The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers)

[Mach5]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey/

They didn't exactly trash it, but you're gonna hear the word "but" a lot.

Mike kinda shat on LOTR novels, though. He actually said he couldn't get pass the page 50. Something about Tolkien's excessive use of the word "fortnight"

As for the HFR, they both agreed it looked like "absolute garbage".

 

[Saul]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Saw the movie yesterday. 48fps is off putting and I hate the thought that every 48fps movie my eyes will have to take time to adjust before it feels normal.

The movie itself is nice and done as I imagine but for a large scale movie it's lacking a bigger villainous presence that the LOTR films had. I echo what others have said that this feels like the extended version already. Can you imagine how long the bluray will be..

I haven't read the book, but is Gandalf coming to the rescue at the last minute going to be a continual thing? Because by the third time it happened in this movie it was already starting to seem a bit ridiculous.

Pretty much. But by the time they hit Mirkwood he buggers off on some important business. So movie 2 will have our characters screwed for most of it.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Did you miss the parts where Gandalf sends messages to the eagles via insects? (a moth and a butterfly, respectively)

He meant that in the books they happened to be there, while in the films they were summoned by Gandalf.

Actually, if memory serves, in Fellowship of the Ring (the novel, not the film), Gwaihir rescues Gandalf from Orthanc because Radagast asked Gwaihir to report to Gandalf on the movements of Sauron's forces and Gandalf had informed Radagast that he was on his way to consult with Saruman regarding the overall situation, so Gwaihir knew to look for Gandalf at Isengard. So, while Gandalf didn't summon Gwaihir directly in the novel, it also wasn't just a coincidence.

I stand corrected on that count. However, my point remains the same: Gandalf didn't summon them and the eagles only helped because they were in the area.

Also, is there some kind of explanation in the books as to why the giant eagles don't just fly Gandalf and the gang all the way to their destination? Like maybe they aren't able to leave a certain area? Or they don't want to get too close and risk the dragon sensing them?

I believe the Eagles are direct servants of god, like the Wizards, and so only help the heroes enough to get them to the next stage of their development.

The problem lies also lies with how Peter Jackson depicts the Eagles' rescues in both the trilogy and The Hobbit. In the trilogy, Gwaihir rescues Gandalf from Orthanc because he happens to passing by the area, not because he was summoned by Gandalf. Additionally, in The Hobbit, the eagles only happened to be in the area and decided to help out, and again, they were not summoned by Gandalf. In each case, there's a certain reluctance on their part to help out and only helped out in a limited manner and out of favor to Radagast, neither of which is clear in Fellowship of the Ring or An Unexpected Journey.

Um, each time Gandalf in the films needs help from the Eagles, he get's a moth, whispers something and then they appear. It happened at Orthanic, it happened at the Black Gate and it happened when they were in "the frying pan" so each time, they were summoned by Gandalf.

As JarodRussell already pointed out, I was referring to the books. Sorry I wasn't clear.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I gave it an A+.

I loved the LOTR movies and while I was delighted that Jackson was returning to Middle Earth. But I was fully prepared to be disappointed by LOTR. I didn't like the look of the dwarves in the promos. I'd heard bad reports of the 48r. And the padding out of the story seemed a bad omen - sometimes less is more. And I'd seen some so-so reviews.

But my doubts were unwarranted. When I went to see the movie today, I was tired, I was wet, I was hungry (skipped lunch to see it) and cold. My friend who I was supposed to go see it with couldn't make it, so I went alone. And yet, none of that mattered as I sat enthralled for nearly 3 hours.

Yes, it could have done with some trimming and the 48 thingy was distracting at times, for reasons others have undoubtedly explained - though when it was good, it was very good. But ultimately, the movie was a blast, a wonderful return to Middle Earth. Martin Freeman was as good as ever and subtly yet recognisably channelled Ian Holm.

I would put this on a par with Fellowship; like it, it wasn't perfect but was a great introduction. And like FOTR, it left you wanting more and knowing the best was to come.

 

[Davros]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I'm glad the movie stayed true to the Denny's Menu.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

FWIW, I don't think this movie was necessarily padded to make it three movies. I think the Radagast and White Council scenes would have been cut, but that's it. Rather, fear about padding is most related to the next two.

 

[Mike Farley]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I'd say they definitely not just could have, but should have cut the Old Bilbo/Frodo sequence.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Just got back from seeing the 48fps version and I have to say I didn't see any improvement and was very distracted whenever there was any find of fast movement (although I eventually got use to it). Not really seeing the benefit ever doing 48fps. But then I say the same thing about 3D...

Now that I've seen the film a second time, I have to turn a more critical eye on it. There were several things this time around that really bothered me about the film:

1. As already mentioned by others (including myself), the slapstick action that one would expect from a Wile E. Coyote cartoon. The worse perpetrators of this were the Company falling through the trap door, Bilbo falling through the crack, and the Company sliding down the gorge and crushed by the Goblin King at the end.

2. The ending could have been much tighter. There was no need for worthless face-off between Thorin and Azog, other than to show Bilbo's worth in Thorin's eyes but I feel like there was no need for that yet. After the long action sequence underneath the Misty Mountains, the added drawn out action in the trees quickly becomes tiresome. It would have been far better for them to be chased up the trees, the fire gets started, everything looks dire, and then suddenly the eagles save the day. End the film with the same final closing scene (Bilbo can prove his worth in smaller way, I guess while up in the trees like knocking down a warg that would have otherwise gotten Thorin or another dwarf).

3. I really hate to say this, but unlike the previous films, I feel like there was only a series of great of moments instead of a continuous stream of great storytelling. There were some moments where I felt like I was waiting for a scene to end in order to get to the part I knew I enjoyed. "Yes, yes, enough of the orcs and wargs chasing the Company, let's get to Rivendell with Cheery Elrond and the White Council already!" or "Hurry up and get to the Riddles in the Dark." Whereas in the previous films, there were only a few scenes I felt like I wanted to quickly move through (usually anything involving Arwen).

This all being said, however, I still enjoy the film immensely and don't think its overpadded at all (with the exception of the climax as already described). Martin Freeman is the heart and soul of the film (stealing all of Ian McKellan's thunder), and whenever it's focused on him, the film shines.

Incidentally, I think Cheery Elrond and the White Council would make for an awesome band name.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Given that this is a fantastical setting I was somewhat distracted by the rather elaborate and over-the-top falls and such our characters fell through and survived. A lot of just seemed way over the top. These guys must have some massive bonuses to their saving throws on Reflex because, DAMN most of these falls and stuff were just absurd.

I did love the bit with Bilbo finding his ring and his little riddle game with Golumn.

 

[JD]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I just saw this with my mom this morning and I loved it and she liked it. I decided to do the 48f version, and I really liked it. I loved how clear and smooth it was.
As for the movie itself, I don't really have any big complaints. My only real concern going in was how well the added stuff was going to integrated into Bilbo and the Dwarves story, but I thought it was done perfectly. If I didn't know it was added going in I would have just assumed that was all in the original novel. I give it an A+ and my mom gives it an A (I just voted for myself, so her A isn't in the poll).

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

2. The ending could have been much tighter. There was no need for worthless face-off between Thorin and Azog, other than to show Bilbo's worth in Thorin's eyes but I feel like there was no need for that yet. After the long action sequence underneath the Misty Mountains, the added drawn out action in the trees quickly becomes tiresome. It would have been far better for them to be chased up the trees, the fire gets started, everything looks dire, and then suddenly the eagles save the day. End the film with the same final closing scene (Bilbo can prove his worth in smaller way, I guess while up in the trees like knocking down a warg that would have otherwise gotten Thorin or another dwarf).

I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion, the scene you're talking about is the one that shows how much Bilbo has learned during the first part of his adventure. It ties up the themes of this movie and gives the viewer a sense of closure which was badly needed in order to turn this into a proper movie rather than the first segment of a three-part serial.

If I have to wait a full year for the second installment, I need to feel like I've had a satisfyingly complete experience, even though the whole story has not been told. The "oh yeah irrelevant stuff happens oh my god it's been three hours already let's end this" approach simply wouldn't have worked.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

The look and demeanor of Bilbo in this reminded me of James Wilson (Robert Sean Leonard) in "House."

 

[sidious618]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I found Bilbo to be a much more interesting character than either Frodo or Sam in the LotR films.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I found Bilbo to be a much more interesting character than either Frodo or Sam in the LotR films.

Ditto. A homebody safe and comfortable in his house, concerned about its looks and doilies, afraid to go out into the world and into adventure. Suddenly thrust to change his entire way of life and thinking. Good story.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I found Bilbo to be a much more interesting character than either Frodo or Sam in the LotR films.

I think it's fair to say that Bilbo is one of the best, most distinctive characters created by Tolkien.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

2. The ending could have been much tighter. There was no need for worthless face-off between Thorin and Azog, other than to show Bilbo's worth in Thorin's eyes but I feel like there was no need for that yet. After the long action sequence underneath the Misty Mountains, the added drawn out action in the trees quickly becomes tiresome. It would have been far better for them to be chased up the trees, the fire gets started, everything looks dire, and then suddenly the eagles save the day. End the film with the same final closing scene (Bilbo can prove his worth in smaller way, I guess while up in the trees like knocking down a warg that would have otherwise gotten Thorin or another dwarf).

I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion, the scene you're talking about is the one that shows how much Bilbo has learned during the first part of his adventure. It ties up the themes of this movie and gives the viewer a sense of closure which was badly needed in order to turn this into a proper movie rather than the first segment of a three-part serial.

If I have to wait a full year for the second installment, I need to feel like I've had a satisfyingly complete experience, even though the whole story has not been told. The "oh yeah irrelevant stuff happens oh my god it's been three hours already let's end this" approach simply wouldn't have worked.

I understand and agree with the thematic angle but I feel like it was very poorly executed. Like I said, the scene came on the heels of a long action sequence and barely had any time to recover. I know it's "Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire" but I strongly feel that the sequence needed to be much shorter. Again, as I said, Bilbo could have still fulfilled the thematic need in a smaller way instead of the drawn out scenario that we got.

The look and demeanor of Bilbo in this reminded me of James Wilson (Rover Sean Leonard) in "House."

Funny, because the look and demeanor of Bilbo in this reminded me of John Watson.

I found Bilbo to be a much more interesting character than either Frodo or Sam in the LotR films.

I found Bilbo to be a much more interesting character than either Frodo or Sam in the LotR films.

I think it's fair to say that Bilbo is one of the best, most distinctive characters created by Tolkien.

I have to completely agree on these two points, and while Tolkien deserves a lot of credit on this, Martin Freeman makes Bilbo all the greater.

 

[sidious618]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I also found Bilbo's speech about helping the dwarfs find a home to be particularly moving because he doesn't have to do it. Frodo and Sam pretty much had to do their journey because they were saving the world. Bilbo doesn't but heads into danger anyway. Much more inspiring, I think.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I also found Bilbo's speech about helping the dwarfs find a home to be particularly moving because he doesn't have to do it. Frodo and Sam pretty much had to do their journey because they were saving the world. Bilbo doesn't but heads into danger anyway. Much more inspiring, I think.

Very good point. I quite liked that moment, too. Sandwiched between big action set-pieces, the film (and Bilbo) definitely needed to find (and explicitly express) a heart. As important as Bilbo's "heroic act" to save Thorin is, in terms of his character's growth, I think this scene was more significant.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

Yeah, I agree. It thematically summed up the journey very well. Technically speaking, Bilbo's heroics are during the Spiders, but it logically makes sense to be at the end of the first movie.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Re: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers

I understand and agree with the thematic angle but I feel like it was very poorly executed. Like I said, the scene came on the heels of a long action sequence and barely had any time to recover. I know it's "Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire" but I strongly feel that the sequence needed to be much shorter. Again, as I said, Bilbo could have still fulfilled the thematic need in a smaller way instead of the drawn out scenario that we got.

To be honest, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't think that the little coda on the cliff at the end of the movie is longer than three minutes. What could have been cut to make it shorter?

I have to completely agree on these two points, and while Tolkien deserves a lot of credit on this, Martin Freeman makes Bilbo all the greater.

And Peter Jackson as well. Casting Martin Freeman was a stroke of genius. Because although he has a lot of charisma and screen presence, perfect comic timing and is a very skilled physical actor, he doesn't have a lot or range so he mostly shines when he's a perfect match for the role.