that the Klingons move in, enslave the population and start strip-mining the planet.

 

[Christopher]

Aren't kuve distinct from jeghpu'wI'? Kuve are slaves (or "servitors"), whereas jeghpu'wI' are not, by definition.

Actually, the in-universe "researcher's note" at the front of The Final Reflection states that "the usual translation [of kuve] as 'slave' is not only inaccurate but inflammatory," which is why the translation of "servitor" was chosen instead. "Servitor" is not synonymous with "slave." It means an attendant or servant.

But of course, TFR is in a separate continuity with a separate Klingon language. What I was saying was that jeghpu'wI' seems to be the closest equivalent in modern-continuity Klingonese to the word kuve in Ford's continuity.

Yeah, but they never showed us the conquered worlds, never showed us the Klingon equivalent of Janissaries or sepoys. They told us the Klingons were an empire but they never actually showed us.

Well, we might not see Klingon subject worlds (except in "The Mind's Eye"), but "Errand of Mercy," "Friday's Child," and "A Private Little War" all show us Klingon attempts to seize small, primitive planets for the resources, so I assume this kind of thing happens a lot when the Enterprise doesn't show up to stop it.

My point is that real empires don't just conquer other peoples, they employ them in their militaries, bureaucracies, etc. as well as their servant classes. The whole point of an empire is to employ the resources of subject states in service to the ruling state, and manpower is one of the most important resources thus utilized. But ST just gives us monoracial alien warfleets populated by the ruling race, and that's an unrealistic portrayal of an imperial military force.