Here in Germany most films in the 3 hour category have an intermission (in most cinema chains at least), I thought that was more or less the case everywhere...
The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies Grade/Discuss (Spoilers)
- Thread starter DimesDan
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Here in Germany most films in the 3 hour category have an intermission (in most cinema chains at least), I thought that was more or less the case everywhere...
The same here in the Netherlands
A very rare occurrence in North America these days, though it was once a common practice, particularly in the 1950s and 1960s when such films were more common than the following few decades. The resurgence of 3hr+ films in the past 15-20 years has not been accompanied by a return of the intermission.
Bleeding Cool posted a review of a fan edit of the first two films and says greatly approving things of it, but the review doesn't say who made it or how to find it.
Finally had a chance to sit down and watch all 6 LOTR and Hobbit films.
*sigh*
It does seem that the Hobbit Trilogy are to the LOTR trilogy what the Star Wars Prequels are to Star Wars Original Trilogy.
I will say, while I like the Hobbit trilogy, they suffer primarily from a bloated run time and an overindulgence on Peter Jackson's part. The story could've succinctly told in two 2 hour and 40 minute movies. Not 8+ hours in 3 movies.
If I had to rank them, it would look like
1. Desolation of Smaug: Good flick and easily the best of the 3. If only the 6 minute scene of Smaug frying Lake Town was added to the end of this film, then I'd call this a great film.
2. Battle of the Five Armies: Ok. Runs a little long, despite being the shortest LOTR/Hobbit film at 2 hours and 24; given all that happens is a long protracted fight scene.
3. An Unexpected Journey: Lame. Overindulgence on display in full here. Bilbo doesn't leave the Shire until 56-58 minutes into the movie and the troll scene makes the hour and a half mark and that's only half of the movie's run time! Gah!!!
Ranking all 6 LOTR/Hobbit movies and it looks like.
1. Fellowship of The Ring
2. The Two Towers
3. Desolation of Smaug
4. Return of the King
5. Battle of the Five Armies
6. An Unexpected Journey
For the lols i'll add my ranking of the Star Wars movies
1. A New Hope: Great adventure and can be ended by the film's conclusion.
2. Empire Strikes Back: In 2nd by a nose However this one interchanges with ANH constantly.
3. Revenge of of The Sith: A strong ending to a weak trilogy.
4. Return of the Jedi: A weak ending to a strong trilogy.
5. Attack of the Clones: Has all the things we want to see in a Star Wars film but doesn't come together all the way. Mostly due to the lack of Clone Wars battles. But we have the 2 animated shows for that.
6. The Phantom Menace: Lucas lets his creativity run amok here. Some ideas are cool but ultimately the film is about nothing.
*sigh*
It does seem that the Hobbit Trilogy are to the LOTR trilogy what the Star Wars Prequels are to Star Wars Original Trilogy.
I will say, while I like the Hobbit trilogy, they suffer primarily from a bloated run time and an overindulgence on Peter Jackson's part. The story could've succinctly told in two 2 hour and 40 minute movies. Not 8+ hours in 3 movies.
If I had to rank them, it would look like
1. Desolation of Smaug: Good flick and easily the best of the 3. If only the 6 minute scene of Smaug frying Lake Town was added to the end of this film, then I'd call this a great film.
2. Battle of the Five Armies: Ok. Runs a little long, despite being the shortest LOTR/Hobbit film at 2 hours and 24; given all that happens is a long protracted fight scene.
3. An Unexpected Journey: Lame. Overindulgence on display in full here. Bilbo doesn't leave the Shire until 56-58 minutes into the movie and the troll scene makes the hour and a half mark and that's only half of the movie's run time! Gah!!!
Ranking all 6 LOTR/Hobbit movies and it looks like.
1. Fellowship of The Ring
2. The Two Towers
3. Desolation of Smaug
4. Return of the King
5. Battle of the Five Armies
6. An Unexpected Journey
For the lols i'll add my ranking of the Star Wars movies
1. A New Hope: Great adventure and can be ended by the film's conclusion.
2. Empire Strikes Back: In 2nd by a nose However this one interchanges with ANH constantly.
3. Revenge of of The Sith: A strong ending to a weak trilogy.
4. Return of the Jedi: A weak ending to a strong trilogy.
5. Attack of the Clones: Has all the things we want to see in a Star Wars film but doesn't come together all the way. Mostly due to the lack of Clone Wars battles. But we have the 2 animated shows for that.
6. The Phantom Menace: Lucas lets his creativity run amok here. Some ideas are cool but ultimately the film is about nothing.
My order would be:
1. Desolation
2. An Unexpected Journey
3. The Battle of the Five Armies
Desolation is paced well, and it's compelling.
Journey has some bad pacing issues (I suspect that the theatrical cut was loaded with material intended for the extended edition as a consequence of the late decision to expand from two films to three), but there's charm to the Bag End scenes, and there's a genuine character arc (Bilbo's evolution from homebody to adventurer).
Five Armies is tedious. The battle doesn't have the same gravitas that Helm's Deep or Pelennor Fields had; until late stages the battle involves people we don't know and the action looks like large faceless masses of CGI, and when it does affect characters we know it descends into a series of video game boss fights. I expand on it more at my blog.
^ This is what happens when you try to stretch 5 pages from a book (the actual length of the Battle of the Five armies in the novel) in to a 2 hour and 24 minute film.
HISHE and Honest Trailers rip the film a new one. Now all we have to wait is for CinemaSins to do their review.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZm_Zth0rhw[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4xxym2tyEM[/yt]
HISHE and Honest Trailers rip the film a new one. Now all we have to wait is for CinemaSins to do their review.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZm_Zth0rhw[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4xxym2tyEM[/yt]
It's only 5 pages in the book because Bilbo gets knocked out and misses the whole thing. It would be far more disappointing if the movie had followed the book and just skipped the whole battle.
Pages upon pages of describing a battle which the reader already knew was going to be a victory for the good guys would have much less effective, narratively speaking.
Instead, the battle plan is outlined and then <BOOM> Bilbo wakes up and finds the plan was a success, hooray! Then he discovers the consequences of the victory...
Instead, the battle plan is outlined and then <BOOM> Bilbo wakes up and finds the plan was a success, hooray! Then he discovers the consequences of the victory...
All the more reason why the ideal solution would have been to pull a "Scouring of the Shire" and omit the battle completely, thereby keeping The Hobbit to two films.
My wife and I have been going back and forth with this film, and discussing where it fails. Here is a quick list of my thoughts:
The Good:
I love the characters in this film, for the most part. Thranduil and Thorin are among my favorites, and get some great moments in their respective kingdoms. I especially love when Thranduil talks to Bilbo, as well as Bilbo, Gandalf and Bard's reaction.
I thoroughly enjoyed the battle at Dol Guldur and Elrond's moment of absolute epic strength. Definitely interesting dynamic versus the usual sword against sword battle.
Finally, I thoroughly enjoyed the visuals of this film, especially Smaug. The burning of Lake Town is an incredible sight to be realized on screen, and carries a heavier weight that I think is accomplished quite well. The final battle between Azog and Thorin also works quite well, as Azog feels very real and in that moment there is a real menace to him.
The bad:
*sigh*
The focus of the film is all over the place. As interesting the characters are, the film focuses too much on Legolas and Tauriel, and their meandering adventures all over Gundubad, and Dale, and Ravenhill, that it takes the film down in its pacing. It distracts from the the plight of the Dwarves, and the introduction of Dain, as well as the aftermath of the battle.
The ending is frustrating because it just ends. Unlike ROTK, which goes on forever, BOT5A, just stops, with no resolution, and no sense of the impact on Bilbo. It relies too heavily on the viewer knowing the LOTR films to filll in those gaps.
The love triangle between Tauriel, Legolas and Fili is just, to be blunt, shoved in there for no reason. Tauriel's character takes her from skilled warrior to blubbering love-struck female who gives away a tactical position and nearly gets herself killed. The whole tone of the fight gets deflated in that moment.
There is a lot of wasted potential here, especially with the company of Dwarves who we get to know over AUJ and DOS only to be left in the shadows for the sake of unnecessary characters and moments. There is more, but I think that sums it up.
The Good:
I love the characters in this film, for the most part. Thranduil and Thorin are among my favorites, and get some great moments in their respective kingdoms. I especially love when Thranduil talks to Bilbo, as well as Bilbo, Gandalf and Bard's reaction.
I thoroughly enjoyed the battle at Dol Guldur and Elrond's moment of absolute epic strength. Definitely interesting dynamic versus the usual sword against sword battle.
Finally, I thoroughly enjoyed the visuals of this film, especially Smaug. The burning of Lake Town is an incredible sight to be realized on screen, and carries a heavier weight that I think is accomplished quite well. The final battle between Azog and Thorin also works quite well, as Azog feels very real and in that moment there is a real menace to him.
The bad:
*sigh*
The focus of the film is all over the place. As interesting the characters are, the film focuses too much on Legolas and Tauriel, and their meandering adventures all over Gundubad, and Dale, and Ravenhill, that it takes the film down in its pacing. It distracts from the the plight of the Dwarves, and the introduction of Dain, as well as the aftermath of the battle.
The ending is frustrating because it just ends. Unlike ROTK, which goes on forever, BOT5A, just stops, with no resolution, and no sense of the impact on Bilbo. It relies too heavily on the viewer knowing the LOTR films to filll in those gaps.
The love triangle between Tauriel, Legolas and Fili is just, to be blunt, shoved in there for no reason. Tauriel's character takes her from skilled warrior to blubbering love-struck female who gives away a tactical position and nearly gets herself killed. The whole tone of the fight gets deflated in that moment.
There is a lot of wasted potential here, especially with the company of Dwarves who we get to know over AUJ and DOS only to be left in the shadows for the sake of unnecessary characters and moments. There is more, but I think that sums it up.
They didn't have to omit the battle. The battle just needed a lot of the fat trimmed. The entirety of the movie is a premable to a large battle and then at the hour and 10 minute mark, the battle starts. Ending 50 minutes later. Had the Hobbit been just two films, and the final battle topped at 30 minutes, that would make a great finale.
If these were the extended cuts, I don't think anyone would have a problem. But for theatrical... they are in much need of deflation.
BUT it did give us this lovely song. Sung by the ever amazing, multi-talented Billy Boyd
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8ir8rVl2Z4[/yt]
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Let me throw some LOTR timeline magic atcha:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_Arda#
Things move slowly in Middle Earth sometimes. Deal w/it.
I thought it was okay to rent.
-Thorin coming back from dragon sickness was just as bad as Tony Stark recovering from anxiety attacks.
- The scene with Sauron IMO just feels out of place.
-They couldn't add a few more minutes to "Desolation?" That would have squeezed Smaugs defeat into one movie.
The characters are spouting off unfamiliar phrases that would sound gibberish to the General audience
Just reading a description of the scene is confusing. Lots of new terms I was not familiar with.
Ultimately all you come out of the movie with just the idea of
"Five armies want to claim that mountain for various reasons"
and then tying up loose ends with Smaug and Sauron sprinkled in between giant CGI battles and hundreds of extras running
-Thorin coming back from dragon sickness was just as bad as Tony Stark recovering from anxiety attacks.
- The scene with Sauron IMO just feels out of place.
-They couldn't add a few more minutes to "Desolation?" That would have squeezed Smaugs defeat into one movie.
The characters are spouting off unfamiliar phrases that would sound gibberish to the General audience
Just reading a description of the scene is confusing. Lots of new terms I was not familiar with.
-Tauriel. Why was she even in the movie? Her final scene adds nothing since we'll never see her again for resolution.
Ultimately all you come out of the movie with just the idea of
"Five armies want to claim that mountain for various reasons"
and then tying up loose ends with Smaug and Sauron sprinkled in between giant CGI battles and hundreds of extras running
<<-They couldn't add a few more minutes to "Desolation?" That would have squeezed Smaugs defeat into one movie. >>
The concern is that the general audience viewed the point of the story as defeating the dragon, and why would they come back for a third movie if that already happened?
The concern is that the general audience viewed the point of the story as defeating the dragon, and why would they come back for a third movie if that already happened?
I was surprised that the second movie went as far as it did to be honest.
They would come back for the battle to gain control of the mountain next.
Smaug is finished in part two. At the end thorin could say "now we must defend our home from invaders"
Slowly pull back the camera to reveal armies marching in
"End credits"