Poll The Guidelines are...

It's potentially beneficial in the form of advise, not as a restriction. The Guidelines are clearly contextualized as restrictions, not advice:

There's no such thing as non-consensual help, however well-intentioned it might be.

That doesn't contradict my point, though. Limiting to 15 minutes might be good advice for some fan film makers (particularly those with limited time and resources), but the purpose of the Guideline is for the benefit of CBS, not the fans. (And benefiting CBS in an of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. I just wish CBS would find an approach that's more win-win.)

 

Yes, and the 15 minute limit benefits CBS.

 

That's their intention. As to whether it will actually benefit them in the long term, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Then again, who knows. Perhaps, in a few decades, bots will realistically render all shows using CGI and produce content custom tailored to each viewer that eliminates the emotional need for fan films.

 

I'm still waiting on holodeck recreations, but CGI is nice too, I guess

 

Are these the same rules that makes everything so limiting and can ruin so many fan films.

If so how can people say They are fine just the way they are, like how?

 

One, limits are beneficial to art, not a hindrance. The idea that fan films can run whole hog because "I'm a fan" is problematic argument because it assumes an ownership of the property that doesn't exist.

Secondly, fan films have operated under limits for years, with Star Wars ones being the more famous examples. Some studios don't allow them at all.

Finally, if fan film producers don't care about the rules then they won't follow them-period. CBS has simply established guidelines that indicate what they will tolerate and not immediately trigger a lawsuit or a C&D order.

They may need some clarification, which likely will come as productions get made. But, the idea that they are bad because rules=bad is poor argumentation at best.

 

Potemkin Pictures has no problem with the fan film guidelines. We were the first to release a production after the guidelines were imposed (The Chronicles of Lanclos, June 28th 2016), and we've had a total of 21 additional productions since that time. Only one production (Between Two Worlds) has broken the guidelines with a 30 min run-time. We've continued to produce fan films made by fans for fans and plan on continuing to do so for years to come.

 

Because they aren't so limiting and they don't run fan films.

 

How about if CBS/Paramount just says "screw it. This isn't worth the trouble" and bans every fan production of any kind?

 

That will likely be the next step.

 

I wouldn't blame them.

 

Then why Renegades not star trek renegades anymore?

 

So changing the title spoiled everything for you?

 

They made a choice. They probably could’ve been grandfathered in, as they were in production when the guidelines came out.

However, there is a time limit now in place. But that’s hardly a destructive limit. That doesn’t prevent fanfilms from being made.

 

I think they made the right choice. They certainly could have gone to CBS and asked for a waiver, but really, all they had to do was change the title and file off a few fingerprints and they're good to go without having to tap any good will from CBS. The less often anyone goes to that well the better, IMHO.

 

"Quick video". 21 minutes is not "quick" for what is essentially a rant.

He starts off repeating the old chestnut of fans saving the show, as if this somehow means the show owes them something. Really? Even if so (and that story's been chipped away at by Solow-Justman, etc.), the fans who did it were the ones actually wrote to NBC in 1968, not all Trek fandom then and since. Ergo, unless you're older than me you had squat to do with it, so stop taking approbation for something you weren't even on the planet for.

What little I watched beyond that is him making the same tired arguments we've had here since the Guidelines came down.

The guiidelines do not stifle creativity. In fact, they force you to be more creative because you can't just ape the real shows. Being able to copy something is generally less creative than having to make up your own stuff. So that argument doesn't fly.

Bah.

 

That's their choice.

CBS made their choice. As fans, we are not entitled to making fan films-period. We have no ownership of the property nor are we able to control what is made under the Star Trek name. CBS is well within their rights to make the rules, and they are not limiting fan films, any more than Star Wars fan films were limited when they were just allowed to be 5 minutes. 5 minutes is a lot longer than a lot of individuals can produce, much less tell a story.

If I want to do a fan film, I have to operate within the rules of the property owner. Or, I can make my own original work. One is demonstrably harder than the other

 

I don't see how the Guidelines allow for greater art. There's really nothing you can do now that you couldn't do before the Guidelines. You don't get better art by simply limiting what kind of art can be made.

I don't know if you've noticed, but over the years, copyright has been continually expanded and the public domain has actually shrank. I think there was actually a case where copyrighted works that were in the public domain were put back under copyright as the result of copyright treaties. This type of copyright law have been largely pushed by media corporations and publishers, so expecting them to set some high bar for use of copyrighted materials by fans is absurd.

This is a straw man argument. People who object to the Guidelines are not going around saying "We are strong! We have no need for laws, or government!" They object to the content and nature of the Guidelines, not their mere existence.

Either the fans have true influence over CBS, in which case it makes perfect sense to bring their concerns about the Guidelines to CBS's attention, or the fans have no influence on any decision CBS makes, in which case CBS is entirely responsible for their own actions and you very well CAN blame them.

His point was that the the Guidelines drove Renegades completely out of the Star Trek fan film community. Suggesting that his concerns are about a name change is disingenuous.

Seeing as productions that were already underway were slimmed down in run length to meet the guidelines, I fail to see how it's not destructive. You can measure the destruction in reduced run length, and that's not even mentioning the prohibition on series fan films.

Except that imitating the original shows it the point. It's what makes it a fan film in the first place. People who make fan films are not in a contest for who can be the most creative. They simply want to participate in the franchise they love.

Wow, that is the best argument I've ever seen against preventing professionals from participating in fan films. I hadn't even considered the extreme dangers of not employing professionals for your fan film. Sets could collapse or catch fire because they weren't properly made. People could get electrocuted. You could loose your house if someone gets hurt because you don't know how to properly produce a film and therefore don't know to properly obtain insurance. People could collapse from hunger or dehydration while shooting on location because the director and production manager are amateurs who don't know to provide proper catering or first aid kits on a long shoot in the middle the woods, and they probably don't know to have permits to shoot at that location either.