Spoilers The Flash - Season 4

[Christopher]

The difference is Devoe is a metahuman, Adrian Chase was not. Adrian was just a guy who plotted things in advance really well to stay ahead of Arrow.

True, although now that the comparison has been raised, it occurs to me that they're similar in that their origins both tie back to the beginnings of their respective series. Prometheus/Morrison/Chase was "created" by Oliver's actions in early season 1, and the Thinker was "created" by piggybacking off the dark matter explosion.

Ooh, one more detail indicating that the DeVoes weren't exactly benevolent to start with: According to their dialogue outside STAR Labs after Thawne/Wells's press conference, they both were able to predict that "Wells" intended to cause an explosion that would create a large number of metahumans, and they were okay with letting it happen just so they could power DeVoe's Thinking Cap. That's a pretty extreme level of selfishness and disregard for consequences to others.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Other than those building fins that fell off... And a few dozen people tuning into gods...

What did the explosion really do that was so bad?

 

[Icemizer]

I found the prediction of the accelerator failure a weak point of the story. At that time he was not the Thinker and to make that prediction and figure out the perfect place to stand to power the cap was far fetched at a minimum. Though I did enjor Wells/Thawne knowing who they were.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Cliff stood as close to the accelerator as he could, and he was wrong on the math that the accelerator would blow if it run per specifications, but he was right about the psychology that Thawne would blow the bastard up just because he wanted to, which is again wrong because Thawne is not Wells.

What the Prethinker could not have accounted for was the lightning bolt, or the thremocore, which thankfully did not factor into his new powerset.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I remember somebody--I think it was John Byrne--saying that the problem with super-intelligent villains is that you have to write somebody who's supposed to be smarter than you.

 

[Christopher]

I found the prediction of the accelerator failure a weak point of the story. At that time he was not the Thinker and to make that prediction and figure out the perfect place to stand to power the cap was far fetched at a minimum. Though I did enjor Wells/Thawne knowing who they were.

Well, he and Marlize were already geniuses -- DeVoe just didn't think he was brilliant enough, that he needed even more. They had to be brilliant enough to start with to invent a way to make him even more brilliant.

I remember somebody--I think it was John Byrne--saying that the problem with super-intelligent villains is that you have to write somebody who's supposed to be smarter than you.

I came to the realization quite a few years ago that it's not hard to write characters who are smarter than I am, because I can spend weeks of thought and research and consultation with other smart people to come up with solutions that my characters figure out on the spot all by themselves. Or I can work backward from a solution I already know and figure out how they'd deduce it from scratch.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I remember somebody--I think it was John Byrne--saying that the problem with super-intelligent villains is that you have to write somebody who's supposed to be smarter than you.

This from one of the seminal authors behind the minds of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The difference is Devoe is a metahuman, Adrian Chase was not. Adrian was just a guy who plotted things in advance really well to stay ahead of Arrow. Devoe's brain has been enhanced by the dark matter explosion and the thinking cap so that his mind is literally superior. So in theory, Devoe should be near unbeatable because it should be impossible to out-think him. Of course, I am sure Team Flash will figure out a way to defeat him nonetheless.

It sure played out like Chase was preternaturally three steps ahead at all times.

 

[Gaith]

Wow, that was a great episode - serious without being pointlessly dark, making us genuinely feel for the antagonists, and harkening back to the show's early days. I'd genuinely forgotten how fresh a full-on superhero show felt back in S1, and how compelling the mystery of Wells' true identity and motives were. We've had major mysteries since, of course, but Savatar in particular was a charisma vacuum for much of the last season.

And then, the series' early episodes really seemed to promise a whole new world of science wonderment, but the show has basically dropped that element entirely, with the odd exception here or there. We should ideally have POTUS asking the Flash to depose foreign dictators, and nefarious plots by General Clancy Brown to weaponize his powers - big, epic, heady stuff. Of course, that could easily be incredibly difficult and expensive to pull off, with potential major repercussions for the rest of the Arrowverse, but LoT has been doing a great job of telling wild, epic stories. It's true their whole premise demands bringing in wildly varied settings and characters on a weekly basis, but I still think Flash could be doing a lot better in this regard. That aside, however, I really enjoyed this ep.

Honestly, [Barry] seemed out of character here, although I guess that's explained by his talk with Iris about being afraid because he has so much more to lose now.

Eh, I'm willing to guess that his "tingling Spider-Sense" was some lingering Speed Force mojo reacting to the proximity of a particularly powerful meta, though it's true he never actually suggested that.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It seemed to me that DeVoe was deliberately pulling Berry strings in such a way that none of the rest of his companions noticed.

 

[Christopher]

It sure played out like Chase was preternaturally three steps ahead at all times.

That's because he had four years to plan his revenge, along with the support of Talia al Ghul. Any sufficiently thorough advance preparation is indistinguishable from magic. Indeed, that's literally how magic (as a form of entertainment/performance) works.

It seemed to me that DeVoe was deliberately pulling Berry strings in such a way that none of the rest of his companions noticed.

Yes, like with the sound that revealed the existence of the camera to Barry, but only when he was alone. The only explanation I can see for Barry hearing that is because the Thinker triggered the sound in order to manipulate him. He probably put up that samurai painting just to mess with Barry too, although it's hard to see why it didn't make Joe suspicious as well.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you can't out think the thinker... Under think him.

Just do stuff randomly.

Or punch the wheel chair man in the throat.

The Thinker can't be such a dick that he hates Barry for stuff that the Thinker only anticipates might happen?

Or do they need Barry to power their Time Door?

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'm thinking that between his ability to alter timelines and cross universes, Barry should be able to throw some sort of probability-defying curve ball at the Thinker...but not until May.

 

[Christopher]

I'm thinking that between his ability to alter timelines and cross universes, Barry should be able to throw some sort of probability-defying curve ball at the Thinker...but not until May.

Since we've been given a fairly sympathetic archnemesis now, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the way to resolve the season arc was not with outsmarting or outfighting the villain, but through making a more emotional appeal. DeVoe is dying; maybe Team Flash could offer to help him somehow. Or maybe convince Marlize to help them shut down his superpowers in order to stop his bodily deterioration, betray him in order to save his life. Maybe this is a case where an act of compassion will save the day -- like what Barry tried to do with Savitar, but more successful.

 

[Icemizer]

Remember while Barry was in the speed force he was experiencing his entire life in a non linear fashion. His battles with DeVoe may have stuck in his subconcious which is what gave him the tingling feeling.

 

[Snaploud]

Since we've been given a fairly sympathetic archnemesis now, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the way to resolve the season arc was not with outsmarting or outfighting the villain, but through making a more emotional appeal. DeVoe is dying; maybe Team Flash could offer to help him somehow. Or maybe convince Marlize to help them shut down his superpowers in order to stop his bodily deterioration, betray him in order to save his life. Maybe this is a case where an act of compassion will save the day -- like what Barry tried to do with Savitar, but more successful.

Well, according to Savitar, Team Flash uses the cerebral inhibitor on DeVoe. I suppose that could allow the team to talk some sense into DeVoe. His super-intellect may be disconnecting him from his empathy.

 

[Christopher]

Well, according to Savitar, Team Flash uses the cerebral inhibitor on DeVoe.

Oh, that's right. But he didn't say whether it succeeded...

I suppose that could allow the team to talk some sense into DeVoe. His super-intellect may be disconnecting him from his empathy.

As I said, we saw that even before his enhancement, he and Marlize were pretty callous about danger to others (letting the accelerator explosion happen) and implicitly planning for some kind of mind control device. They weren't exactly good guys to start with.

 

[Phoenix219]

DC comics don't exist in the DCU.

Marvel has an unchecked monopoly probably.

I think Oliver's kid was playing Injustice 2 on Arrow the other day. Can't help but wonder how THAT happens.....

 

[Phoenix219]

Haha, so the Star Labs explosion created the same type of radiation/dark matter that the Galactic Barrier is made of. Epiphany.

 

[dahj]

I think Oliver's kid was playing Injustice 2 on Arrow the other day.

I think that was Mortal Kombat.