Spoilers The Handmaid's Tale (TV series)
- Thread starter Skipper
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Well someone had to prepare them for what was to come and what they had to do.....
True, she is an animal indeed..... after waiting 2 years for the 4th season, watching the 4th kinda softened my heart and because 2 years have passed I kinda forgot the atrocities she did against the girls ....
I guess you need to watch the entire show from the beginning till the end, to keep hating her as she "deserves" (or was created in order to be hated).
Gaius Helen Mohiam had more like a stone heart but using the Gom Jabar made her "the same animal" as Aunt Lydia
I don't say Mohiam isn't stone-cold. She's absolutely all for the Cause - the breeding program intended to create the Kwisatz Haderach, which they continue, even knowing what Paul is. That's why Margot Fenring is sent to seduce Feyd-Rautha and conceive a daughter. The Bene Gesserit want his genes preserved, and they still want a Kwisatz Haderach they can control.Well someone had to prepare them for what was to come and what they had to do.....
True, she is an animal indeed..... after waiting 2 years for the 4th season, watching the 4th kinda softened my heart and because 2 years have passed I kinda forgot the atrocities she did against the girls ....
I guess you need to watch the entire show from the beginning till the end, to keep hating her as she "deserves" (or was created in order to be hated).
Gaius Helen Mohiam had more like a stone heart but using the Gom Jabar made her "the same animal" as Aunt Lydia
As for Lydia... I've read the novel at least a couple of dozen times over the years. I've seen the 1990 movie more times than I can remember (twice in its original theatrical run). I've seen the first season about 3 times, and the second twice.
Via clips and the review channels on YT I have a thorough grounding of the 3rd and 4th seasons.
So I know this series pretty well.
Lydia, in my opinion, is not any sort of sympathetic character. If you read The Testaments, you'll note that her backstory in that novel doesn't match the backstory in the TV series. I might have had a smidgeon of sympathy if they'd used the novel backstory in the TV series (she got so vicious because Aunt's training was basically "kill/torture or be killed"), but the TV version walked into this willingly, not as a means to save herself from being executed by a fellow Aunt).
There's speculation that Season 5 will have a time jump into The Testaments, 15 years later. That would take June out of the show, as she's only referred to in the 2nd novel, and is not an active character.
I dunno if Elisabeth Moss can go that long without those snarling, scowling, teeth-bared closeups with her face 2 inches from the camera.
Just wondering because I haven't seen yet Denis Villeneuve's new Dune, so I'm eager to see his creation.... I did see the one from 1984 made by Lynch which was a bit different than I imagined after reading the Dune books.
Anyway Lynch says his film wasn't quite a success because in the end he didn't had the necessary money to finalize some scenes and he had to shoot those in a cheaper way.
I do think though Denis Villeneuve's Dune will be better, but I think choosing Timothee Chalamet for Paul Muad'Dib's role was not quite the best choice.
In my opinion he's a great actor but a bit "immature" for this particular role.
Well, there are many differing opinions of this movie, but I think it's best to discuss them in the Dune thread, so we don't go off-topic here (warning: I'm in the midst of a rather tense argument with a couple of people in that thread).
I know, but we were just comparing Aunt Lydia from the Handmaid's Tale with Helen Mohiam from Dune
Thx. for the heads up anyway
I do believe though Aunt Lydia was slightly warmer lol
She wasn't using the Gom Jabar, but the "electrical stick"
The gom jabbar kills instantly, with poison.
The cattle prod could kill, depending on where it's used, and for how long.
It is an interesting thing to compare these two characters, though.
The cattle prod could kill, depending on where it's used, and for how long.
It is an interesting thing to compare these two characters, though.
Ah, I found the bit of the cartoon I was talking about: "Billboard Frolics" from 1935
The Dancing Handmaids is at the 1:50 mark approximately.
You mention a group of muslim protestors shaming a woman into wearing a burkha.
Was the ones yelling at her to get dressed, a man or a woman?
Muslim society is very repressive, but from the news, it's often the women pushing it.
It's not the men hauling daughters off for their "Clitoral Circumcisions.
Apparently it's the mothers and grandmothers.
Weird!
The Dancing Handmaids is at the 1:50 mark approximately.
You mention a group of muslim protestors shaming a woman into wearing a burkha.
Was the ones yelling at her to get dressed, a man or a woman?
Muslim society is very repressive, but from the news, it's often the women pushing it.
It's not the men hauling daughters off for their "Clitoral Circumcisions.
Apparently it's the mothers and grandmothers.
Weird!
Re-read my post.
The garment involved was a niqab, not a burka. They are different garments. It was a woman who yelled at her, but it could easily have been a man as both were present.
I'm aware of FGM, thank you. Fortunately it's illegal in North America and is sometimes successfully used as a reason for requesting asylum.
And now I'm a bit over the whole 'splaining thing, and would like to go back to my Doctor Who fanfic.
Out of curiosity and, I dunno, just needing to get into something "new" I decided to check this series out. I'm about half way through the first season and, well, it's interesting. I think Elisabeth Moss really makes it work, but the whole cast is great.
The premise and everything about is disturbing, as it's supposed to be, because they're things that have happened, do happen, and continue to happen and given the setting and "recent" events... It's just unsettling to think about. It really almost feels like we're on a precipice.
But, I like it. It's hard to say if it's "entertaining" because of the content, but it's certainly interesting.
The premise and everything about is disturbing, as it's supposed to be, because they're things that have happened, do happen, and continue to happen and given the setting and "recent" events... It's just unsettling to think about. It really almost feels like we're on a precipice.
But, I like it. It's hard to say if it's "entertaining" because of the content, but it's certainly interesting.
I guess you haven't read the novel. It's different from the series in a few important ways.
Nope, haven't read the novel.
I just finished the second season and, well, okay. I'm still liking I'm just confused about something...
What happened after June and Nick at the house she reunited with Hannah in?
They all just got back home, Nick's there and, "Oh there was a misunderstanding."
I mean, there's a LOT of questions on what happened and what the "story" is to prevent everyone, including Nick, from getting into serious trouble from TPTB I don't care how "powerful" and influential this Commander is. There's a LOT of questions.
But, it's a good-enough series.
What happened after June and Nick at the house she reunited with Hannah in?
They all just got back home, Nick's there and, "Oh there was a misunderstanding."
I mean, there's a LOT of questions on what happened and what the "story" is to prevent everyone, including Nick, from getting into serious trouble from TPTB I don't care how "powerful" and influential this Commander is. There's a LOT of questions.
But, it's a good-enough series.
That's one of the things that's frustrated the fans. It's a case of the writers writing themselves into a corner and then moving a goalpost to get themselves out of it.
All I can say is... Nick is a double agent who is also in contact with Mayday. He has wiggle-room. And June, as the star of the show, has plot armor (holy crap, does she eventually have plot armor!).
Here's a counter-question. You'll have seen the Particicution, in which the Handmaids killed a man with their bare hands. Was anyone stoned in that scene?
Assuming you said "no", you would be right. But you would not believe the number of people on various YT review comment sections who have sworn up, down, and sideways that they stoned the man. Even when I provide a clip of that scene to prove that nobody was stoned, they still tell me I'm wrong.
That, and as the series goes on, nobody seems to be able to figure out how long a pregnancy takes. Gilead has existed for longer than stated, and June herself doesn't seem to remember how many years it's been (she says 5, but that's obviously wrong, when you consider the dialogue in season 1, and start adding up the pregnancies and time allowed for breastfeeding, plus a few other things). By the time June and Hannah met at that house, they should have had an older child playing Hannah.
Yeah, I've been reading the earlier pages of the thread along with the episodes I've been watching. (I "bought" the first season on Amazon but rather than buying the others I've subscribed to Hulu to stream the series for "free" during my trial and watch it cheaper than buying it a season at a time on Amazon.)
Anyway, I saw the discussion earlier about the stoning and I was confused as to why others were confused. I mean, the only stoning that "happened" was when they were set-up to punish Janine and they declined. The "rapist" (the only other person we saw this grouping with) got stomped/beat to death by them. But I've the benefit of seeing these episodes over the last few days and not couple years. Still, not sure why that'd be something would be confused on.
The timeline/passage doesn't seem to be great either. It seems like it's always Winter when June's pregnancy should've gone through some of the warmer months. I know they're in Massachusetts but they still have mild weather there. Hell, in one of the flashbacks when they're talking about the environmental problems they mention how it may not snow at all!
June's "plot armor" seems terribly strong. Janine give some lip and they take out an eye. Emily is revealed to be a "gender traitor" and they give her a clitorectomy, Serena reads and they take a finger, Janine almost kills herself and the baby and they send her to the Colonies, that one girl refused to stone Janine and they take out her tongue, one (or was it all?) of the others refused and they burn their forearm. (Granted at this point June was pregnant so they were going softer on her to protect the baby,) Moira escapes and presumably nothing physically happens to her and she gets sent to Jezebel's.
But with everything that's happened with June to this point people just seems to take the "excuses" and such the Commander gives them and they.... Do nothing or slap her on the feet? (Again. I guess that's the standing punishment for trying to escape?)
Her plot armor seems really strong. As for the "writing in a corner" explanation on the baby at the house thing... Yeah.
I guess?
But can you write yourself into a corner in the middle of a season? Shouldn't it all be planned out? Writing in a corner happens with, like Best of Both Worlds and "Mr. Worf... fire!" and then next season, oh, nothing bad happened.
But that stuff with vacation home, just seemed like they wanted the setting and drama of June being alone and having to deliver it by herself instead with the "delivery ceremony" and her having to choose to get herself re-caught.
(Seriously, June, you couldn't operate the emergency release for the automatic garage door opener?)
But, anyway, I'm liking the series well enough.
Same here. But I follow several review channels on YouTube, and on a couple of them... yikes.
Okay, I'm a woman, and I thought it would be interesting to see how female reviewers treat this show.
I had to quit most of them, because everything turned into a race-based screechfest. Good grief - the novel has ZERO black characters, because Gilead is an all-white society. All non-white people were either shipped off to the colonies, sent "back home" (Offred thinks they were really just killed and it's just propaganda that they were deported), or hanged on the Wall (most notably Jews).
The TV show, on the other hand, has a diverse cast. It's lacking some obvious characters, of course - where are the Asian and aboriginal women? I know there are lots in the U.S. and Canada isn't short on actresses in those minority groups. So why weren't they included? I wonder if anyone has ever asked Elisabeth Moss that question.
But all the women on these review channels zero in on is "How DARE they turn a white woman into Harriet Tubman?" and they will not listen to any words of reason that tells them that Margaret Atwood based this novel on real history all over the world. Slavery has existed everywhere, as long as there have been humans. It's not all about the U.S.
I have no idea why people would insist on making something up and digging their heels into that when presented with evidence to the contrary. It's like they think I made up the Particicution clip myself, when it's obvious that it's a clip from the show.
They also have goofy ideas about Canada, too, especially about whether or not we have baby formula here (yes, we really do; we also have running water and electricity and do not live in igloos). So I just gave up on those review channels, as apparently Americans who have never been to Canada know more about Canada than real Canadians do.
My preferred YT review channel is Smirking Gun Reviews. The host, Rob, is very passionate in his views, and once paid me the compliment of saying I should start my own review channel because of my insightful views and explanations (he appreciated me explaining what did and did not make sense about the Canada storyline).
This is one of those Canadian things. The indoor scenes were filmed in studios, of course, and the outdoor scenes were filmed in and near Toronto; they did some filming in Washington, DC as well (dunno if you've watched that far).
One thing to keep in mind about most of Canada: Winter lasts 6, possibly 7, months (October-April). Or at least that's the number of consecutive months in which you can reasonably expect snow at some point (we've had it September-May sometimes, with a bit of snowfall in August in the Rockies). Since TV shows usually go on hiatus during the summer months, THT wouldn't be filming much in the way of summer scenes as production would be shut down until fall. So that's why Gilead seems to be caught in a perpetual fall-winter-chilly spring sort of situation.
It wouldn't surprise me if the dialogue about not snowing was written by someone comfortably curled up in Los Angeles, who has no clue at all about the realities of the seasons in Canada.
If you want a sunnier, warmer version of The Handmaid's Tale, try the 1990 movie (starring Natasha Richardson, Robert Duvall, and Faye Dunaway as Offred, Fred, and Serena). The movie has brighter colors and the lighting doesn't make everything so dark that you can barely see what's going on. But it's just as oppressive, though the ending isn't like the one in the novel.
Fun fact: The same people own the rights to the 1990 movie and the TV series. That's why some of the dialogue from the first two seasons of the TV show and a bit of the music are word-for-word and note-for-note the same as in the movie (I've watched the movie enough times to notice some of this).
In the 1990 movie, Moira is tortured after being recaptured; she wears fingerless gloves to hide the worst of it. She tells Offred (movie Offred's real name is Kate) that she was given the choice of the Colonies or Jezebel's so she chose Jezebel's.
The TV show version of Moira fares much better than the novel/movie version. Novel/movie Moira disappears from the story after the encounter in Jezebel's and we (and Offred) never find out what ultimately happens to her.
It wouldn't surprise me if there are handmaids who had their tendons cut or their toes amputated for escape attempts. That's not in the novel or movie, though, just my speculation. There's a scene in the movie where another handmaid's feet were whipped for disobedience, and that's happened to June a few times. It's not a light punishment, actually; it's something that really happens in that women's prison in Iran.
You'd think they would have planned better. Or the director might have said, "Waitaminute, this doesn't make any sense..." There's a YT video about one of the episodes directed by Kari Skogland. She's a Canadian director who pays a tremendous amount of attention to details, symbolism, and really knows how to set a mood.
Okay, here I'm going to disagree with you. It would have been really stupid of June to take off in that car (assuming she could have gotten out of the garage).
First of all... women aren't allowed to drive in Gilead. At all. Only Eyes, Angels, Commanders and male Econoworkers are allowed to drive. Moira was able to steal a man's uniform, but how would June find one to fit her 9-months-pregnant body?
How far was it to the border? Who knows? We're not told, and it's a really important thing to know, because the car would run out of gas, and how would June get more? Gilead doesn't run on cash; it's either electronic or the barter system (among the Marthas), so she can't pay for it.
But even on the off-chance that she might find a sympathetic gas-station attendant who was willing to help her, there's the border itself to get across. In RL, there's not an inch of the 49th parallel that isn't under some kind of electronic surveillance, even though the border is sometimes only guarded by a collection of potted plants (not kidding about that). I call BS on the "unguarded" areas where some characters have crossed from Gilead into Canada, particularly when it's via a road.
And then there's the weather. It's winter, and if the car runs out of gas or breaks down, then what? So many people on the review channel comments section kept insisting June should "just cross the border on foot."
Um... no. Moira did that, she was in better shape, and if she hadn't literally stumbled into that farm, she would have frozen to death. This is something that happened in real life, not that many years ago. Trump and his executive order against people from a select list of Muslim countries led to a hell of a lot of people crossing the border into Canada in BC, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec. One woman who tried it in Manitoba ended up freezing to death, and was found the following spring in a ditch on a farm that was just over the border.
So no, it was much smarter of June to give herself up. She would have been found sooner or later at the house, and she didn't have a hope of driving out of there and making it to Canada.
It feels strange to say but, that's one thing I find the hardest to swallow, is that a society like this operated by men like this would allow such diversity. But it's a show being made in a modern era, it couldn't possibly have gotten away with an all-white cast, and I understand and accept that. So this group of Christian Radicals are okay with non-whites and mixed marriages.
Strange that apparently people don't seem to "know" Canada that well, I always think of it as a lot like, er..., well. "Similar" to us, at least mostly culturally and just the way things look and how people behave and everything, Except nicer and some with French accents.
I watched the DC episode last night before finishing my viewing for the day. Um, yeah. the Washington Monument wouldn't be able to support those horizontal additions to turn it into a cross. Architecture doesn't work that way.
Good episode, though. I think I may have completely given up on any "redemption" for Serena.
.
Filming locations can make shows taking place outdoors over the course of a calendar year can be difficult to do "properly" when your setting and filming location aren't aligned. (Usually why a lot of time many shows filmed in California will take place there, it's got visually stable weather all year round.) The Walking Dead has a similar (but reverse) issue where it films mostly during the milder and warmer months but takes places in areas with fairly regular and normal seasonal cycles but it seems like it's always Spring/Summer outside. (Though they did do a few episodes that took place during a Winter with snow.)
Oh I'm sure it's very painful and have no doubt that it really happens, not just because of the Atwood's scope of the writing the book, but just because it just seems like something that would happen. It's just odd to me that's about the harshest extent of June's punishment she's been given other than being smacked around, zapped with the cattle-prod and put in isolation. Several of the other misbehaved women got mush harsher punishment on their first offence.
Oh, I'm not saying she would've made it far. Hell, she probably wouldn't have made it out of the driveway in that car with out it being cleared and then she wouldn't have made it far on the road. At most she likely would've ended up having to walk back to the house from the end of the neighbor's house.
I'm just saying she should've been able to get the garage door open.
Season 5 trailer is finally here:
The season premieres on September 14.
In case anyone hasn't heard already, Alexis Bledel elected not to return for this season. Which is a shame because Emily's story was one of my favorite aspects of the show and I kept lamenting how we didn't get nearly enough of it, especially last season.
The season premieres on September 14.
In case anyone hasn't heard already, Alexis Bledel elected not to return for this season. Which is a shame because Emily's story was one of my favorite aspects of the show and I kept lamenting how we didn't get nearly enough of it, especially last season.
I can live without Emily. I really don't see that her story has anywhere much left to go, honestly. Her marriage didn't survive the separation and she got some kind of closure with the woman who betrayed her. She survived a lot longer than she did in the original novel (committed suicide so she couldn't betray Offred when the Eyes would inevitably interrogate her).
Hopefully Canadian viewers won't be screwed over by not getting the episodes in a timely way. And I'd appreciate a bit of consideration with spoilers, please. Last season you blabbed everything about the first three episodes before we even had a chance to watch anything, and we didn't get the third episode until the following week.
I need to get back into this, haven't watched through S4 yet.