The Handmaid's Tale (TV series)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Skipper, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Ah, yeah, I had forgotten about Stephen Harper. Thanks for the reminder there.

    Like I said, it's not so much surprising as it is disgusting.

    It's unclear who they are (we just see them rallying outside of the courthouse). Could go be either or both.

    Yup, sure did. That's the sleep deprivation talking. :(
     
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  2. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

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    Last episode June pretty clearly indicated that it's only been 7 years since this madness began. "What happened to chips in the last 7 years" shows that June hasn't eaten chips in 7 years. The Boston Globe newspaper reporting the aftermath to the President's Day Massacre is dated September 15, 2014. How is it, then, that this new crop of compliant, obedient handmaid's have only known life in Gilead their entire lives? They look much older than 7. Let's say they are 20. That would make them 13 when the world turned upside down. The handmaid's in that scene looked much older than early teens.

    A gilded cage is still a cage, but the Waterfords are held in a nice cell. Why they are allowed private time to collaborate with each other is beyond me.

    It's a shame the Aunt died as I would have also liked to have seen her turn state's evidence. That was my thinking when she was begging for forgiveness. I was hoping Emily would tell her to go confess to the authorities. It is a comfort to know that there are other former handmaid's in Canada, as well as a few Marthas now.

    Why are the Waterfords on trial in Canada specifically? Shouldn't this be at the World Court? Isn't Gilead responsible for crimes against humanity? Perhaps these are just early proceedings. After all, it is a pre-trial hearing.

    How long can a government remain in exile before it's no longer a government? Free France existed in London during WWII, but they were eventually restored to France. Taiwan still exists but, then again, they do have some land to control. Well, there still are Alaska and Hawaii, so there still is a US government of some kind. Why again is the US government in Toronto? Perhaps it's just an embassy and the real capitol is in either Alaska or Hawaii?

    You keep using this phrase "righteous anger." I'm not sure that I agree. Righteous anger has it's limits. June seems to be pushing past those limits and wants to bring the others along with her. Moira discussed how the group was supposed to be a place of healing and June wants to know why can't it be both - June is tying healing with revenge. Understandable, but not right nor healthy. Everyone damaged the way these women have been need to heal. Many people damaged this way cannot face their abuses or seek revenge. Does that mean they can't heal? Of course not. Therefore, healing is not tied to revenge.

    Can these women heal, though? I suppose they can. What the former handmaid's have endured really isn't much different in terms of trauma than what many victims of the Nazi death camps went through. Those who survived that holocaust needed to heal. While some did not, many no doubt did. Few of those victims were able to face their former oppressors. Sure, there were the Nuremburg trials, but that doesn't always help the individual. Trials aren't going to satisfy June.

    I didn't think it went far enough, though I'm' hard pressed to figure out how June could have done any better. The horrors are beyond words. Plus, the scope of this pre-trial hearing was limited to the Waterfords. June's experiences and sufferings extend far beyond the Waterfords.

    I'm sorry, but even with Timewalker's verification, I find that court exit scene far-fetched. Timewalker, I'm anxious to hear your take after you get to watch the episode. Considering that Canada shares these socio-political similarities with the USA, then I can't believe such a one-sided protest or support crowed could have formed. There would have been just as many, if not more, anti-Waterford people there. The two groups would have fought. Even if they didn't fight, there should have been just as many people booing and cat-calling and shouting vitriol at the Waterfords. It should have been chaos. What happened to all those protesters Moira was with when Fred went on that diplomatic mission to Canada back in, what, season 1?
     
  3. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    The writers must all have failed basic math, or the producers failed to hire a competent continuity person. I've been in numerous arguments on the YouTube review channels, explaining approximately how many years it's been for June since her capture and estimating how long Gilead had existed before that.

    It drives me right up the wall and up the chimney when I hear people say it's only been 5 years or whatever. Some harridan on YouTube kept screeching at me that I was wrong, the Reddit fans were right, because they'd gone by some piece of set design that had dates on it.

    I told her you can't go by set design, and that you have to go by what the characters establish in Season 1, episode 1 (when June and Emily talk about their kids), and keeping in mind that the Waterfords were not June's first placement. By the time she gets there, she's been a Handmaid for 3 years (including her initial orientation and brainwashing in the Red Centre).

    As for the chips... they were in a Canadian grocery store. We have a lot of flavors of chips the Americans don't have, and in some cases have never heard of. And this taking place in Ontario, where it's more likely to run across brands/flavors of chips that are available in Ontario but not in other provinces (it's annoying to see some of them listed online, only to be told I can't order them because they're not available in Alberta).

    Well... good for Lawrence for calling out Lydia on her penchant for physically torturing people (even though he called it a 'hobby').

    It's long been my belief that they are not being held in a Canadian prison. Even the nicest Canadian prison isn't as luxurious as that, and while I've never been to any embassy, it does make sense to me that an embassy would have secure facilities in case they ever needed to detain high-ranking political prisoners. So my take is that "Little America" - in the middle of Toronto - has a branch office of the American Embassy that should actually be in Ottawa but isn't, because the showrunners prefer to pretend that Toronto is the capital and it and an Ontario farm are the only parts of Canada that exist.

    As we saw, Emily tends not to be in a forgiving mood when it comes to Aunts and Wives. She killed a Wife in the Colonies, killed the Mayday agent during the Salvaging (to put him out of his misery before the rest of the Handmaids tore him apart), ran over a guard, and tried to kill Aunt Lydia.

    I did some Googling and learned that the official location of the International Criminal Court is The Hague, Netherlands. However, the proceedings of this court can take place anywhere.

    Canada is a member. The U.S. is not. Therefore, I conclude that the Waterfords are being tried in Canada as the nearest secure nation that is part of this international court.

    So it's not Canada that is actually prosecuting them, it's the world court doing it in Canada.

    I did think it was interesting that June asked about a bible. Did she want one to swear on? Did she want one so she could make a point of not swearing on it?

    I don't know how it is in the U.S., but in Canada people may, but are not required, to swear on the holy book of their choice. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees this choice, which is why people doing oaths/affirmations in public notary offices have the option, and I had the option back when I worked either as a municipal census taker and Deputy Returning Officer for elections, and for Elections Canada as an enumerator and Deputy Returning Officer for federal elections.

    I do recall, however, that when the City Clerk asked if anyone had an objection to swearing on a bible and I raised my hand, he gave me a dirty look and my colleagues all gave a collective gasp that translated to "OMG, how could she possibly object to swearing on a bible?!". They were horrified, and the City Clerk was irritated that extra paperwork would be required for an affirmation. But after years of coercion in schools about religious rituals, after 1982 saw the Charter come in, I finally had the legal right to say no. I was therefore pleased to see that there was no bible-swearing in the episode.

    Just an embassy. But then I've noticed that a lot of American viewers on the YT review channels are hopelessly ignorant about Canada, and seem to take it as "of course the Americans have authority in Canada, and the Canadians should just give them Little America for a state of their own."

    To which my reaction was a very sincere WTF?!

    To see how absurd such a notion is, just reverse it. If Gilead happened in Canada and there were Canadian refugees in the U.S. and a Canadian government-in-exile (let's suppose that maybe Newfoundland might have remained free of a Canadian Gilead since it's an island, or maybe Vancouver Island might have and the temporary capital might be Victoria)... would the Americans just GIVE land to Canada for a new province?

    Of course not. So why should Canada just give away part of a city as a "state" of a foreign country?

    It might be more apt to say "self-righteous anger." June doesn't have much regard for what other people think is right. Her view is the only one that matters to her, and I think she was like this pre-Gilead as well. I have to say that while she has gone through some horrific experiences and genuinely loves her children, I don't really like her.

    Trials are pointless without an outcome, and it has to be obvious that the Waterfords are guilty as hell, along with every other "Son of Jacob". The only one I can give wiggle room to is Nick, since he's been a double agent for a long time (have to admit that so far we don't know just when he allied with Mayday, just that it was before June first came to the Waterfords; we don't know all his allegiances in the four years or so prior to that).

    Hopefully at some point June will get to tell someone of the atrocities she saw in Washington, with the Handmaids whose mouths are ringed shut. I can't figure out why they're not all insane by this point, not to mention malnourished from not being able to eat properly, they'd have breathing problems, they'd choke if they ever threw up, and some of their piercings would have become infected.

    I actually felt physically nauseated when watching that scene. Someone sympathetic to Gilead would have to have organized it, and would likely have had to apply for a permit. Protest permits don't have to be granted to all sides of an issue (usually resulting in further protests on the grounds of freedom of expression and freedom of assembly). If the show did this like it would happen in RL, there is probably an additional site where the anti-Waterford protesters would have gathered. But it would not be anywhere near the location where these proceedings are being held.

    (I'm thinking about the way the G20 protests were held some years ago and the massive overreaction of the police; there are lawsuits pending even after all this time for false arrest and detention, assault, and so on)

    The show hasn't ever said whether Canada is also experiencing the same severe drop in birthrate as the U.S. and Mexico. Maybe it is, and that's one reason why all those sign-waving sycophants came out.

    As I mentioned a couple of seasons ago, reading between the lines of how the Canadian government behaves in each season, I have to conclude that the Liberals were in charge during the Waterfords' diplomatic visit, and decided to kick them out once the Handmaids' letters were released online. Later on, when there's talk of sending some of the refugees back, that tells me there's been an off-camera election and the Conservatives won.

    If this were a real-life situation, the Liberals would never send women and children back to a country where they would be enslaved, tortured, denied basic human rights and an education, and so forth. The Conservatives (the Reform kind led by Stephen Harper) would consider doing so if it were politically expedient, as they have a dismal record when it comes to hostages and asylum issues. *

    * That's not to say that the Trudeau government has accepted every asylum seeker who crossed over the border into Canada since Trump decided Muslims from certain countries weren't welcome. They still have to be interviewed and satisfy the examiners that they have a valid reason for requesting asylum, and those who fail these interviews are deported.

    So it doesn't quite work the way we saw for Emily and June at the border. In practice, it's usual to be helpful first and ask the questions later. There's TV footage of the Roxham Road location where thousands of asylum seekers crossed a ditch to get into Canada, and the U.S. authorities glared at the RCMP who helped the kids and some of the women so they wouldn't fall or trip in the snow (all the while reminding them that what they were doing was illegal and they would be detained; were they sure they still wanted to cross? - and not getting violent about it when they answered yes).

    I'm not in a great headspace about right-wing government these days. There's an intense social media protest going on right now in Alberta against the Minister of Education, after an unmarked mass grave of 215 native kids was found in Kamloops, BC, on the grounds of a former residential school. Our Minister of Education was silent for 5 days, while the outrage grew on her FB page and Twitter. And while she has no authority in BC, the fact is that there were residential schools in her own riding - one of them just a few blocks from where I live and am typing this post - and now they're going to go over these sites again. They expect to find something like 800 or so bodies among the sites in this city. So yeah, this is very much something she needs to address, and someone speculated that the reason she didn't show up to a local vigil is that she's afraid for her safety.

    Well, so far Canadians aren't socially wired for political assassination, at least not most of us. She's likely in danger of being yelled at and called every name in the book, but unlikely to be physically harmed. So far the physical protests have consisted of writing messages in chalk in front of her office - something she passionately scolded them for, claiming it was illegal (it's not) and would damage the building (so don't use a high-pressure hose to clean the sidewalk; brush it away and let the rain deal with it, like normal people do).

    One reason I bring her up is because she would be among the Waterford supporters if this was a RL thing. This is a woman who used to be head of the Catholic Board of Education here and saw nothing wrong with bussing classrooms' worth of teenagers from Catholic junior/senior high schools to an anti-abortion rally, where they learned the fine art of harassing women and teen girls who were attempting to access entirely legal reproductive health services.

    That is what is my MLA (Member of the Legislative Assembly) is like. And she chose an openly racist POS to oversee the new Social Studies draft curriculum for the K-6 grades... who never misses an opportunity to mock the residential school survivors and the victims of the Japanese internment camps in WWII (yeah, we did that as well, in BC).

    There are people who are openly musing that the federal Reform/Conservatives and the provincial UCP in my province would love a Gilead-type of government. Get the homeless, disabled, elderly, and natives out of the way, women to stay in the home making babies and sandwiches, and mandatory religious indoctrination would be a matter of course.

    The latter is already being planned in the new curriculum... pushing Christianity on kids as young as 5, telling the kids that immigrants bring new and strange beliefs (apparently Buddhism and Wicca are "new and strange" and while this might be scary, they have to be "tolerated."

    Not kidding, btw. That's how it was phrased in an earlier online version of the curriculum before someone toned it down a bit. This provincial government is attempting an end run around the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, that guarantees freedom of religion. Of course those who favor indoctrination say this means the Charter guarantees they are allowed to push, coerce, and indoctrinate, and they don't care that their targets have the right not to be pushed, coerced, and indoctrinated.

    So this season is hitting a bit close to home for me. I'm in no danger of becoming a handmaid, but the public school students are in danger of their basic rights being violated in the same way that was routine in some of the schools I attended prior to the Charter being enacted.
     
  4. Skipper

    Skipper Commodore Commodore

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    I admit I'm a little behind. How the is the infertility thing going in the world? Because it's a little troublesome for me thinking that the state-approved rape is more effective than all the existing medical science and technology.
     
  5. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    They want Handmaids pregnant and producing babies. They don't really care how anyone feels about how they get pregnant.

    Right-wing religious fundamentalists tend to be short on science, anyway. Just look at who the covid deniers are and the anti-vaxxers spreading misinformation and fearmongering... chances are they're not left-wing voters (if they vote).

    20 years ago I spent 5 weeks in the hospital. One of the patients I had conversations with turned out to be the father of one of my classmates from waaaay back (early '70s). This guy was an 85-year-old JW, who of course promptly tried to convert me. He would also ramble on about how awful the space program was and that it should be stopped.

    I did not point out to him that it was thanks to the spinoff computer and medical technology gained from the space program that he was still alive.


    Of course it seems rather stupid to allow a torture-happy woman like Lydia anywhere near the handmaids. Most of the women in June's "class" at the Red Centre are either dead by execution, in the Colonies, in Canada, or they were victims of the bomb set off by Ofglen #2. They've had to "replenish the stock" - but where they got these new, younger women hasn't been explained. Maybe they were imported from another district. Some could be Econowives or Econodaughters who committed some crime that wasn't bad enough to execute them for it.

    I have to wonder WTF happened to Janine, why she has a bandage over where her right eye used to be.
     
  6. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Yeah, that bothered me as well. I guess it was because of spousal privilege or something like that.

    I thought the same thing. While I certainly didn't want Irene/Iris to have a redemption arc, I was curious to see her story play out beyond a single episode instead of it ending with her overwhelming shame pushing her to kill herself.

    Fair points there. I think it definitely started out as righteous anger but not has evolved into outright revenge. I think I kept using "righteous anger" as a placeholder for all of that partially because I was sleep deprived and couldn't think past the surface response that I was feeling after watching the episode.

    I think people like Rita and Moira are likely to heal (not entirely, but at least to a large degree) but it's already clear that's going to be a far longer, far more difficult road for people like Emily and especially June (and Janine if she can ever escape). I think Emily had a better chance of healing before June came in storming with her revenge motivations.

    Speaking of which, this just came to mind: This whole season has been about how June has directly affected the women around her in her vengeful crusade against Gilead. Whether it was pushing Esther to become a child soldier, influencing Janine to keep fleeing even when she felt safe with the Chicago rebel group (I've already forgotten their name), and now forcing Emily to face Aunt Irene and reject her pleas for forgiveness.

    Definitely, but for the purposes of a drama, it had to be limited. Not just because the hearing was only about the Waterfords but also because in a real-life situation, her testimony would've been far longer, more detailed, and involved more questioning. Also judges who actually controlled the proceedings instead of allowing a dramatic face-off between the victim and the abuser.

    I did find it weird that the only people there were the fervent Waterford supporters and no sign of any of the many anti-Gilead activists that we've seen plenty of (it was in season 2, by the way).

    That makes me wonder if perhaps that moment had been deliberately orchestrated so that only those Waterford supporters were present. Maybe the activists were in front of a different part of the building and the Waterfords were able/allowed to exit a different way so they could see their supporters? Or perhaps I'm overthinking the moment. Either way, as you said, it is a bit farfetched.
     
  7. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    I did explain the possible reasons for this, not that I'd expect the American writers/showrunners to pay much attention to Canadian political history of the past 10 or 15 years, but at contentious international events, it wasn't uncommon for the government to tell the protesters that they would be allowed to protest... somewhere else. They didn't want the foreign diplomats to be confronted or challenged by people waving signs and telling them off, so the "protest zone" would be blocks away and strictly controlled by the police who could, and did, arrest anyone they felt stepped an inch out of that zone, including passersby who were just going about their daily business, having nothing to do with the G20 protest, but still got arrested, thrown in a van, and denied what would be normal due course.

    I'll just make up my head canon that this is why there were only pro-Waterford supporters there, and no anti-Waterford protesters. It's because it's the likeliest thing to have happened if this were a RL situation.
     
  8. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  9. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Well, to be fair, I'm not expecting the showrunners to go in deep (or even on a surface level) of Canadian political history. That's not the point of this show, especially since it's an alternate history unto itself.
     
  10. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    You wondered how it could have happened that the pro-Waterford crowd were the only ones present. I offered an explanation that happens both in RL and could have happened in an in-universe, off-camera way on the show. Not that I expect American writers to be aware or even do any research (sometimes it seems like they just make shit up when it comes to the Canada storyline), but it's an explanation that would fit.

    You appeared to ignore my post, speculating again.

    I get that we don't see this show the same way and that I was upset at how you spoiled EVERYTHING about the first two episodes (Americans got the first three that night while Canadians only got two and we had to wait another week for the third episode) without regard for anyone else who doesn't get to view it early (it's on TV here at 7 pm MDT)... but now that we've caught up and get the new episodes on the same day you do, I don't mind it so much.

    When you speculate and wonder about how things work or don't work in Canada and I offer a reason or at least plausible speculation, I'd appreciate it if my posts were taken seriously. I feel strongly about this show and am not posting about it either here or on the review channels just for the typing practice. One of the YT reviewers (an American guy named Rob, who runs the Smirking Gun Reviews channel) thanked me for my insights and explanations of a couple of points that he and some of the viewers hadn't been sure about, and suggested I do my own reviews (he meant that in a nice way).


    So here's my snark for the week: That's a very large house Luke and Moira live in. Given how insanely expensive Toronto is both rent and mortgage-wise, how can they possibly afford it? Even the Syrian refugees we took in several years ago only had a year of government support, by which time they were expected to either be enrolled in school, have a job, or be dealing with whatever social supports they might need. The asylum-seeker's 'welcome to Canada' kit and benefits Moira was given was standard, not overly-generous.
     
  11. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    All that support for the Waterfords was so dumb. That's my only takeaway from the episode.
     
  12. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    We have stupid people here.
     
  13. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    See my reference to Canadian Christian-supremacists earlier. The Waterfords would have a fan club here, sorry to say.
     
  14. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Fellow Canadian from Alberta. We have that sort actually running things here (Jason Kenney and his band of merry misogynistic sociopaths).
     
  15. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Just when I was (regretfully) thinking last week that I didn't expect to see Esther again, lo and behold, she finally returned. It makes sense (both for storytelling and for Lydia's purposes) to have her appear now as means to draw out Janine. Seems to me that Lydia is deliberately playing the two of them against each other in order to make them both more manageable and to get them to conform to Gilead's bidding (or more importantly, Lydia's). With only one more episode left this season, I'm not sure what to expect for them other than setup for the next season.

    Especially since the driving force of this episode is June and Luke's efforts to get Hannah back however possible. I'm not surprised they reached out to Commander Lawrence but it was still hard to hear his harsh words about June's love harming others. The whole conversation was painful, not just because of his unwillingness to help because of his own self-preservation, but also because what he said was on some levels true. I didn't expect him to help out in any form, but it was still revolting to hear him suggest sending some of the children June rescued back to Gilead in exchange for Hannah. I'm very relieved that June didn't even consider that monstrous idea for a second.

    Likewise, I wasn't surprised Luke then pushed June to reach out to Nick and try to manipulate him because Nick parentage of Nichole, but I'm also tired of the show trying to push this relationship. It's one I've never quite bought beyond a mechanism for June's survival, and while I know it's intended to have grown beyond that, it's not a development that I've ever believed. That said, it felt like that Luke's plan to manipulate Nick to help them rescue Hannah backfired because it seemed that Nick may have convince June, by building on Lawrence's argument, that Hannah would be safer with her "foster" family. Perhaps I misread that scene and her reaction on the drive home. I guess we'll know for sure next week.

    We didn't get a chance to follow up on that point this episode because it ended on the (expected by the viewers) bombshell from Mark Tuello that Fred Waterford has negotiated a plea bargain to become an asset to Canada on all things Gilead in exchange for dropping all of his charges. Of course, Luke and Moira are pissed off, but it was June's quiet simmering rage of the last few episodes that finally blew up into a full-on verbal attack on Tuello, threating to kill him for releasing a horrific rapist.

    As she should.

    I don't really have anything else to say about the Waterfords and their surprise visits from the Putnams (because, as I've said before in past weeks, I'm so sick of them), but seeing Fred Waterford on the receiving end of "thoughts and prayers" was beautifully glorious. :guffaw:
     
  16. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

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    Is it just Fred, or did Serena receive a similar deal?

    Wish they could have played for the court how horrified Serena was at the thought she'd be made a Handmaid.

    Can the Waterford's still be charged in civil court? Something I learned from the OJ trial was that civil court can be an option if justice isn't served in a criminal court. I think this level of court proceedings is on another level entirely than even criminal proceedings.
     
  17. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Knowing Fred, probably just for himself. I guess we'll find out next week.

    That was the other good moment with the Waterfords from this episode. I won't lie: I smiled just a little at that moment. :lol:

    Hm, that's a good question. But that also comes back to that point discussed earlier: Who is actually doing the trials? Is it the Canadian government? Is it an extension of the ICC? Or is it some other coalition of nations (including Canada and what remains of the US) that's seeking retribution?

    I think we would have to know the answers to those questions before asking questions about possible proceedings in civil court (whose civil court? Canada's? The remaining US?).
     
  18. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    International Criminal Court (sometimes referred to as the World Court). Their HQ is in The Netherlands, but proceedings can happen in any member country. The U.S. is not a member. Canada is is the closest member country to the U.S./Gilead, the refugees are there, so it makes sense to hold the hearings in Canada.

    So no, the Canadian government itself is not doing these hearings (though the judges/prosecutor wear the same outfits you'd find in any Canadian courtroom).

    Or so that's how I understand it at this point.[/quote]

    Hm. I've already posted about this.

    I guess I must be on everyone's ignore list. Otherwise I might expect that at least someone might have read my posts and not act like I didn't explain anything.


    As for civil court... look at the convoluted lawsuits against Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen charged with murder in Afghanistan. The widows of the men he killed have been trying to sue him since he was given the $10.5M settlement from the Canadian government because his Charter rights were violated.

    It's not easy to sue for war-related reasons, between two (or more) countries. But I suspect that if the show does go there, it will just make shit up as usual.
     
  19. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Well.

    That was. Something.

    I know I'm suppose to fell horrified by the savagery of June, Emily and other former handmaids beating Fred to death.

    I know he deserved it and I know their act of savagery was suppose to be cathartic.

    I even understand that there was little chance for restorative justice against Fred's actions, even if he wasn't giving them "intel" (more like half-baked truths wrapped in lies).

    And yet. It didn't feel right.

    I'm not sure how to express how I feel about it. I certainly felt June's fury over Fred potentially getting to walk scot free after everything he did, regardless of her testimony and the testimonies of others. I certainly felt her growing frustration with Mark Tuello and how he kept trying to say getting information from Fred was for the greater good. I felt her frustration when others tried to tell June that she needed to let go of Fred and move forward, even when she said she wanted to but couldn't.

    I was grateful (even if it felt unlikely) that June was able to reach out to Joseph and arrange an in-person meeting to negotiate a prisoner exchange to force Mark's hand (indeed Fred was not worth more than all of those women). He might not have gotten the punishments he deserved from Canada and the rest of the world, but at least Gilead would've made him suffer. But even that wasn't quite right.

    The one thing that did resonate for me was June's answer to Emily about what June wanted: She wanted Fred to feel the fear that she felt. The fear on that fateful day when she was running away with Hannah and then to have her daughter ripped from her arms. That felt visceral. I, too, wanted him to feel that fear.

    And yet. That actual moment didn't feel satisfying.

    Perhaps that's the point. Even if June doesn't seem to think so.
     
  20. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    She's martyred him, hasn't she? For Gilead's long-term political purposes, she might as well have.

    Doesn't mean she was wrong. But they'll try to spin it for domestic and international purposes that way.