The "K" Sound in Captain

[Orphalesion]

Which doesn't really fit the show at all, since in "Shore Leave" the guy was afraid of a samurai. Why would a Japanese person be afraid of a samurai, one of the country's revered national icons of nobility and honor? It's like having an Englishman panic at the sight of Sir Lancelot.

Well, maybe not Lancelot when he's just standing there smiling, but Lancelot jumping at them out of nowhere and stabbing at them with his sword?
Because pretty sure that's what the Samurai did. And only because Sulu might be Japanese doesn't mean the Samurai would automatically be friendly towards him as little as a knight would automatically be friendly towards a random European person even if they are from the same country. I mean, consider stuff like the Senguko period, and even in peace times they could be severe and brutal to people of lower standing.
Plus wouldn't a Japanese person, especially one who himself appears to be interested in swordplay know best how fearsome and dangerous a hostile Samurai would be?

 

[Elder Knight]

Baseball fans will note that the "K" -- the scorecard symbol for "strikeout" -- suggests a power pitcher on the mound. Spectators at some parks would post a row of "K" placards to keep up with the tally.

https://imgur.com/a/ktCjGtP
This is Roger Clemens at work, but I think the practice began with Dwight "Dr. K." Gooden. (They should have done it for Sandy Koufax!)

 

[Christopher]

I mean, consider stuff like the Senguko period, and even in peace times they could be severe and brutal to people of lower standing.
Plus wouldn't a Japanese person, especially one who himself appears to be interested in swordplay know best how fearsome and dangerous a hostile Samurai would be?

But the planet's androids were based on the crew's thoughts and expectations, as read by the planet. Finnegan and Ruth acted the way Kirk imagined them, the Rigel II cabaret girls acted the way McCoy imagined them, etc. So it seems more likely that a person of Japanese heritage would default to imagining a generic samurai as a hero rather than a villain.

On the other hand, McCoy was "killed" by a Black Knight because he cast himself as a white knight protecting Tonia Barrows, and the planet gave him a suitable opponent. So it's possible that Sulu imagined himself as a heroic samurai and the planet sent a more antagonistic one after him. But that seems incongruous given that Sulu was otherwise always played as entirely Westernized in his interests, more likely to dream up Cardinal Richilieu as his adversary. It was just about the one time TOS went the Asian-stereotype route in writing him, and the only time it linked him to Japanese culture in particular.

 

[Farscape One]

Regarding Sulu, he seemed to have a broader variety of interests and hobbies than a lot of other characters across all shows.

Fencing, botany, weapon collecting to name a few.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But I don't think that it would have been that difficult on the West Coast of the United States, in the 1960s to get hold of a name that's actually from an Asian language/country. Probably all you needed was opening up a phone book.
And what is "Pan Asian" even supposed to mean? What? In the 23d century all of East Asia became a melting pot and decided to invent new family names? Yes the Sulu Sea, but still.

We took George Takei to dinner in Sydney in the 1980s. A restaurant called "The Philippino". And halfway through the meal, we realised we had coincidentally sat him under a banner with a map of The Philippines - and the Sulu Sea was clearly labelled.

He said that Sulu represented all Asians, not just those from Japan (or San Francisco). Roddenberry had a similar map of Asia pinned on a wall and he was staring at it, trying to get some inspiration for the Asian character. In an interview George is quoted as saying, "[Gene] thought, 'Ah, the waters of the sea touch all shores, embracing all of Asia.' And that's how my character came to have the name Sulu."

 

[Christopher]

"[Gene] thought, 'Ah, the waters of the sea touch all shores, embracing all of Asia.' And that's how my character came to have the name Sulu."

It touches only two countries. It's a small sea surrounded by the Philippines on three sides and East Malaysia on the fourth. It doesn't touch continental Asia at all; the South China Sea is in between them. It's incredible how wrong Roddenberry was about this. You'd think a former airline pilot would know how to read a damn map.

Well, I guess it could've been worse. "Raise deflector shields, Mister South China!"

 

[Orphalesion]

It touches only two countries. It's a small sea surrounded by the Philippines on three sides and East Malaysia on the fourth. It doesn't touch continental Asia at all; the South China Sea is in between them. It's incredible how wrong Roddenberry was about this. You'd think a former airline pilot would know how to read a damn map.

Well, I guess it could've been worse. "Raise deflector shields, Mister South China!"

He probably just liked the name of that sea, and then made up a justification for it, because even today not that many people know where it is or even that it exists.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It touches only two countries...

But put dye (or a message in a bottle) in that water and it will drift beyond those two countries.

 

[Christopher]

He probably just liked the name of that sea, and then made up a justification for it, because even today not that many people know where it is or even that it exists.

You mean not many Americans know where it is. The population of Maritime Southeast Asia is 380 million, about 50 million more than the population of the United States, so I'd say there are a hell of a lot of people who know extremely well where it is.

 

[Orphalesion]

You mean

I'm sure you know what I meant.

 

[Christopher]

I'm sure you know what I meant.

If that was what you meant, there was no good reason not to say what you meant.

 

[1001001]

If that was what you meant, there was no good reason not to say what you meant.

Can you just please stop?

 

[plynch]

Major agree.

 

[RaisedEyeBrow]

No, he was her security chief. Her first officer was Commander Cavit, who was killed in "Caretaker." That's why she appointed a former enemy, Chakotay, as her first officer. She would've had no reason to do that if Tuvok had been her XO -- which would have been unlikely given that his rank at the time was lieutenant.

Thanks for that. I was thinking that Janeway had demoted Tuvok and placed Chakotay as her first officer for the sake of unity with the Maquis. Also, because of the closeness of Janeway and Tuvok. But I guess I haven't seen the series in so long, I apparently forgot that. Also, I wonder if Cavit has the "K" sound in it.

I don't deny that. As I said, it's a symptom of the larger problem of having a mostly white cast with just one token each for other ethnicities, creating an unfair burden for them to be universally representative. I'm not saying it was right, I'm just discussing why it was done.

Progress is always incremental. A step that's inclusive and forward-looking by the standards of its time will often look backward and prejudiced by the standards of a later time. Indeed, that's exactly the way it should be, because it means that we've advanced even further since then.

That's an excellent assessment.

 

[publiusr]

I thought the “K” thing was Klingon anyway.

I thought you wanted heroes names to sound like verbs…Ritter (knight).

 

[Christopher]

Also, I wonder if Cavit has the "K" sound in it.

Yes, it does.

I thought the “K” thing was Klingon anyway.

Klingons and other villain/warrior species (Kzin, Krotons, Kree, Kromaggs, Krill) are often given K-sound names by their creators because it sounds harsh and aggressive.

 

[LisbonPlayer]

And then there's the J: James, Jean-Luc, Benjamin, Janeway, «Jackson»...

 

[1001001]

Don’t forget the “O” sound (get your minds out of the gutter).

Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Troi, Worf, O’Brien, Odo, T’Pol, Phlox, Malcolm, Hoshi Sato, Tom, Chakotay, Torres, Georgiou, Owosekun, Christopher, Number One…

Coincidence?

Or it that exactly what they want you to think…

 

[Christopher]

Don’t forget the “O” sound (get your minds out of the gutter).

Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Troi, Worf, O’Brien, Odo, T’Pol, Phlox, Malcolm, Hoshi Sato, Tom, Chakotay, Torres, Georgiou, Owosekun, Christopher, Number One…

Coincidence?

Those all have the letter O, but they use it to represent at least six distinct sounds (seven if you pronounced Sato's name the Japanese way, not that they ever did). So that doesn't count.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yes, it does.




Klingons and other villain/warrior species (Kzin, Krotons, Kree, Kromaggs, Krill) are often given K-sound names by their creators because it sounds harsh and aggressive.

Wild speculation: Maybe all dating back to "Cain," the first murderer in the Bible, and/or Genghis Khan?