The "incident" Fuller mentions in TOS that Discovery will explore
- Thread starter langdonboom
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Would have been the smarter way to play it, for sure.... post TOS aesthetics would have been easier to fit in and modernize, and its a much more wide open gap between TMP and TNG. We have no idea what the rest of the Federation was doing during that time period, and we have no idea post TUC. The beautiful refit Connie could still make appearances, to much applause. It would have been the perfect happy medium.... none of this Cage nonsense. It could still have Sarek. He could have taken in another child, after Spock left, maybe because of Amanda. If they had set it a decade or two after TUC, they could have tried to fit in any of the 4 remaining canon TOS actors, as well....
In TOS, there was an area of neutral space between the Federation and the Empire, but it was never called "The Neutral Zone." Some parts of this area would sometimes come into dispute. The terms of the Organian Peace Treaty made it possible for one side or the other to gain controlling interest in planets based on merit.
Apparently, by the time of the movies, relations between the Federation and the Klingons had broken down to the point that an actual "neutral zone" was established along similar lines as the Romulan NZ, and treaty regs then required both sides to stay out completely, as evidenced by dialog in both TWOK and TUC.
Kor
Apparently, by the time of the movies, relations between the Federation and the Klingons had broken down to the point that an actual "neutral zone" was established along similar lines as the Romulan NZ, and treaty regs then required both sides to stay out completely, as evidenced by dialog in both TWOK and TUC.
Kor
They just started calling it "the Neutral Zone" in the movies, but there's no reason to think that it didn't exist in pre-TOS times.
It's not like they planned this stuff out in advance or gave much thought to the details.
Didn't Kirk take a test at the academy involving Klingon ships in the Neutral Zone? What was that called?
It's not like they planned this stuff out in advance or gave much thought to the details.
Didn't Kirk take a test at the academy involving Klingon ships in the Neutral Zone? What was that called?
I believe it was implied the Orgainians imposed a 'no conflict'
Well, TOS - "Errand Of Mercy" was the episode where the Orgainians imposed their peace treaty on the Federation and Klingon Empire; and as things were winding down between Kor and Kirk - I believe the Orgainian was still projecting himself the the Federation and Klingon Homeworlds telling the government leadership exactly what said treaty was going to impose.
From TOS - "Errand of Mercy":
Also, we can assume Sherman's planet is IN said neutral zone based on dialogue from TOS - "The Trouble With Tribbles":
IE - it's pretty easy the "disputed area mention both in "Errand of Mercy" and "The Trouble With Tribbles" could be the area the Orgainians are monitoring and enforcing their rules for -- and since one of the rules was no conflict or open aggression by either side -- <---- I'd say that pretty much is the definition of 'Neutral Zone'.
The battle of Donatu Five was fought near here twenty three solar years ago.
I noted this as i watched this episode a few days ago with my wife in our "historical document" viewing before DSC. It's even before DSC, so there have been more than just skirmishes and border disputes.
I noted this as i watched this episode a few days ago with my wife in our "historical document" viewing before DSC. It's even before DSC, so there have been more than just skirmishes and border disputes.
Curiously, only "Tribbles" is relevant here - the others after "Errand of Mercy" involve Klingons and Feds fighting by proxy, because of "Errand of Mercy", and apparently nowhere near known and declared Klingon space. But "Tribbles" has this disputed space which is not a no-go zone for armed warships.
Of course, Sherman's Planet might simply define where the Klingon Neutral Zone goes. If Sherman's is UFP, then Kirk is not in violation of the Zone, as it runs closer to Qo'noS than Kor would like. If it's Klingon, then Kirk is a violator but Kor is not, as the KNZ in fact runs closer to Earth than Kirk would like. So until this is settled, warships roam back and forth, but with self-restraint.
Whether armed warships have the permission to be on the wrong side of the KNZ is unclear. After all, Romulan ships were often found on the wrong side of the RNZ in Picard's time, but only the act of traversing the RNZ was explicit cause for war. Perhaps a ship on the wrong side could always plead "wormhole" or "noncorporeal entity" and say they never actually crossed a single meter of the Zone, and the other party would pretend to believe in this?
Whether the Organians have anything at all to do with the Organian Peace Treaty is debatable. It's not as if they would have been interested in the Feds or the Klingons - quite to the contrary, they wanted never to hear of them, so certainly they wouldn't want to hear of them again. Whatever agreement the warring sides came to as the result of the Organian Incident may have been their very own doing from start to finish.
Timo Saloniemi
There's an ENT novel, Rosetta, which has a Neutral Zone between the Klingons and an ancient, crumbling trade alliance. The implication being that the Federation just adopts that as their zone buffering them and the Klingons.
The Klingon neutral zone was theorized in the reference material to have been created by the Organians to act as a buffer between the Federation and Klingon Empire - differing from the Romulan one in that the two powers would compete peacefully over the planets.
This is based upon that famous premise from The Trouble with Tribbles, in which it is stated that the Organians from Errand of Mercy had mandated the terms of the 'Organian Peace Treaty', as "one side or the other must prove it can develop the planet more efficiently".
However, an earlier map of it can be seen on a screen from Into Darkness:
Among other things in the video, a news report of unrest on Andoria Prime.
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Want some detailed annotations with that?
The Klingon neutral zone was theorized in the reference material to have been created by the Organians to act as a buffer between the Federation and Klingon Empire - differing from the Romulan one in that the two powers would compete peacefully over the planets.
However, an earlier map of it can be seen on a screen from Into Darkness:
Among other things in the video, a news report of unrest on Andoria Prime.
(click to enlarge)
I most certainly do - and holy shit - the Orion Union - exactly where I pictured it 
Want some detailed annotations with that?
(click to enlarge)
OMG! FASA's Makin-class Assault Ship is canon in the Kelvinverse!
Unless we consider scaling issues, perhaps. But yes, I'm very much labeling the Makin design canonical in my ship guide now and quoting Into Darkness there.
"Trouble with Tribbles" doesn't actually say the Organians had anything to do with the KNZ or the rules by which the sides fight for Sherman's. It's merely attributed to "the Organian Peace Treaty". There are peace treaties named after all sorts of places - generally not after the capitals of the winners, and indeed more typically after places being used as pawns in the conflict just concluded. And although the Geneva Peace Treaty might also be an ubiquitous expression, this does not imply the Swiss dictated the contents.
Timo Saloniemi
"Trouble with Tribbles" doesn't actually say the Organians had anything to do with the KNZ or the rules by which the sides fight for Sherman's. It's merely attributed to "the Organian Peace Treaty". There are peace treaties named after all sorts of places - generally not after the capitals of the winners, and indeed more typically after places being used as pawns in the conflict just concluded. And although the Geneva Peace Treaty might also be an ubiquitous expression, this does not imply the Swiss dictated the contents.
Timo Saloniemi
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