The format war is over...Warner goes BluRay exclusive!

[Daedalus12]

USS KG5 said:

Would it not be nice if in additon to lossless downloads they switched to HIGHER than CD quality, so when getting a download you actually got a file of equivalent to DVD-Audio or SACD quality? Certainly a nice benefit for hi-fi enthusiasts.

Not really. Unless you think I want a shitload of inaudible spectrum.

Nyquist's theorem is pretty straightforward on the minimum sampling rate needed to reconstruct a signal: it's just 2 times the maximum bandwidth. Well our ears can only hear up to 22,000 hz so theoretically 44 khz is sufficient. The sampling rate on a compact disc is usually 44.1 khz so there is really no need for the whopping 96 khz available on DVD-Audio.

Likewise 16 bit depth is also enough for any quantization error to be inaudible. Hell in these days the sound engineers don't even use any more than a small fraction of the available 96 db range because all of them want to make their music as evenly loud as possible.

Flavius said:
Was it on this site - or some other place where I read it today? Don't recall, but for one there are scientific studies out there proving that people have a hard time telling if there are looking at 480 or 720p.

It was between 720p and 1080p. You might be interested in this chart.

http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/hdtv_distance_chart.pdf

One thing is for sure though. The qualitative visual difference between DVD and Blu-Ray is pretty significant.

You need a native 1080p capable TV to really benefit from this. I wouldn't be surprised if this takes another couple years even after this news today. The industry, though, can speed things up a bit by lowering the prize significantly.

True like I said before the biggest obstacle to HD adoption isn't the cost of the titles or players but the price of the TVs. DVDs during its early days was also a very expensive commodity but at least you can use it with existing TVs. It would be pointless to show Blu-Ray on a low def TV even if it's possible.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ At least you can get a BluRay player now, and use it with your existing TV (even if you wouldn't realize the added quality), and then have it all ready for you when you eventually get a HDTV.

 

[Flavius]

While you don't gain anything, you are paying more for the player.

 

[kipron]

BluRay and HD-DVD both lack imagination imho.

Call me when they start using UV lasers.

 

[Russ]

Here's an interesting situation. Why would Paramount/DreamWorks or Universal go Blu-ray exclusive unless they get a similar payout that WB got ($500 million)? Plus Fox is rumored to have received money as well.

With HDM sales so low, what's the incentive for them to switch without getting money?

 

[Daedalus12]

Russ said:
Here's an interesting situation. Why would Paramount/DreamWorks or Universal go Blu-ray exclusive unless they get a similar payout that WB got ($500 million). Plus Fox is rumored to have received money as well.

With HDM sales so low, what's the incentive for them to switch without getting money?

The rumour sounds like hogwash to me. I am sure somebody got paid off just not half a fucking billion dollars.

The reason they might switch fast because at this pont Toshiba might capitulate and the 2 studios also want to end the war officially as soon as possible. Universal might go first considering paramount might have an ironclad contract with no escape clause.

 

[Russ]

I've seen the reports on several outlets, I think it's very safe to assume they (and Fox before them) were paid, and they were paid A LOT.

I understand that, but the thing is, with WB and Fox getting money from the BDA (and P/DW from the HD DVD group), why the heck would P/DW or Universal go over to Blu-ray unless they too were paid?

I mean, they sold what, a combined 8 million discs in 2007? That's what Transformers and At World's End sold in ONE DAY on DVD.

Unless sales pick up big time, there will be no incentive for those two companies to switch.

Oh well. Come on BDA. Give me a $250 Profile 2.0 player, and please get serious about interactivity.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Universal and Paramount will basically have no choice but to switch. Deserting a sinking ship (HD-DVD) and all that.

 

[Russ]

That's really not true though. If pressured by the public to switch, they could easily argue that HDM hasn't matured enough, and they'll re-evaluate the situation in later months.

Again, there isn't much money, if at all, being made on HDM right now. Because of that, they most certainly do have a choice.

By the way, there's even talk now that Weinstein is asking for more money from the BDA to release on Blu-ray. Why not ask for money when everyone else is?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

With the choice of supporting an obsolete format (HD-DVD) or a proven one which is selling like hotcakes (BluRay), it will be obvious to them.

 

[Russ]

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. Though Blu-ray was outselling HD DVD, sales on both sides were quite low.

If Blu-ray takes off, I agree with you. If it doesn't, there will be no incentive for them to switch unless money is provided.

 

[Daedalus12]

Russ said:
I've seen the reports on several outlets, I think it's very safe to assume they (and Fox before them) were paid, and they were paid A LOT.

And there are also several outlets saying Warner exec denied any payouts. Either way half a billion sounds like a number some HD fanboy pulled out of his arse.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

BluRay sales aren't that low.

And even so, they'll be better than HD-DVD.

Seems obvious which one to pick.

Repeat: HD-DVD is an obsolete format. It's DEAD. Everyone knows that now. I am sure Paramount and Universal both do. The format war is over, and BluRay WON. However badly you think either HD format is selling, BluRay will, by definition, be selling better than an *obsolete format*.

 

[rType]

MD beat DCC, most still consider it a failure though.

 

[Noname Given]

Russ said:
Here's an interesting situation. Why would Paramount/DreamWorks or Universal go Blu-ray exclusive unless they get a similar payout that WB got ($500 million)? Plus Fox is rumored to have received money as well.

With HDM sales so low, what's the incentive for them to switch without getting money?

Considering that Paramount got at least (I think) a $150 million 'bonus' to sign the HD-DVD exclusive contract - maybe they would have gone Blu-Ray had Sony matched or beat that offer (I don't think Universal got a 'payoff' per se though.

Either way, I'm pretty sure that Paramount and Universal will start producing Blu-Ray discs once the HD-DVD exclusive contracts are up given what's just been announced by Warners - not to mention the sales figurges of Blu-Ray (assuming they are somewhat accurate).

 

[USS KG5]

Daedalus12 said:
Nyquist's theorem is pretty straightforward on the minimum sampling rate needed to reconstruct a signal: it's just 2 times the maximum bandwidth. Well our ears can only hear up to 22,000 hz so theoretically 44 khz is sufficient. The sampling rate on a compact disc is usually 44.1 khz so there is really no need for the whopping 96 khz available on DVD-Audio.

I know about Nyquists theorem and it makes perfect sense along those lines, but there is the issue of what we cannot hear but are aware of, certianly there is a certain warmth and character to the sound of vinyl records which has always been absent from CD.

DVD-Audio and SACD do sound extremely good, and whether this can be put down more to the 96/24 encoding or the fact you get excellent recording quality and surround mixes is up to some debate.

There are certainly no humans who can hear 25KHz but there is something a bit different about the sound from those formats.

Likewise 16 bit depth is also enough for any quantization error to be inaudible. Hell in these days the sound engineers don't even use any more than a small fraction of the available 96 db range because all of them want to make their music as evenly loud as possible.

Yes, well recorded music is staggeringly rare sadly.

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

Noname Given said:

Russ said:
Here's an interesting situation. Why would Paramount/DreamWorks or Universal go Blu-ray exclusive unless they get a similar payout that WB got ($500 million)? Plus Fox is rumored to have received money as well.

With HDM sales so low, what's the incentive for them to switch without getting money?

Considering that Paramount got at least (I think) a $150 million 'bonus' to sign the HD-DVD exclusive contract - maybe they would have gone Blu-Ray had Sony matched or beat that offer (I don't think Universal got a 'payoff' per se though.

Either way, I'm pretty sure that Paramount and Universal will start producing Blu-Ray discs once the HD-DVD exclusive contracts are up given what's just been announced by Warners - not to mention the sales figurges of Blu-Ray (assuming they are somewhat accurate).

WB execs say they didn't get a payoff. What fox got I think was getting some kind of encryption scheme or security program of theirs as part of the blu-ray standard. Disney got the Java menu system they wanted for their interactive features. Most likely everybody's getting something out of it.

It really must have been a quick decision, because as of the moment before the news broke, the program for the HD-DVD presentation still listed WB as being one of the presenters at their show.

 

[Irishman]

USS KG5 said:

Noname Given said:
Also, as an IT professional who's had to suffer through Microsoft's dominayion of the industry and deal with their piss-poor code over the years; it's nice to see Bill Gates loose a battle in the marketplace.

Sad thing is he hasn't - Bill backed a horse in a race he knew was going to be won by the horse he has put a lot more money on - downloaded HD content.

MS are positioning themselves for this market. The cock up he has made is that MS spent so much time pacifying the big corporations with Vista he neglected to do anything for the consumer.

It can still be turned around though - remember they were VERY late for the Internet revolution and they won that battle.

I suspect there will be an upsurge in Vista's popularity when SP1 comes out as well.

How exactly did MS "win" the internet battle? Which battle might that have been?

 

[scotthm]

Babaganoosh said:
With the choice of supporting an obsolete format (HD-DVD) or a proven one which is selling like hotcakes (BluRay), it will be obvious to them.

Blu-Ray is not selling like hotcakes. Neither format is selling in large numbers compared to DVD, and probably won't until the price disparity between Blu-Ray discs and DVDs comes way down.

Also, many homes have just one HD TV, but several other TVs and DVD players that won't be able to play any Blu-Ray discs purchased, so a lot of people will just keep buying DVDs for some time to come so they can watch them in various rooms of the house.

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[scotthm]

Capt. Vulcan said:
WB execs say they didn't get a payoff. ...It really must have been a quick decision, because as of the moment before the news broke, the program for the HD-DVD presentation still listed WB as being one of the presenters at their show.

I believe the basic story can be found in this post at the Home Theater Forum.

Further down the thread it's implied by someone I consider reliable that WB got something on the order of $500M for their decision.

I think Sony absolutely cannot allow Blu-Ray to fail, because they have too much invested in it and the PS3, which depends on Blu-Ray. They had to do whatever it took to keep the studios in the Blu-Ray camp.

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