*~*~The Great J/C Thread~*~*
- Thread starter Tachyon
- Start date
Me too. Them being suddenly in the Alpha Quadrant really changes a lot for them all, but perhaps Seven has to face the most. So her deciding that the romantic affiliation with Chakotay is somewhat "irrelevant" with all the other things happening in her life is a believable scenario for me. Therefore, them calling quits could happen sooner than than the Voyager's impulse engines cool down. Tee hee. However, I would rather see Chakotay being the one to break things up, or them coming to that conclusion together.
I must admit I'm fascinated by the subject of Janeway's feelings at that point. Is she really gutted that just at the moment she can finally put her 'parameters' aside he's gone off with Seven, or is she so happy to be home and overwhelmed by what has happened meeting her future self, battling the Borg etc, that it's not so important to her?
Homecoming implies the latter, but if the events in Isabo's Shirt and then Full Circle are to be believed it's probably the former....
Homecoming implies the latter, but if the events in Isabo's Shirt and then Full Circle are to be believed it's probably the former....
I was reading "The Mists of Avalon" (again) the other day and came across a quote that made me think of Janeway at the end of the series--"She had loved him for so many years that now when she could look on him without desire, she felt hollow inside."
I think the early infatuation may be gone. That would only be "natural". And watching season 7 episodes, she seems more or less hollow inside (I'm not a huge fan of season 7 Janeway). However, I have always been fascinated by the idea that once the crew shatters, she (sooner or later) starts to realize that Chakotay not being there in daily basis is a bigger deal for her than she had expected it to be or imagined. While she wants to be happy for him, and she is, she still cannot shake off the feeling that an important piece in her life is not there.
I think you've probably 'got it' there Tachyon.
She's a bit distant from him anyway in the run up to Endgame as she is just thoroughly ground down with everything going on and the infatuation has worn off so she is able to sort of be pleased for him and Seven, or as pleased as she ever is about anything at that point in her 'hollow' state. Then when we see her in Homecoming politely inquiring about C/7 and hearing from him they've split up she's politely concerned but not shrieking with joy as she has only just got back and is overwhelmed, she'd just been reunitied with her mother and sister and she's just spent an evening with Mark and his wife at that point too and while she'd well and truly moved on from him it was just all a bit much to be dealing with when she'd been a bit distant from feeling anything positive about anything for most of the last few months. It's well documented that when people are stressed and possibly even traumatised they can lose touch with their feeligns about positive things as well as negative, their whole sense of feeling shuts down to protect their inner selves.
By the time we see them in in F/C as you say she's had time to miss him, as well as shake down a bit, get used to being home and get back in touch with her feelings about everything, a bit less 'hollow'!
Or that's my nice and deep waffly interpretation of Tachyon's clear thinking, and the results of what were probably oversights and sloppiness on the part of TPTB
The state of mind this woman is after seven-year-command without any breaks whatsoever during that time may require that she really takes some time off to reflect all that has happened and gets used to the idea of not being a captain anymore and thinking about the woman beneath her four pips. During such a time of contemplation she also might begin to see her relationship with Chakotay in a different kind of light.
Who knows? But it's fun to speculate.
Who knows? But it's fun to speculate.
As, erm, something of a non J/Cer, or perhaps more precisely one that doesn't want there to be a romance between the captain and her first officer but is fine with the concept of J/C beyond that, I rewatched "Scorpion" over the weekend and was curious for the J/C thread's take on the tension between Janeway and Chakotay in that episode.
Now, obviously they were in contention over the Borg alliance in that episode, but there was a subtext to it, that to me suggested that perhaps they had a thing of some level during "Resolutions" but had basically parted amicably and tried to stay friends, yet those feelings came up when they were in conflict. Anyone have a different take?
Now, obviously they were in contention over the Borg alliance in that episode, but there was a subtext to it, that to me suggested that perhaps they had a thing of some level during "Resolutions" but had basically parted amicably and tried to stay friends, yet those feelings came up when they were in conflict. Anyone have a different take?
I always looked at it as unresolved sexual tension coming out as anger but there's a variety of ideas among J/Cers regarding what happened and didn't happen during "Resolutions".
It could be unresolved sexual tension, but I actually think that it's more than that. Unfortunately, this is one thing that the "lack of continuity" problem really clouds up in Voyager's run.
"Resolutions" happened near the end of Season 2. Basically Janeway and Chakotay spent something like 6 weeks alone on New Earth, thinking that they were stranded for the rest of their lives. At first, Janeway stays focused on finding a way to leave until the plasma storm destroys her equipment and forces her to accept their fate. They get to know and understand each other in the insuing weeks. How intimate that "knowing" might be is conjecture; some believe they were lovers, others don't. However, to me, the "resolution" that comes out of the experience is that Chakotay truly becomes her ally and the possibility of a Maquis mutiny is over for good. They are, from then on, a true command team and, to a certain extent, good, close friends.
"Scorpion" comes along a year later and spans the end of Season 3 and the beginning of Season 4. At the beginning of this two-part episode, we see the command team in its purest form. It's in "Scorpion 1" that Janeway says that she can't imagine a day without him, and Chakotay assures her that she's not alone. All of that falls apart when Janeway makes her "pact with the devil" and forms an alliance with the Borg. I think that this crisis puts the command team and the friendship in mortal danger. It becomes a personal betrayal for her and an inability to support her for him. She doubts him for the first time, and he doubts her, too. Then, along comes Seven of Nine to really put the friendship under a strain--Chakotay wants her gone, Janeway wants to keep her with them.
The problem is that the focus of the series steers away from J and C after this point. I am sure that they continue to struggle with their working and personal relationship, but we just don't have time given to it. We see more and more of Seven and the EMH in the following seasons. I think this is one reason that fanfic writers are so intrigued by the J/C relationship. It was definitely there at one point, and then the writers just ignored it! What a shame that they didn't continue to hint, once in awhile, at what might be transpiring between them. A little unresolved sexual tension would have added a lot to the show IMHO.
For me it was about trust as well. J and C are close, especially after their experiences on New Earth in Resolutions, so when they work together well, it's good. But when they are in conflict, it is not just between two comrades - it gets personal, even though both of them would want to keep their personal feelings aside in such situations.
The problem is that the focus of the series steers away from J and C after this point. I am sure that they continue to struggle with their working and personal relationship, but we just don't have time given to it. We see more and more of Seven and the EMH in the following seasons. I think this is one reason that fanfic writers are so intrigued by the J/C relationship. It was definitely there at one point, and then the writers just ignored it! What a shame that they didn't continue to hint, once in awhile, at what might be transpiring between them. A little unresolved sexual tension would have added a lot to the show IMHO.
I agree their was a definate focus shift not just from J&C but from Tuvok, etc. Still, folks managed to find hints in the final three seasons up until after "Shattered" - at least enough to feed the imaginations of the fanfiction writers.
However, we got all those lovely dinner scenes after Scorpion, on season 5. What was up with that? 
The dialogue in Timeless for instance, in engineering - yes; some might say there was no flirtatious aspect in it, but for me there was. But on the other hand - I see many things though my J/C glasses.
The dialogue in Timeless for instance, in engineering - yes; some might say there was no flirtatious aspect in it, but for me there was. But on the other hand - I see many things though my J/C glasses.
K
Kahiara
Guest
I'm such a die-hard JC-er. If I get a husband I worry we'll end up role-playing the too haha (*worry* -cough-). No but seriously they are like my Cinderella and Prince Charming. Prince Charming didn't run after Cindy with the slipper - he let his butler, and then what did he do all evening with all those girls. Anyway. In my head, just after they get home in the borg cube they bring 7's soul mate (whom I call the guy from the episode where they are in the borg like dream zone and she was really sad he was on the other side of the galaxy).
...If I have children, I will be telling them a story about a starship stranded far far away from home and a lady who wanted to bring everyone she loved back to those who loved them. A mission so dear to her she couldn't compromise for a second and lose herself in the man she loved with all her heart - or she might forget the need to go home as her home would be right there in his arms...
HEHE. That will be the highlight of parenting for me. Indoctrinating a J/Cer.
...If I have children, I will be telling them a story about a starship stranded far far away from home and a lady who wanted to bring everyone she loved back to those who loved them. A mission so dear to her she couldn't compromise for a second and lose herself in the man she loved with all her heart - or she might forget the need to go home as her home would be right there in his arms...
HEHE. That will be the highlight of parenting for me. Indoctrinating a J/Cer.
