The Glaring Plot Hole of TWOK

[Bry_Sinclair]

The U.S.S. Reliant is a survey ship on loan for the Genesis Project, so the ship will obviously have sensors, as well as cartographers, planetary geologists, mathematicians, or at least someone who would know how to count planets from one to six and notice an issue with the system, to say nothing of the debris field an exploding planet would leave even after twenty years.

Don't know why this has just popped into my head, but its one of those things that once you realise you suddenly can't stop pondering over. It is possible the explosion of the planet caused a lot of radiation or other interference, the former might not be great for trying to create a brand new life-sustaining planet but the latter would definitely help keep it secret from the likes of the Klingons.

Any other theories to patch this hole? Or any other plot holes in the films no one really mentions?

 

[FormerLurker]

There has been much discussion about your first paragraph. I think we can safely dismiss such discussion here.

That said, the question of why Ceti Alpha Six would be on Doctor Marcus's list of potentials, given the factors you bring up, becomes an interesting one. Why would she want a planet that could be exposed to such potential threats by its own environment? Is the Genesis experiment one where the environment is part of the experiment?

 

[F. King Daniel]

It makes no sense whatsoever that they'd think Ceti Alpha V was Ceti Alpha VI. After Vi exploded, there were only five damn planets left.

Then there's questions about how Khan has changed skin colour, how his followers have been changed to Aryan teenagers.

And why does the Genesis device make a PLANET (and star) out of a NEBULA? That makes less than no sense. It would be like a Roomba doing dishes. It was programmed in a specific way explained in the movie, then it does something completely different because dramatic scene.

And why does engineering spawn a side room where Spock has to... stir soup with his hands? (according to the script, he's playing with dilithium crystals in there but it sure doesn't look it) to fix the engines? And why is the thing Spock plays with not even connected to the intermix core the previous movie establishes is the power source for the Enterprise?

Why does the Enterprise need to manually load torpedoes now, which are physical missiles suddenly after The Making of Star Trek established they were energy weapons?

Why do they play Amazing Grace at the funeral of a guy who lived as Vulcan as possible?

Why is Spock a Captain after TOS established he had no interest in Starship command?

Why does this movie ignore the end of The Motion Picture, where the crew flew off together TOS-style?



This has been, if Wrath of Khan were released in 2013.

 

[Warped9]

TMP is referenced as happening just under 3 years after the end of the 5-year mission. TWOK is referenced as happening about 15 years after “Space Seed” which happened in Year 1 or 2 of the 5-year mission. So that puts TWOK about 7-8 years after TMP. So another 5-year voyage could have taken place between TMP and TWOK.

TMP looks quite different than TOS such that it’s a challenge to accept it as happening so soon after TOS. It would have made more sense if TMP had been set 10 years after TOS to more credibly account for the different look of Starfleet, the ship and the crew’s apparent ages. In this TWOK worked in taking the 15 year passage of time since “Space Seed” into account which gels with 1967 + 15 = 1982.

An officer can be a Captain without actually commanding a ship, although in this case Spock does command the Enterprise while training cadets (a horrible waste of his talents).

I do object to the Enterprise being depicted as cutting edge in TMP only to be depicted as a cadet training ship only 8 years later.

TMP showed our heroes ready to set out for new adventures. TWOK depicted them as ready to be put out to pasture.

TWOK is riddled with logic flaws.

 

[ColdFusion180]

The U.S.S. Reliant is a survey ship on loan for the Genesis Project, so the ship will obviously have sensors, as well as cartographers, planetary geologists, mathematicians, or at least someone who would know how to count planets from one to six and notice an issue with the system, to say nothing of the debris field an exploding planet would leave even after twenty years.

Don't know why this has just popped into my head, but its one of those things that once you realise you suddenly can't stop pondering over. It is possible the explosion of the planet caused a lot of radiation or other interference, the former might not be great for trying to create a brand new life-sustaining planet but the latter would definitely help keep it secret from the likes of the Klingons.

Any other theories to patch this hole? Or any other plot holes in the films no one really mentions?

Several writers have briefly addressed this issue in their novels. In particular are Star Trek: TOS "The Eugenics Wars - Book 3" by Greg Cox and Star Trek: Vanguard "Storming Heaven" by David Mack. Basically, their reasons for the misidentification are a combination of secrecy, false assumptions and a cover up.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

There's a lot of dumb in TWOK to make the movie actually happen.

 

[fireproof78]

Since when? TWOK is perfect!

​

 

[oldtrekkie]

TWOK is nothing but plot holes. You have to ignore them in order to appreciate it. In fact, you have to do that with all the st movies, even more so with the new ones.

But since we are in the thread that talks of these holes, let's review some of them... (It's nearly impossible to review all of them as they are so many, you're bound to overlook a few)... Anway:

1) The genesis device is absurd, it's ridiculous!! life even in its simplest form is way too complex to be caused by an explosion, even a "smart" explosion. Plus plant life is not the simplest form of life, it's extremely complex... So complex life created by an explosion!!! Yeah, in fairytales only.

2) Khan's planet has only ONE remaining indigenous lifeform... so what is it eating... dirt!!!

3) Khan's genius allowed them to survive on a barren planet... eating what? Dirt?

4) The planet contained one indigenous lifeform plus Khan and his people.. but they couldn't even be sure that there was life there! How come? What was wrong with their instruments?

5) The whole senior staff of the Enterprise is participating in order to test ONE cadet? Wow! Do they do that for each cadet or is Saavik someone special? If so, why? Can you imagine the whole staff repeating the same things fifty times n a row in order to test ALL CADETS! Ridiculously improbable, I'd say.

6) Who's the inventor of the genesis device? Is it Carol or her son? Sometimes it's her sometimes it's him? Make up your mind.

7) I don't care how upset Khan is in this film. He doesn't behave like a genius to me, in fact, most of the time he's not even an average person. Plus what kind of genius doesn't know that there are three dimensions in space?

I have a hundred more like that if you're interested.

 

[Warped9]

TWOK is nothing but plot holes. You have to ignore them in order to appreciate it. In fact, you have to do that with all the st movies, even more so with the new ones.

But since we are in the thread that talks of these holes, let's review some of them... (It's nearly impossible to review all of them as they are so many, you're bound to overlook a few)... Anway:

1) The genesis device is absurd, it's ridiculous!! life even in its simplest form is way too complex to be caused by an explosion, even a "smart" explosion. Plus plant life is not the simplest form of life, it's extremely complex... So complex life created by an explosion!!! Yeah, in fairytales only.

2) Khan's planet has only ONE remaining indigenous lifeform... so what is it eating... dirt!!!

3) Khan's genius allowed them to survive on a barren planet... eating what? Dirt?

4) The planet contained one indigenous lifeform plus Khan and his people.. but they couldn't even be sure that there was life there! How come? What was wrong with their instruments?

5) The whole senior staff of the Enterprise is participating in order to test ONE cadet? Wow! Do they do that for each cadet or is Saavik someone special? If so, why? Can you imagine the whole staff repeating the same things fifty times n a row in order to test ALL CADETS! Ridiculously improbable, I'd say.

6) Who's the inventor of the genesis device? Is it Carol or her son? Sometimes it's her sometimes it's him? Make up your mind.

7) I don't care how upset Khan is in this film. He doesn't behave like a genius to me, in fact, most of the time he's not even an average person. Plus what kind of genius doesn't know that there are three dimensions in space?

I have a hundred more like that if you're interested.

Agreed on all points except regarding the cadets. I never got the impression Saavik was the only one being tested.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Agreed on all points except regarding the cadets. I never got the impression Saavik was the only one being tested.

The Kobayashi Maru (as is presented) is only a test for one person, the one in the captain's chair, the others could as well be replaced by mannequins or holograms, they are just following orders which is why I don't get why the entire senior staff (with the exception of Kirk) is participating. It seems like a lot of time and effort is put into testing one person. Can you picture the whole team (Spock, Sulu, Uhura...) doing this exercise fifty times? I can't.

 

[SithHappens]

Dont forget Scotty thinking the best place to take his dying/dead nephew is the bridge.

 

[Finn]

5) The whole senior staff of the Enterprise is participating in order to test ONE cadet? Wow! Do they do that for each cadet or is Saavik someone special? If so, why? Can you imagine the whole staff repeating the same things fifty times n a row in order to test ALL CADETS! Ridiculously improbable, I'd say.

I do agree it was a bit confusing, but I always figured it was more like a command school. But I did find it weird all of the TOS gang was around.

 

[Finn]

Dont forget Scotty thinking the best place to take his dying/dead nephew is the bridge.

McCoy was always on the bridge on TOS

 

[SithHappens]

McCoy was always on the bridge on TOS

Even more ridiculous.

Plus I assume he wasn't the only trained medical professional onboard. I still think taking someone to sick bay with its numerous medical staff and life saving equipment would be a better idea than traipsing off to the bridge to find a negligent McCoy.

 

[Finn]

Even more ridiculous.

Plus I assume he wasn't the only trained medical professional onboard. I still think taking someone to sick bay with its numerous medical staff and life saving equipment would be a better idea than traipsing off to the bridge to find a negligent McCoy.

Shock. People sometimes do weird things. It's just a movie.

 

[Transaction Declined]

Beaming Chekov and Terrell down to the Genesis Cave - after they both admitted to being exposed to an alien mind-controlling organism by Khan - was probably the single most egregious example of idiot plotting (the idiot being McCoy for not whipping out his medical tricorder the second they found them stuffed in a locker) in the entire film. Well that and conveniently forgetting the Enterprise was equipped with fully automatic shield activation since at least as far back as Errand of Mercy.

 

[SithHappens]

Shock. People sometimes do weird things. It's just a movie.

Of course, but you could say that about the whole thread, its only people posting tongue in cheek

 

[Warped9]

I quite enjoyed TWOK when it was released, but the years and subsequent viewings have not been kind to it as more and more and more holes became apparent.

It was intended as a reboot of the franchise, but it also came across as meant to erase TMP given it starts out almost exactly the same way with Kirk being unhappily desk bound. And it set out to deconstruct the characters which followed throughout the subsequent films.

Finally it became the template that pretty much all the following films have sought to emulate.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I could forgive Chekov for not knowing Ceti Alpha V was where Khan was sent to if he wasn't a member of Kirk's "command crew" at the time and wasn't privy to the information. And given how many systems the Enterprise went to during the 5-year mission, he'd probably need a PADD always on hand to keep track of which one was which (I know I can't remember all of them in TOS, and I've got the benefit of rewatching them).

As far as not knowing there was a missing planet in the Ceti Alpha System, it's possible that the system was only given a brief cursory survey decades ago and may only have been catalogued at the time as "mostly harmless."

 

[XCV330]

Planets randomly exploding was another one. Planets don't do that. Starfleet would almost certainly have noticed something like that at least after YEARS. A sub plot could be made that Khan made it happen due to some failed attempt to escape his exile, but TWOK doesnt work like that. You just have to accept everything that doesn't make sense to enjoy it. It was a script written at breakneck speed and it shows.