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The "I hate that Star Trek created ____" Thread

The point is not so much that the audience can't understand all the technobabble, but that it often just ends up slowing things down and cluttering the dialogue with lots of unnecessary scientific-sounding verbiage.
This! The Drumhead is an episode moral and justice and then, Agents Nerd and Nerdier make their "expert" report with "expert" language to explain idea like they were French sociologists.

I don't read your novels Greg and Christopher, so I don't know if you deserve to have your intrasubdermal ionic structure completely isolated from it quadriolic vibrations. :p

In a nutshell, it's the difference between:

"Captain! The engines cannot take it anymore!"

And:

"Captain! The primary matter-antimatter conversion chamber is undergoing an exponential quantum disruption cascade, resulting in a catastrophic field integrity inversion!"

As dialogue goes, I know which version I prefer! :)
I'm with you, I prefer the second! :p
 
This! The Drumhead is an episode moral and justice and then, Agents Nerd and Nerdier make their "expert" report with "expert" language to explain idea like they were French sociologists.

I don't read your novels Greg and Christopher, so I don't know if you deserve to have your intrasubdermal ionic structure completely isolated from it quadriolic vibrations. :p

In a nutshell, it's the difference between:

"Captain! The engines cannot take it anymore!"

And:

"Captain! The primary matter-antimatter conversion chamber is undergoing an exponential quantum disruption cascade, resulting in a catastrophic field integrity inversion!"

As dialogue goes, I know which version I prefer! :)
I'm with you, I prefer the second! :p

I can't see how anyone could prefer the second. It is, literally, gibberish.
 
In a nutshell, it's the difference between:

"Captain! The engines cannot take it anymore!"

And:

"Captain! The primary matter-antimatter conversion chamber is undergoing an exponential quantum disruption cascade, resulting in a catastrophic field integrity inversion!"

As dialogue goes, I know which version I prefer! :)
I'm with you, I prefer the second! :p

I can't see how anyone could prefer the second. It is, literally, gibberish.
I was being sarcastic... hence the :p
 
I don't know. The whole "Who shot J.R.?" thing was a huge national phenomenon, much more so than the Borg cliffhanger. Heck, I've never even seen a single episode of "Dallas" and I remember it being this big pop-culture event.

"Best of Both Worlds" wasn't even the biggest summer cliffhanger of 1990, when Twin Peaks had become a pop-culture phenomenon.
And Twin Peaks came up with the notion of the creator who doesn't know what he's doing.

David Lynch knew what he was doing. Just the network forced him to reveal the killer and then he said screw it.

I hate that Star Trek invented running two spinoffs of the same series at the same time.

CSI: Northwest Indiana
Law and Order: Parking Meters Unit
NCIS: Some guy's backyard in Kansas
Stargate: More unlikable characters in bizarre situations

Sorry aspiring writers, you know how hard it is to compete with existing series, pandering variety shows and reality shows? Now you also have to compete with lame imitations of existing series.

Star Trek didn't even come close to inventing this. "All in the Family," "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," and "Happy Days" beat "Star Trek" at this by at least a decade, probably more.

They had spinoffs while the original show was still running? But, were those 'Take one character and and make a new show around them' spinoffs? Those aren't quite the same thing as 'Take the exact same show in a new setting with a new group'.
 
As others have pointed out, the technobabble. It makes some parts of Voyager, TNG, or DS9 very much unbearable when they start using gibberish to explain away things. As cheesy as TOS was, I can't think of instances where they used as much technogibberish as the later shows did.
 
^ I think it's so well-remembered because didn't it have the most disappointing resolution of all time (the infamous "it was just a dream" episode)?
The "how did Bobby Ewing get into Pam's shower over a year after he died?" cliffhanger was the one where the previous season was all just some bizarre dream of Pam's. It was nice to have Patrick Duffy back on the show, but some other good storylines got erased as a result of the reset.

"Best of Both Worlds" wasn't even the biggest summer cliffhanger of 1990, when Twin Peaks had become a pop-culture phenomenon.
It was big enough that my boyfriend - someone who didn't normally fret over TV shows - called me immediately after the cliffhanger ending, all excited and saying, "I can't wait until next week!"

"You'll have to wait a bit longer than that," I told him. "This was the last show of the season. We don't get to see what happens next until September, maybe October."

He was aghast. "That's not FAIR!!!" he wailed.

:lol:

Hah! Reminds me of a friend of mine who was completely caught off-guard by the cliffhanger at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. She was caught up in the movie, not paying attention to the time, fully expecting our heroes to immediately head to Han's rescue--and then the closing credits started rolling . . . .

"Nooooo! That can't be the ending!"

We practically had to carry her out of the theater she was so stunned . . .
 
Technobabble never really bothered me. It's always designed to make the audience get the gist while making the cast seem smart. I don't have a problem with that. It's far more innocuous than things like Inception or Final Fantasy XIII where the babble IS the plot.
 
"Best of Both Worlds" wasn't even the biggest summer cliffhanger of 1990, when Twin Peaks had become a pop-culture phenomenon.
And Twin Peaks came up with the notion of the creator who doesn't know what he's doing.

David Lynch knew what he was doing. Just the network forced him to reveal the killer and then he said screw it.

I hate that Star Trek invented running two spinoffs of the same series at the same time.

CSI: Northwest Indiana
Law and Order: Parking Meters Unit
NCIS: Some guy's backyard in Kansas
Stargate: More unlikable characters in bizarre situations

Sorry aspiring writers, you know how hard it is to compete with existing series, pandering variety shows and reality shows? Now you also have to compete with lame imitations of existing series.

Star Trek didn't even come close to inventing this. "All in the Family," "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," and "Happy Days" beat "Star Trek" at this by at least a decade, probably more.

They had spinoffs while the original show was still running? But, were those 'Take one character and and make a new show around them' spinoffs? Those aren't quite the same thing as 'Take the exact same show in a new setting with a new group'.

All in the Family beget Maude and The Jeffersons at least.

Mary Tyler Moore beget Rhoda and Phyllis and (later) Lou Grant.

Happy Days beget Laverne and Shirley and Mork and Mindy and, eventually, Joanie Loves Chachi.

And these shows resembled each other at least as much as TNG and DS9 did. All in the Family and Maude, for example, were both topical sitcoms dealing with controversial issues, etc.
 
Star Trek didn't even come close to inventing this. "All in the Family," "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," and "Happy Days" beat "Star Trek" at this by at least a decade, probably more.

They had spinoffs while the original show was still running? But, were those 'Take one character and and make a new show around them' spinoffs? Those aren't quite the same thing as 'Take the exact same show in a new setting with a new group'.

I think it's a little unfair to Star Trek to characterize its spinoffs that way. DS9 was hardly the exact same show as TNG, and VGR was not at all the same show as DS9.

But yes, all the shows we've cited did have their spinoffs running simultaneously with the flagship show for at least part of their runs -- and even if they did start with spinning off one character, they were often trying to do much the same kind of show/format. For instance, Rhoda and Phyllis were sitcoms about the romantic and professional lives of young single women just as much as The Mary Tyler Moore Show was, and The Jeffersons was built around its loudmouthed, bigoted, opinionated lead grouch and the extended family that challenged/balanced him just as much as All in the Family was.

Also, the three Paul Henning sitcoms I mentioned were not spinoffs in the "take an existing character and build a show around him/her" sense; they all focused on distinct, original characters but simply shared a common universe. Petticoat Junction introduced the town of Hooterville, which was later used as the setting of Green Acres, and characters from PJ often made guest appearances on GA or The Beverly Hillbillies.

TV networks have always thrived on imitation. If a show has a successful formula, networks want to copy it. That's usually the incentive behind spinoffs -- to try to repeat an earlier success. The characters may be different, but the desire to make the format as similar as possible is hardly a recent innovation.

Heck, this goes back as far as radio. Fibber McGee and Molly, a beloved radio sitcom from 1935-59, spun off another classic show, The Great Gildersleeve, which ran from 1941-57, as well as Beulah from 1945-54, focusing on the McGees' maid. There was also a Beulah TV series from 1950-52; both the radio and TV versions were the first sitcoms in their respective media with black lead actors. Fibber, Molly, and their supporting cast also appeared in several feature films, the first two of which were crossovers with Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy.
 
All in the Family beget Maude and The Jeffersons at least.
And Maude begat Good Times...a spinoff of a spinoff. And I had to look it up to be sure, but The Jeffersons had a short-lived spinoff starring Florence called Checking In. Also amongst the direct spinoffs of All in the Family would be Gloria; and possibly Archie Bunker's Place, depending on whether you count that as its own show or a name change.
 
The motherlode for TV spinoffs and crossovers:

http://poobala.com/crossoverlist.html

Greg, Happy Days was itself a spinoff of a segment of the anthology sitcom Love, American Style, and its extended universe also included a short-lived sitcom called Blansky's Beauties (with Nancy Walker as Howard Cunningham's cousin and Pat Morita reprising his Arnold role from HD) and another called Out of the Blue, an attempt to repeat the Mork and Mindy formula with an angel rather than an alien.
 
The motherlode for TV spinoffs and crossovers:

http://poobala.com/crossoverlist.html

Greg, Happy Days was itself a spinoff of a segment of the anthology sitcom Love, American Style, and its extended universe also included a short-lived sitcom called Blansky's Beauties (with Nancy Walker as Howard Cunningham's cousin and Pat Morita reprising his Arnold role from HD) and another called Out of the Blue, an attempt to repeat the Mork and Mindy formula with an angel rather than an alien.

Yep, I remember that Love American Style segment: "Love and the Happy Days"--which I suspect may have been a backdoor pilot for the later TV series.

And, as noted, the movies were doing spin-offs long before TV. The 1947 romantic comedy The Egg and I spun off a long-running series of movies starring "Ma and Pa Kettle," who had been colorful supporting characters in the first movie.

In our enthusiasm, there's a tendency to credit Star Trek with questionable "firsts": the first interracial kiss, the first use of the word "hell" on network TV, the first sophisticated sci-fi show, the first season cliffhanger, the first show to bet multiple simultaneous spin-offs, etc. But, more often than not, this require a fair amount of tunnel vision!
 
Was the first interracial kiss not true? Trek tends to get credit for that even outside of Trek circles.
 
Was the first interracial kiss not true? Trek tends to get credit for that even outside of Trek circles.

That's because it's been repeated so many times that lazy journalists just cite it automatically every time they have to write an article on Star Trek. At this point, it's something that everybody "knows" so it's seldom questioned.

In reality, however, it comes with a lot of asterisks. At best, it's the "first kiss between a Caucasian and an African-American on a prime-time, scripted drama on a major American network."

It's only the first interracial kiss on TV if you ignore variety shows, British shows, Hispanics, and Asians.

Heck, even "Elaan of Troyius" predates the famous Kirk/Uhura kiss in "Plato's Step-Children." (France Nuyen is Vietnamese-French.) And what about Ricardo Montalban kissing Madlyn Rhue in "Space Seed"?

Which is not to say that the Kirk/Uhura kiss was not very brave and daring and important. But it's been over-hyped a bit over the years.

See Memory Alpha on the subject:

"This episode has long been famous for featuring "the first interracial kiss on American network television". To be more precise, it was "the first kiss between a fictional white male and a fictional black female to premiere on American network television", as Kirk would kiss an Asian-American actress, France Nuyen, in a previously recorded (but later aired) episode, "Elaan of Troyius". Almost a year earlier (11 December 1967), NBC broadcast an Emmy Award-winning musical-variety special entitled Movin' With Nancy, during which singers Nancy Sinatra and Sammy Davis, Jr. greeted each other with a kiss. [1] Desilu's flagship show, I Love Lucy, had years previously broken the barrier on Hispanic/Caucasian kissing; of course, since "Hispanic" is an ethnicity and not a race, there can be an argument on whether Desi Arnaz is or can be considered a white or non-white Hispanic. Also, The Little Rascals had some "innocent" kisses between its child stars, but these shorts, under the title Our Gang, had previously premiered in cinemas; and, David McCallum would kiss an Asian American actress in the 1966 Man from U.N.C.L.E episode, The Her Master's Voice Affair."
 
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Spinoffs have always been a huge part of TV cross-promotion strategy but they didn't give two shows the exact same name with different things after the colon. That's a precedent that has taken the burden of at least having to give shows their own identity off of the networks.
 
I don't know if it was from George Takei or another Asian-American actor working in those days, but there were still some taboos. White men could kiss black women, Asian women, whatever. Asian men could romance anyone except white women.
 
I do dislike the end-of-season cliffhanger angle on television (personally I prefer my shows to have season finales that draw a line under things, also good to take into account just in case the show gets cancelled). But no, I must agree with the consensus in this thread that Star Trek neither created the concept, nor is really seen as popularizing it either (not by anybody outside of Trek fandom anyway :D ;)). Most articles I see about television that mention this kind of thing start and stop at "Who Shot J.R?", with no mention at all of BOBW.

On the other hand, within the franchise alone, I do despise that The Best of Both Worlds created a template that both The Next Generation and Voyager hammered into the ground, the annual end-of-season-put-the-characters-in-inescapable-jeopardy-even-though-we-all-know-they'll-get-through-just-fine shindig. It all reached a fever pitch IMO with Voyager's Unimatrix Zero two-parter, where I just felt it was like "Really? They expect us to buy into all this? Really?" :shifty:
 
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