The Janeway Way...

[Zameaze]

...then maybe the decisions that males make (which aren't always so great, btw, but don't want to be negative) could be blamed on too much testosterone.....

Men's actions and decisions are blamed on too much testosterone by women all the time (e.g. I can smell the testosterone in the room). And there is some truth to that--for men other than myself, of course.

And as a modern, politically correct male--I believe that men and women are exactly the same (except for maybe physically--there we aren't at all alike, and then there's that difference in our brain structures, oh, and that reminds me--the way we think is different, and, well, that's probably caused not only by our differing brain structures but also by our hormonal differences, and....well, anyway....) But all that aside, men and women are exactly alike! We are all unique, of course, except for men and women...who...err...are absolutely and completely alike. Are we good now, ladies?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Caffeine is dozens of times more powerful than testosterone or pms. Of course until about the last 40 years most of the men in charge everywhere were drunk. Our bodies natural drives don't stand a chance of gaining any traction against whiskey and coffee.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

...then maybe the decisions that males make (which aren't always so great, btw, but don't want to be negative) could be blamed on too much testosterone.....

Men's actions and decisions are blamed on too much testosterone by women all the time (e.g. I can smell the testosterone in the room). And there is some truth to that--for men other than myself, of course.

And as a modern, politically correct male--I believe that men and women are exactly the same (except for maybe physically--there we aren't at all alike, and then there's that difference in our brain structures, oh, and that reminds me--the way we think is different, and, well, that's probably caused not only by our differing brain structures but also by our hormonal differences, and....well, anyway....) But all that aside, men and women are exactly alike! We are all unique, of course, except for men and women...who...err...are absolutely and completely alike. Are we good now, ladies?

Is all this blather to say that you think quoting a webpage about PMS is acceptable in discussing Janeway's decisions?

 

[Zameaze]

Caffeine is dozens of times more powerful than testosterone....

Sorry to hear that, Guy, but hang in there. There's always Viagra.

 

[Zameaze]

...then maybe the decisions that males make (which aren't always so great, btw, but don't want to be negative) could be blamed on too much testosterone.....

Men's actions and decisions are blamed on too much testosterone by women all the time (e.g. I can smell the testosterone in the room). And there is some truth to that--for men other than myself, of course.

And as a modern, politically correct male--I believe that men and women are exactly the same (except for maybe physically--there we aren't at all alike, and then there's that difference in our brain structures, oh, and that reminds me--the way we think is different, and, well, that's probably caused not only by our differing brain structures but also by our hormonal differences, and....well, anyway....) But all that aside, men and women are exactly alike! We are all unique, of course, except for men and women...who...err...are absolutely and completely alike. Are we good now, ladies?

Is all this blather to say that you think quoting a webpage about PMS is acceptable in discussing Janeway's decisions?

So, I guess we're not OK?

(BTW, I wasn't discussing Janeway's decisions--that's way beyond me. I was making fun of Janeway's decisions. That's within all of our purviews.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sorry to hear that, Guy, but hang in there. There's always Viagra.

Reminds me too much of Smurf pooh.

 

[froot]

Men's actions and decisions are blamed on too much testosterone by women all the time (e.g. I can smell the testosterone in the room).

True. And it's not like testosterone and estrogen don't do anything. Of course they do. It's just as unfair for women to turn around and call men idiots who can't control themselves. JR mentioned that.

And as a modern, politically correct male--I believe that men and women are exactly the same (except for maybe physically--there we aren't at all alike, and then there's that difference in our brain structures, oh, and that reminds me--the way we think is different, and, well, that's probably caused not only by our differing brain structures but also by our hormonal differences, and....well, anyway....) But all that aside, men and women are exactly alike! We are all unique, of course, except for men and women...who...err...are absolutely and completely alike. Are we good now, ladies?

Men and women do operate differently, as a general rule (physically as well as mentally - I mean, there's a reason most sports/Olympic events aren't co-ed after all!) That wasn't really the problem. It was just that your joke touched a raw nerve - the implication that all poor female decisions can be written off as a hormonal imbalance (like how they used to diagnose women left and right with "female hysteria" at the turn of the century.) It's just kind of old hat at this point and tends to be more annoying than funny. That's why the reception was frosty.

 

[Zameaze]

Men's actions and decisions are blamed on too much testosterone by women all the time (e.g. I can smell the testosterone in the room).

True. And it's not like testosterone and estrogen don't do anything. Of course they do. It's just as unfair for women to turn around and call men idiots who can't control themselves. JR mentioned that.

And as a modern, politically correct male--I believe that men and women are exactly the same (except for maybe physically--there we aren't at all alike, and then there's that difference in our brain structures, oh, and that reminds me--the way we think is different, and, well, that's probably caused not only by our differing brain structures but also by our hormonal differences, and....well, anyway....) But all that aside, men and women are exactly alike! We are all unique, of course, except for men and women...who...err...are absolutely and completely alike. Are we good now, ladies?

Men and women do operate differently, as a general rule (physically as well as mentally - I mean, there's a reason most sports/Olympic events aren't co-ed after all!) That wasn't really the problem. It was just that your joke touched a raw nerve - the implication that all poor female decisions can be written off as a hormonal imbalance (like how they used to diagnose women left and right with "female hysteria" at the turn of the century.) It's just kind of old hat at this point and tends to be more annoying than funny. That's why the reception was frosty.

That's OK, I'm married, I can take frosty. But as for the rest of what you said, if you're going to argue all logically and sensibly, well, then, I'm just going to take my ball and go home.

But I have learned something--PMS is like the N word: It's all right for women to joke about but not men. I will now scratch off all of the PMS jokes from the speech I'll be delivering at NOW (National Organization for Women) later today.

Sorry to hear that, Guy, but hang in there. There's always Viagra.

Reminds me too much of Smurf pooh.

Cool, you found their spoor. Want to go hunting later? I could use a blue pair of shoes.

 

[kimc]

Did Ransom not deal with Caretaker because he was drinking the Prime Directive Coolaide or because he was a massive wussy?

That's a really good point.

Meanwhile, if I had a dollar for every time I told what I thought was a really funny joke that fell flat over my years here then I could have my very own coffee plantation. Can you imagine the caffeine buzz from that?

Humor can be difficult to convey on a message board - especially for those of us with dry or sarcastic humor. No choice but to just deal...

 

[2 of 10]

Damn . . . teacake got to this first . . . I better not be banned from the Compound for this . . .

But her decision with the Equinox fiasco was kind of bad . . . .

Beyond that I have no qualms about anything else . . . Just Equinox leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Mine also, I must remind myself that A) Kathrine, does hold a grudge B) The P/D is her Holy Grail, must NEVER be broken
C) Ensine Lessing would never have betrayed his Capt..Wish
the same could have been said for Max, was not sad to see him
petrified. Leading me to one last question, once Ranson set
auto-nav, he had time to put on the "Poor man's Holodeck"
one would have thought he would have had time to have done an emergency transport over to Voyager..any thoughts???

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Damn . . . teacake got to this first . . . I better not be banned from the Compound for this . . .

But her decision with the Equinox fiasco was kind of bad . . . .

Beyond that I have no qualms about anything else . . . Just Equinox leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Mine also, I must remind myself that A) Kathrine, does hold a grudge B) The P/D is her Holy Grail, must NEVER be broken
C) Ensine Lessing would never have betrayed his Capt..Wish
the same could have been said for Max, was not sad to see him
petrified. Leading me to one last question, once Ranson set
auto-nav, he had time to put on the "Poor man's Holodeck"
one would have thought he would have had time to have done an emergency transport over to Voyager..any thoughts???

Well he probably resigned himself to dying considering the fact that she would just put him into the brig, and when they got back to earth he would probably be imprisoned for major crimes against the Prime Directive. So dying was a better deal.

 

[Tallifer]

Janeway constantly reminds me of those British officials of the Raj in India who refused to go native in any way, giving rise to the expression, "Only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun." She often makes stupid decisions only for the sake of upholding an inflexible and narrow idea of Federation values. Kirk was a Federation captain too: could she not model herself after a hero of the Federation rather than some ineffective armchair admiral?

 

[henbane]

How do you know she was an ineffective Admiral??

Actually - Kirk and Janeway were very similar in their treatment of The PD and when facing challenges.

 

[henbane]

How do you know she was an ineffective Admiral??

Actually - Kirk and Janeway were very similar in their treatment of The PD and when facing challenges.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I've always said Janeway is the most like Kirk.

That is why she's a BAMF!!!!!

Lateral thinking, very clever, comes to fast conclusions, not afraid of action and very sure of her own intuition.

In other words, NO TIME FOR TEA.

 

[janeway59]

I've always said Janeway is the most like Kirk.

That is why she's a BAMF!!!!!

Lateral thinking, very clever, comes to fast conclusions, not afraid of action and very sure of her own intuition.

In other words, NO TIME FOR TEA.

I agree, you've said it very well.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I guess I will post this here though it is in the pic thread.. because you know Janeway is cut from a different cloth than many.

 

[Tallifer]

I have just watched the episode where Voyager discovers the unstable wormhole (from Next Generation). After transporting the two renegade Ferengi aboard, Janeway could have taken Voyager and them to the alpha quadrant through the wormhole, but she allows herself to be persuaded by the two confidence men that it would be harmful to take the Ferengi "gods" away from the primitives on the planet. Thus in the end Voyager fails to use the wormhole. Just wow.

(In response to Henbane, I did not say Janeway was an ineffective admiral (was she ever one?). I said that she modeled her behaviour after such a person, meaning that she often based her decisions on Starfleet Academy doctrine.)

 

[janeway59]

I have just watched the episode where Voyager discovers the unstable wormhole (from Next Generation). After transporting the two renegade Ferengi aboard, Janeway could have taken Voyager and them to the alpha quadrant through the wormhole, but she allows herself to be persuaded by the two confidence men that it would be harmful to take the Ferengi "gods" away from the primitives on the planet. Thus in the end Voyager fails to use the wormhole. Just wow.

(In response to Henbane, I did not say Janeway was an ineffective admiral (was she ever one?). I said that she modeled her behaviour after such a person, meaning that she often based her decisions on Starfleet Academy doctrine.)

She was an admiral briefly in Nemisis And she was a starfleet officer, what other doctrine would she follow if not Star Fleet?

 

[JanewayRulz!]

^^ Yeah, she sounds very much like PICARD early in this ep. "Listening" to the confidence men, and leaving them temporarily on the planet due to the risk of disrupting the planet's religion, and in the end she sounds like KIRK while she plans a scam to get them away AND leave the religion intact. She just needed a deck of cards to play fizzbin to make the con complete!

As for not using the wormhole in the end, Janeway had every intention to use that wormhole. Unfortunately the security escort on Voyager let the Fernegis give him the slip and after stealing their own ship the two left Voyager. Janeway put a tractor beam on them and the Ferengi countered it in such a way it made the wormhole unsteady/unreliable. It closed (on the Ferengis) before Voyager could follow.

Janeway was an Admiral in the series finale "Endgame"... and in TNG's cinematic "Nemesis". Her effectiveness in the former is presumed and in the latter is undetermined.