Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

[Dick Whitman]

Shoehorning Supergirl into the Arrowverse would be such a huge retcon. Imagine if Marvel ever gained back the film rights to the X-men. Than decided to pretend that mutants have always been part of their Cinematic Universe all along. They just never mentioned it before...

 

[Commander Richard]

Setting the X-Men films in an alternate timeline like the Arrowverse does with Supergirl could work.

 

[Tosk]

I

I Am a little disappointed about that.

He's a great actor, but another whole season?

He seems like he's going to be overplayed like Sylar from Heroes

I guess they just feel that they really need someone around to dramatically whisper their lines.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Shoehorning Supergirl into the Arrowverse would be such a huge retcon. Imagine if Marvel ever gained back the film rights to the X-men. Than decided to pretend that mutants have always been part of their Cinematic Universe all along. They just never mentioned it before...

Barry beat Thawne to death, before Thawne murdered his mommy.

Dad's not in jail, Iris is not his sister, and Barry probably doesn't have super powers any more, because with out the Reverse Flash speeding #### up, the accelerator explosion isn't destined to happen until 2018 or 2019.

 

[Dick Whitman]

The Jay Garrick reveal is going to give the people who monitor credit submissions at IMDb a headache.

You can create character pages. To see see all the different actors who have played a character in different productions. Sometimes the credited names are different, even if obviously the same character.

So I clicked on Henry Allen. It used to be just all John Wesley Shipp's appearances on the show. Plus M Emmet Walsh appearances on the 1990 series as his Dad. Obviously the same character. Just like saying Sean Connery and Roger Moore, etc both played James Bond.

But now it's this weird combination of everyone who has voiced Jay Garrick in animation and played him on tv. That includes Teddy Sears and John. But they list Henry Allen as an alternate name for Jay Garrick. While that is true for this show it does not really apply to any other version.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Though that has nothing on the page for Eve Teschmacher. http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0000250/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_51

who is Lex Luthor's girlfriend and sister. plus bodyguard/assistant.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Jay Garrick reveal is going to give the people who monitor credit submissions at IMDb a headache.

You can create character pages. To see see all the different actors who have played a character in different productions. Sometimes the credited names are different, even if obviously the same character.

So I clicked on Henry Allen. It used to be just all John Wesley Shipp's appearances on the show. Plus M Emmet Walsh appearances on the 1990 series as his Dad. Obviously the same character. Just like saying Sean Connery and Roger Moore, etc both played James Bond.

But now it's this weird combination of everyone who has voiced Jay Garrick in animation and played him on tv. That includes Teddy Sears and John. But they list Henry Allen as an alternate name for Jay Garrick. While that is true for this show it does not really apply to any other version.

It doesn't apply on this show either. Henry and Jay are separate characters. Henry is from Earth 1 and Jay is from Earth 3. Jay never used the name "Henry Allen". They look alike because they both descend from the Garrick family.

 

[Dick Whitman]

It doesn't apply on this show either. Henry and Jay are separate characters. Henry is from Earth 1 and Jay is from Earth 3. Jay never used the name "Henry Allen". They look alike because they both descend from the Garrick family.

Exactly. Completely different people. That they look a like is unique to this show.

 

[Reverend]

It doesn't apply on this show either. Henry and Jay are separate characters. Henry is from Earth 1 and Jay is from Earth 3. Jay never used the name "Henry Allen". They look alike because they both descend from the Garrick family.

I think it's safe to say that they're genetically identical with the same parents, just like the Earth-2 Wests. It's just for whatever reason, Earth-3's version of Henry went by his mother's name instead of his father's and had a different given name.

It could be as simple as grandpa Allen having died before he could marry grandma Garrick, but not before "Jay" was conceived. Or Jay's parents got divorced and he took his mother's name because Earth-3 Grandpa Allen was an arsehole.
As for the "Jay" part: there's a couple of possibly ways to go with that. One is that it's simply a nickname that stuck. Another is that his first name really is Henry, but "Jay" (or something beginning with "J") is both his and Earth-1 Henry's middle name and he's just always gone by that, just because. Thirdly and most simply; he was just named something different at birth. Perhaps it was determined by a coin-flip or something.

Barry beat Thawne to death, before Thawne murdered his mommy.

Dad's not in jail, Iris is not his sister, and Barry probably doesn't have super powers any more, because with out the Reverse Flash speeding #### up, the accelerator explosion isn't destined to happen until 2018 or 2019.

The real butterfly effect probably kicks in when you take into account that he's crossed into at least two other universes. Removing those actions affects those worlds too. Perhaps this is the multiverse collapse that will end of with Supergirl and the JSA ending up in Earth-1's timeline.
It also occurs to me that Barry just undid his victory over Zoom. With no season 1 Barry, that means there's no singularity wotsit, so Zoom never crosses universes and is currently still terrorising Earth-2. Way to go Barry.

Side note: this also means the real Earth-1 Harrison Wells and Eddy are alive again and probably that Earth-1 Jessie has popped back into existence after Thawne grandfather paradoxed her out.

 

[Gaith]

If his wife never died, would that mean there will be a E1 Jessie?

I'd be fine with that.

I quite enjoyed this finale, and the season as a whole. The time-travel absurdities don't bother me, because a show about someone who can move at blinding speeds, but who will always be challenged by plot necessity to face certain threats/dialogues in real time is totally absurd by definition. I'd also call this season slightly better than S1, which was weighed down by the blah Iris/secret identity melodrama. True, we got a second helping of that with Patty, but VanSanten's screen charm and chemistry with Gustin made their melodrama more palatable. And that cliffhanger... intruiging, no doubt about it!

Season 2 overall grade: B+

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think it's safe to say that they're genetically identical with the same parents, just like the Earth-2 Wests. It's just for whatever reason, Earth-3's version of Henry went by his mother's name instead of his father's and had a different given name.

It could be as simple as grandpa Allen having died before he could marry grandma Garrick, but not before "Jay" was conceived. Or Jay's parents got divorced and he took his mother's name because Earth-3 Grandpa Allen was an arsehole.
As for the "Jay" part: there's a couple of possibly ways to go with that. One is that it's simply a nickname that stuck. Another is that his first name really is Henry, but "Jay" (or something beginning with "J") is both his and Earth-1 Henry's middle name and he's just always gone by that, just because. Thirdly and most simply; he was just named something different at birth. Perhaps it was determined by a coin-flip or something.




The real butterfly effect probably kicks in when you take into account that he's crossed into at least two other universes. Removing those actions affects those worlds too. Perhaps this is the multiverse collapse that will end of with Supergirl and the JSA ending up in Earth-1's timeline.
It also occurs to me that Barry just undid his victory over Zoom. With no season 1 Barry, that means there's no singularity wotsit, so Zoom never crosses universes and is currently still terrorising Earth-2. Way to go Barry.

Side note: this also means the real Earth-1 Harrison Wells and Eddy are alive again and probably that Earth-1 Jessie has popped back into existence after Thawne grandfather paradoxed her out.

The original real Zoom may never have found out about earth 1 because Barry never made the universe shredding time tornado at the end of season one, BUT... Every Time remnant made by Barry, Eobard and Hunter all re-enter time in Earth 1 and Earth 2 where they did last time, despite that the Barrys, Eobards and Hunters are not there to have created them, and the situations they were "created" to fix or meddle with (the tidal wave destroying central city, or Vandal savage killing Team Arrow and team Flash.) aren't present either.

What we're actually looking at (if they follow their own rules, which they won't.) is dozens of Zooms, several Flashes and a couple Reverse Flashes, despite that season one and two as we saw it did not happen, and these men are remnants from a collapsed timeline, who are suddenly free to do their own shit.

 

[Reverend]

The original real Zoom may never have found out about earth 1 because Barry never made the universe shredding time tornado at the end of season one, BUT... Every Time remnant made by Barry, Eobard and Hunter all re-enter time in Earth 1 and Earth 2 where they did last time, despite that the Barrys, Eobards and Hunters are not there to have created them, and the situations they were "created" to fix or meddle with (the tidal wave destroying central city, or Vandal savage killing Team Arrow and team Flash.) aren't present either.

What we're actually looking at (if they follow their own rules, which they won't.) is dozens of Zooms, several Flashes and a couple Reverse Flashes, despite that season one and two as we saw it did not happen, and these men are remnants from a collapsed timeline, who are suddenly free to do their own shit.

If that were the case, then season 1 Barry probably wouldn't have Marty McFlyed out of existence. That he did implies that something much more dramatic has happened than just folding back on his personal timeline. He's set off a massive paradox.

Recall that it's just not Season 1 and season 2 Barry who where there, but also child Barry and alternate pre-Thawne interference future Barry too (or did that turn out to be season 2 Barry too? I forget.) Either way, if this were Doctor Who the cloister bell would be having a panic attack about now.

 

[Christopher]

The time-travel absurdities don't bother me, because a show about someone who can move at blinding speeds, but who will always be challenged by plot necessity to face certain threats/dialogues in real time is totally absurd by definition.

Yeah... When Henry was dying, I couldn't help thinking, why doesn't Barry race him to a hospital rather than lamenting over his final breaths? (Realistically, the stress of the acceleration would kill him instantly, but that's never been an issue with anyone else the Flash has super-sped to safety, so presumably the Speed Force damps inertia.)

 

[theenglish]

Just finished the episode. I was underwhelmed by this season to be honest and wasn't really all that impressed with the finale.

It will be interesting to see how long the Flashpoint Paradox goes on next season and what kind of effects it has beyond the world of the Flash.Will the entire next season be part of the flashpoint universe or will it only be the initial arc leading into a different story? Will we see its effects on Arrow, for example, or will the big crossover event in December be the flashpoint characters?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I just finished the episode. I'll say it had the best finale of various DC shows (iZombie, Arrow, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow). Still felt a little anti-climatic with how they finished off Zoom.

I'm excited to see how they'll handle the Flashpoint Paradox story of season 3. Although I hope they don't move the show backwards with this move. I'd hate for season 3 to just be season 1 all over again, BUT "different"!

 

[Commander Richard]

I keep thinking of what they did with season 2 of Witchblade. It was basically a repeat of season 1 with a few changes.

 

[Gaith]

Yeah... When Henry was dying, I couldn't help thinking, why doesn't Barry race him to a hospital rather than lamenting over his final breaths? (Realistically, the stress of the acceleration would kill him instantly, but that's never been an issue with anyone else the Flash has super-sped to safety, so presumably the Speed Force damps inertia.)

And I couldn't help wondering why he didn't attack Zoom rather than plead with him, as he had no reason at all to think he wouldn't go through with killing Henry. Besides, didn't we all learn from the Miami Vice film that the best time to attack an enemy with a super-fast weapon is at the beginning of one of his sentences, when his mind is still focused on what he's saying? If Barry were a better Michael Mann student, Henry might still be alive.

 

[Christopher]

I just finished the episode. I'll say it had the best finale of various DC shows (iZombie, Arrow, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow).

What about Lucifer and Gotham? And there's Preacher, but it's just begun. DC and Vertigo are all over the dial lately. (Am I making myself sound really old by saying "dial"?)

Although I hope they don't move the show backwards with this move. I'd hate for season 3 to just be season 1 all over again, BUT "different"!

I keep thinking of what they did with season 2 of Witchblade. It was basically a repeat of season 1 with a few changes.

Which was something that show was free to do because it wasn't sharing a universe with two or three other shows. That isn't the case here. It's also something I wish Witchblade hadn't done, because it made no sense. It actually wasn't a repeat of season 1, which was the problem. Sure, the main character had to relearn a lot of stuff from scratch, but a lot of external key events from season 1 that should've happened again in the reset timeline -- like the various murders-of-the-week and the police-corruption arc involving the White Bulls -- never happened, and their non-happening was never explained.

I remain convinced that any timeline changes in The Flash will be short-lived, will not extend to the other shows, and will be undone (aside from maybe one or two minor changes) fairly quickly. I'm thinking a 2-part season opener doing a version of Flashpoint and then back to the standard timeline. After all, only a little of the Flashpoint story (The Flashpoint Paradox being the name of the animated adaptation) was specifically about the Flash. A lot of it was about more general DC Universe stuff -- Thomas Wayne being Batman, Atlantis and Themyscira waging war, etc. -- so if you strip that out, there's not really that much story material left. I can see it driving a 2-parter, but not a whole season.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think they'll likely get more play out of it...Barry has to get his powers back, Barry has to go back in time and try to fix it, maybe there's some trial and error where his actions have unforeseen consequences and/or there's something else involved for him to get the timeline "just right" again...all while he's interacting with (potentially multiple) alternate timeline versions of his supporting cast. They could really have a lot of fun with this. They shouldn't feel constrained to keep "in synch" with the other Arrowverse shows.

Theoretically, if Barry ultimately restores the "right" timeline after several episodes, then to the other characters in the Arrowverse, it would be as if nothing had happened...so their adventures could go on in that proper timeline while Barry mucks around in alternate ones. Ultimately, the only character who has to experience Flashpoint Paradox events as they happen is Barry.

 

[Christopher]

They shouldn't feel constrained to keep "in synch" with the other Arrowverse shows.

In theory, no, but I think a lot of viewers would be confused if they didn't. And it would take away the urgency of the "I must restore the universe to the correct timeline" plot if we can already see that the correct timeline is enduring on the other shows. Then it's not about fixing the universe and saving everybody else, it's just about Barry getting himself back his home timeline. The only way it could work is if The Flash's season debuted long enough before the other shows (or at least before Arrow) that the whole thing could play out before their premieres.