• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers The Flash - Season 6

Christopher said:
Like I said, Sawyer himself accepts it as justified and has already apologized, which pretty much settles the debate. No point arguing it's excessive when he has literally thanked them for it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but in a situation like this you kind of have to act like that, or all you'll do is make things worse for yourself.
Lots of other people have resigned from their jobs when past statements like this have come to light. It's not ridiculous, it's a way of taking responsibility and making amends. Too many people in today's society reject the idea of responsibility and just try to dodge and deny and make excuses. That's how we got into the current mess.
Click to expand...
Which is fine when the stuff is current or fairly recent, but here we're talking about 8 years, almost a decade. That is more than enough time for a person to change, and grow, and stop this kind of behavior.

There's also the question of the people he'd have to work with if he stayed on the show. Eric Wallace and Grant Gustin have both said in their statements that they were very angry when they learned of Sawyer's tweets. How can you ask Wallace and Jesse L. Martin and Candice Patton and Danielle Nicolet to just quietly accept working with someone who thought it was funny to demean their race? It's unfair to expect that of them, especially with all that's going on in the country right now.
Click to expand...
I would like to think that they are able to recognize that people can change in almost a decade.
Like I said before, I am not defending the Tweets, my issue is purely with amount of time. If he was Tweeting this kind of stuff today, or especially if he was acting this way on set, I would be fully supportive of him being fired.
I just think people deserve to be forgiven for things they said in the past, especially if they have already apologized, and moved on from that kind of stuff.
 
Like with James Gunn, I don't think Hartley should be fired for tweets he made 8 years ago. It's a chance to take responsibility, apologize to his fans/audience and learn from it. "Canceling" people doesn't seem like a productive exercise.
 
captain crow said:
You can write off a character without killing them off.

All you need is a line or two about them having left or simply don't acknowledge their absence at all.
Click to expand...
Yeah but that’s not fun. I hope it’s better than what they did to Dean Cain’s character
 
captain crow said:
You can write off a character without killing them off.

All you need is a line or two about them having left or simply don't acknowledge their absence at all.
Click to expand...

thribs said:
Yeah but that’s not fun. I hope it’s better than what they did to Dean Cain’s character
Click to expand...

Let's start a hash tag.

Where is #MaxLord, #JeremiahDanvers, #SilverBanshee, and #Ragman?

Forgotten characters that never came back.
 
Ovation said:
Umm. No. I won’t argue against the point here (wrong forum). I will merely point out the fact that free speech is something the government cannot stifle. Private companies, like the production company making the show, are not bound by the same rule.
Click to expand...

I feel free speech is bigger than a companies rights when it comes to people's free speech because the principle of everyone being able to say what they want is a key component to human freedom. I agree though this isn't the place to really talk about it. As for the character they should just write him off and bring back John Diggle as the Green Lantern.

Jason
 
I have a strong feeling that his recent behavior is why someone looked up his old tweets. I used to follow him on a Twitter and early this year stopped. Any time he posted political posts he used obnoxious and crass language to attack candidates who we’re not his pick for the Democratic nomination.

Typical Twitter poster? Sure, but he had a high job profile and should have presented himself better. This is not about his specific views but how he posted them.

I was a fan but did not like how he posted. This was very recent. If that is his real personality it probably reflects how he acts on set too.

I hope theY recast. Most of all keep Natalie Dreyfus as Sue. She is awesome!

edit - these discovered old posts are horrible. At same time I was not completely shocked either. He could have deleted any of his old posts at any time. He only did so when he was caught and fired.
 
Last edited:
M.A.C.O. said:
Let's start a hash tag.

Where is #MaxLord, #JeremiahDanvers, #SilverBanshee, and #Ragman?

Forgotten characters that never came back.
Click to expand...
Slightly different. They were never main characters.
Plus it’s easy to assume that they’re either in jail or don’t exist post Crisis.
 
JD said:
Yeah, but in a situation like this you kind of have to act like that, or all you'll do is make things worse for yourself.
Click to expand...

Yes -- like I said, it's called taking responsibility. That's a good thing.


Which is fine when the stuff is current or fairly recent, but here we're talking about 8 years, almost a decade. That is more than enough time for a person to change, and grow, and stop this kind of behavior.
Click to expand...

If they actually have done so. The fact that his colleagues and friends -- including a black showrunner and costars -- had to learn about it this way, that he kept it hidden from them all these years, makes it questionable to claim that he's learned anything other than how to conceal it. Nobody is automatically entitled to be forgiven for bigoted words or actions. They have to prove they've earned it.

As I keep saying, there is abundant precedent for people stepping down from their jobs when past indiscretions are revealed. Politicians have resigned because of affairs committed years before, or the like. It's a matter of trust. Yes, the actions may have been years ago, but if they undermine the people's trust in them, that can undermine their ability to do the job, and if they care more about the good of the institution than about their own ego or entitlement, they will step down in favor of someone less tainted. I don't understand why you're so shocked as if this has never happened before. It's a pretty common consequence when indiscretions that someone has kept secret are finally exposed. The very fact that they hid the indiscretions from their colleagues and employers calls their trustworthiness into question.


I just think people deserve to be forgiven for things they said in the past, especially if they have already apologized, and moved on from that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...

Like I keep saying -- resignation is often how you apologize, how you make penance. It's the first step in that process. It's ludicrous to say anyone has "moved on" when it's only just come out. We're nowhere near the "moved on" point yet.

And frankly I find it very offensive that you seem to care more about defending a white man's privilege to be excused for racism and homophobia than you care about the feelings of his numerous black and gay colleagues who feel justifiably betrayed, hurt, and angry by his actions and can't just casually dismiss them. Try considering their point of view.
 
I've already seen online talk from people that think they should get Brett Dier (Jane the Virgin, Schooled) to take over the role of Ralph. Their reasons: He's a known commodity for The CW, Schooled has been cancelled and he is a close enough match to Hartley Sawyer's look. Dier actually played the alternate reality human Clark Kent in the Smallville episode "Apocalypse".
 
Christopher said:
Yes -- like I said, it's called taking responsibility. That's a good thing.




If they actually have done so. The fact that his colleagues and friends -- including a black showrunner and costars -- had to learn about it this way, that he kept it hidden from them all these years, makes it questionable to claim that he's learned anything other than how to conceal it. Nobody is automatically entitled to be forgiven for bigoted words or actions. They have to prove they've earned it.

As I keep saying, there is abundant precedent for people stepping down from their jobs when past indiscretions are revealed. Politicians have resigned because of affairs committed years before, or the like. It's a matter of trust. Yes, the actions may have been years ago, but if they undermine the people's trust in them, that can undermine their ability to do the job, and if they care more about the good of the institution than about their own ego or entitlement, they will step down in favor of someone less tainted. I don't understand why you're so shocked as if this has never happened before. It's a pretty common consequence when indiscretions that someone has kept secret are finally exposed. The very fact that they hid the indiscretions from their colleagues and employers calls their trustworthiness into question.




Like I keep saying -- resignation is often how you apologize, how you make penance. It's the first step in that process. It's ludicrous to say anyone has "moved on" when it's only just come out. We're nowhere near the "moved on" point yet.

And frankly I find it very offensive that you seem to care more about defending a white man's privilege to be excused for racism and homophobia than you care about the feelings of his numerous black and gay colleagues who feel justifiably betrayed, hurt, and angry by his actions and can't just casually dismiss them. Try considering their point of view.
Click to expand...

We know why people don't come forward and apologize. It does no good. CW doesn't give a shit if he feels bad or anything. They only care about bad publicity and the public isn't going to care either because he isn't a person to the people. He is just a story and something to rail about either to get clicks or make people feel superior for being so much better than him. Yes it happens all the time but the point is it shouldn't. None of what some person does away from work should matter to other people. They aren't his family they are his co-workers. Sometimes you have co-workers you like and sometimes you don't but in the end as long as you do your job and they do theirs that is all that matters.

Unless he was disruptive on the set and evading people's personal boundaries then what does his old tweets have to do with anything other than a momentary reflection of his sense of humor back in the past. He has been on the show now for 2 years so I am guessing he hasn't been much of a issue or he would have been fired. Not to mention I really just hate letting people who scroll through people's past looking for stuff just to fuck people over get a win. Reminds me those people who would dig through celebrates literal trash looking for something to do a story in those National Enquier mags back in the day.


Jason
 
I was thinking a reverse Identity Crisis where Ralph is murdered instead of Sue... Two things but, you can't kill the Elongated man by jumping on his brain, and...

Doctor Light was Earth 2, Linda Park played by Malese Jow, and that's just weird. Not impossible, but weird.

Also, I have zero recollection of Linda being Barry's love interest, so I might have to rewatch the earlier seasons.
 
You know maybe if he is gone they should just use this as a means of bringing down the cast. It was getting pretty big as it is. Just go with the original gang and Cecile. People keep saying we need more Flash on the show so lets have more Flash. I even say kill Frost. Let him be the only one with powers except Cecile's mind reading stuff which isn't really used to fight crime anyways.

Jason
 
Reducing cast, and moving the money around will have consequences?

The producer has an agreement with the CW about how their funds are allocated, so if they want to make changes, so will the CW, and the Ralph money will vanish.

Maybe.
 
KennyB said:
Nope---they only apologize if they get caught. I'm 49......have been on social media platforms for a long time. I have yet to use racial slurs or talk about beating my wife. It is NOT that hard NOT to do.
Click to expand...

He's just doing edgelord humor. Literally the same thing James Gunn did. That's why they call it edgy and dirty and offensive. It's suppose to be. Just go watch some stand up comedy, especially in the past. They do stuff that made that stuff look tame.

Jason
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top