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Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

I can't believe Barry actually gave Zoom is powers. Maybe I can believe it because Barry has been an absolute moron since last season and his friends treat him like a dictator/cult leader that they can't disobey. He consistently makes decisions that threaten the well-being of his friends, the world and the universe.

Zoom inexplicably lets Wally go and they STILL give him Barry's powers WTF?

Iris and Caitlin's only contribution to the show last night was talking about their love lives and Caitlin has now become Fay Wray to Zoom's Kong.

Last night was the first time I found myself wondering why I still watch the show. To me, it hasn't been the same show I found so much fun the first 2/3s of Season 1. I think Barry's increasingly stupid decision-making is a big factor. I like my heroes flaw but Barry is just an absolute moron who refuses to learn anything.

Barry has Zoom incapacitated and instead of either killing him and securing him, he decides to give the superhero equivalent of an evil monologue and talk long enough for Zoom to regain his strength. Why? Because Barry could never resist spiking the football in the faces of all of the people he's defeated. That scene last night was literally three minutes of Barry swinging his dick in Jay's face. He's an inexcusable moron.
 
Poor Caitlin. First she loses her fiance. Then, she cautiously opens her heart to love Jay, only to be kidnapped by him and learn that he is a psycho villain.

I do like the themes of destiny, family and what makes a person good or evil. We see a lot of contrasts (Barry and Zoom, Cailtin and Killer Frost, Cisco and Reverb etc.). The show handles this really well.

I suspect that the group tricked Zoom into thinking that he had stolen all of Barry's speed force when in reality he has probably only siphoned off maybe 20-30%. All they would have to do is change the computer readout to say 100% when it was only say 30% and then have Barry pretend to lose his powers like he did by slowing down and stumbling off the tread mill. This would be convincing, especially since Zoom would get some real extra speed force so he might actually believe that he got it all. I doubt that Barry has really lost all of his speed force permanently. That would be monumentally stupid to give up your powers for real. So I suspect it is a big trap for Zoom.
 
The Old Mixer said:
Was "How long was I gone?" it, or did I miss something? I'd think they would have made a slightly bigger deal of it, if only having Barry mention that he'd been to another universe. (You'd think he'd want to make sure that doesn't happen accidentally again.)
Click to expand...
I got the impression that he was about to tell them, but for whatever reason, the memory of what just happened disappeared from his mind. Timey-wimey? Dunno.
sojourner said:
So, did the name "Jay Garrick" just get pulled out of hat by Zoom when he decided to play the heroic Flash on Earth-2? The man in the iron mask is still the wild card in all this. I hope the writers know who he is.
Click to expand...
It's Max Mercury. Zoom has already stolen his speed. Zoom told Barry that he'd never believe who it was, because on Earth One, Mercury's alternate identity, William Blythe, was the 42nd President, Bill Clinton. :biggrin:
Kestrel said:
I think it's
90s Flash
since we know he's coming back and Zolomon's whole "you'd never believe me" thing.
Click to expand...
Nope. Bill Clinton, and he'll be playing himself. :lol:

Actually, I like your theory a LOT, and it jives with
the fact that we already know that Oliver's DAD is the Green Arrow on Earth 2, and them giving Black Canary's *actual* alter ego name to Laurel's mom makes me think that Dinah Lance (maiden name Drake?) just might be Earth 2's Black Canary, also.
:techman:
 
DarthPipes said:
I can't believe Barry actually gave Zoom is powers. Maybe I can believe it because Barry has been an absolute moron since last season and his friends treat him like a dictator/cult leader that they can't disobey. He consistently makes decisions that threaten the well-being of his friends, the world and the universe.

Zoom inexplicably lets Wally go and they STILL give him Barry's powers WTF?

Iris and Caitlin's only contribution to the show last night was talking about their love lives and Caitlin has now become Fay Wray to Zoom's Kong.

Last night was the first time I found myself wondering why I still watch the show. To me, it hasn't been the same show I found so much fun the first 2/3s of Season 1. I think Barry's increasingly stupid decision-making is a big factor. I like my heroes flaw but Barry is just an absolute moron who refuses to learn anything.

Barry has Zoom incapacitated and instead of either killing him and securing him, he decides to give the superhero equivalent of an evil monologue and talk long enough for Zoom to regain his strength. Why? Because Barry could never resist spiking the football in the faces of all of the people he's defeated. That scene last night was literally three minutes of Barry swinging his dick in Jay's face. He's an inexcusable moron.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't usually get as frustrated or annoyed with these Berlanti shows as others on here do... but this episode definitely got on my nerves a bit. You had Barry browbeating Cisco into using his powers to open a breach, even though Barry had just traveled to another Earth all on his own without saying a word about it. And then after finally trapping the extremely dangerous Zoom he fails to secure him in any real way and spends a ridiculous amount of time gloating and sounding cocky as hell about it instead.

And then after Zoom escapes and captures Wally, Barry and the team apparently (at least judging by next week's trailer) completely fold that instant and give Zoom everything he wants, without coming up with any plan whatsoever to trick him or drug him or even trap him again, even though it doesn't actually look like it would have been that hard to do.

Say huh??
 
So that blip out/in while he was using the device was his trip to National City and Supergirl? Odd that there was no mention of it at all, if so.

I think the 'time remnant' solution for 'good' Jay Garrick is kind of a BS answer. Anybody could be anybody if that's possible - and that the remnant would willingly choose to be killed is straining credulity---even on this show.
 
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grendelsbayne said:
Also, if Jay #2 was earth 2 Hunter *from the past* as he claimed, then why didn't Zoom disappear as soon as his past self died? He wasn't time traveling like the Reverse Flash. He should have been done for just like season 1 Thawne.
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Yep, I don't get this.
I get that Thawne in the future survives because the time effects haven't caught up with him and he is still destined to travel back to Barry's time so he's part of those events still. But Zoom going back and kidnapping himself and killing himself sounds like some kind of messed up time travel, if that's the case then Barry saving his Mother wouldn't have made a difference to his own timeline.
 
Could it be that the entire episode was already filmed when they got the green light on the crossover and all they were able to do to reference it where a quick effect in post production and dubbing "I am back?" over a different line of dialog?
 
Timelord Victorious said:
Could it be that the entire episode was already filmed when they got the green light on the crossover and all they were able to do to reference it where a quick effect in post production and dubbing "I am back?" over a different line of dialog?
Click to expand...

Good question. Was Barry on camera when he said "How long was I gone?" Did we see his mouth move?
 
Hope it's a trap because Flash was finally quicker than Zoom n should of just beaten his ass. Also I don't like the whole Jay was pulled from his past because his death should of still affected him never mind pulling him out of his timeline. Also Zoom said "this complicates matters" when Jay was killed which seem to indicate it was not planned, why say that line otherwise. We still have the whole man in the mask.

I hope there is a good endgame otherwise Flash will have wasted all the promise from the earlier episodes.
 
Christopher said:
Was Barry on camera when he said "How long was I gone?" Did we see his mouth move?
Click to expand...

He was. We did.
But that scene might have easily been a reshoot since it's very short and happens on set.
But then they could have easily added another line actually referencing the crossover so who knows...
 
I know the producers often talk about how they have to cut stuff out to fit the runtime, but there's no sign of anything being edited there that I could see.

And something tells me we're not going to see the subject brought up in any future episodes either. Even though you'd think this would be kind of a momentous event for Barry and the gang.
 
Corran Horn said:
In response to people saying the character of Jay Garrick has been corrupted/ruined/etc....
Click to expand...

They didn't make Jay Garrick a baddie because there was never a Jay Garrick. He never existed. Its just an alter ego for Hunter Zoloman. So, just like how Harrison Wells was technically a new character, Jay Garrick was technically not turned into a bad guy, the bad guy just used the name.
 
dodge said:
^^
There's still the guy in the iron mask whose only word spoken(tapped) was "Jay".
He might be the real Jay.
Click to expand...

I really hope that's what happens. But, even if he is, was he ever The Flash? Does he even have speed powers? If Hunter Zoloman was always the Earth 2 "Flash", that's still a pretty stupid thing to do for the Earth 2 Flash.
 
The monkeys writing the script for the Flash, even with Greg at the top, were probably legally not allowed to know the intimate details of what was happening over in Supergirl land before it aired. And since both episodes were finished being made months before they aired, it's not like the writers could have watched Supergirl to find out and touch up their Flash script. Hell it's even possible that Supergirl s01e18 was filmed AFTER this episode of the Flash, and Grant hadn't gotten his script yet, so they couldn't even say "Grant, you've got 2 minutes to adlib and pull dialogue out of your bum about what you did over at CBS: ACTION!".

The Supergirl episode had to have been made while Flash was on Hiatus, unless Grant is some type of Superman who can make two episodes of TV a week ...Have they wrapped up shooting for the year ion Flash?
 
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