Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I really hope Patty doesn't become the new Iris and she is told that Barry is the Flash soon. I want to like Patty, but her character seems to have hit a wall in the last few episodes. Speaking of Iris, the writers really are doing a great job with her this season.

I'm tired of the "tell me everything, I command you!" attitude coming from Patty, as I was with Iris last season. For Iris, it at least made sense as she and Barry were essentially family. But Patty is a stranger, they've only played the workplace flirtation game for a scant few weeks, and have been out of a date a grand total of one time. She doesn't need to be all up in his business and he doesn't have to tell her a secret of this magnitude yet. She started out well, but the writers don't need to make her so clingy. Stop it!

For a second there I thought Barry was gonna tell her, and then he didn't.

Joe, though should take her more serious and maybe at least think about getting her on Team Flash.
She may actually need to prove herself in his eyes further.

 

[Christopher]

By the way, it sounds like they brought back Clancy Brown to do Grodd's voice, even though the first time they just had Brown as Eiling with Grodd speaking through him and had someone else (David Sobolov) provide Grodd's mind-voice. But Brown did a much better job playing Grodd, so it's no wonder they traded up. I didn't actually see his name in the credits, but his voice is pretty unmistakeable. (Brown has also played Grodd in Robot Chicken, interestingly enough.)

 

[FPAlpha]

I really hope Patty doesn't become the new Iris and she is told that Barry is the Flash soon. I want to like Patty, but her character seems to have hit a wall in the last few episodes. Speaking of Iris, the writers really are doing a great job with her this season.

I'm tired of the "tell me everything, I command you!" attitude coming from Patty, as I was with Iris last season. For Iris, it at least made sense as she and Barry were essentially family. But Patty is a stranger, they've only played the workplace flirtation game for a scant few weeks, and have been out on a date a grand total of one time. She doesn't need to be all up in his business and he doesn't have to tell her a secret of this magnitude yet. She started out well, but the writers don't need to make her so clingy. Stop it!

I don't see her as clingy at all. At the start of every relationship you want to get to know the other person as much as you can and she didn't sit him down to extract information.

Barry has lied to her and she found out.. he covered it well in this episode but sooner or later he has to come forward about who he really is or it will be just Iris 2.0 and that's boring.

She's a cop, a very good one and she can take care of herself (moreso than Iris i might add) so there should not be a reason to keep it a secret for much longer other than needless drama.

The episode was half good, half meh. I love John Shipp wherever i see him and he plays a wonderful dad for Barry, it's always a highlight of an episode when he appears. Grodd looked very good for a TV budget.

However the rest did not quite come together for me.. Wells is under pressure to leave and attempt to defeat Zoom and save his daughter yet one line and he abandons his main mission to help out the team.. very weak writing. I also don't know what to make of the new Hawkgirl.. the way they "hint" at her is quite cool but something puts me off the actress.

So a mixed bag episode for me (which is still better than a good episode for some other shows currently).

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Earth-2 is turning out to be one wacky place.

 

[Commander Richard]

By the way, it sounds like they brought back Clancy Brown to do Grodd's voice, even though the first time they just had Brown as Eiling with Grodd speaking through him and had someone else (David Sobolov) provide Grodd's mind-voice. But Brown did a much better job playing Grodd, so it's no wonder they traded up. I didn't actually see his name in the credits, but his voice is pretty unmistakeable. (Brown has also played Grodd in Robot Chicken, interestingly enough.)

Brown did do a pretty good Grodd voice, I agree, and I thought it might be him reprising the role but the IMDb lists David Sobolov again.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I also recognized Clancy Brown's voice right away.

Yeah Earth 2 does seem to be kind of a hodge-podge of any ideas they can't fit on to Earth 1.

I think it makes sense that is no great mystery behind where Henry Allen has been and why he left. He was framed for his wife's murder and spent 15 years in prison. He is simply enjoying his freedom. I understand why the writers don't want him in every episode. But I hope at a certain point he finds peace and returns to Central City. Just writing him into episodes when it seems right. I hope he not always just randomly returning to town.

Fanboy wish is for him and Tina Mcgee to end up together. I think she is totally deserving to be let into Barry's secret. Along with what really has been going on with the various Dr Wells. Her every appearance has been tied to his character and she has no idea what is happening. It would be nice to see some movement on that. It would give her character more to do.

I like Patty as a character. But I fear the show is following into a pattern of Barry hiding his secret from his current girlfriend. Iris, Linda, and now Patty. I don't think every one he dates needs to know. But given she is a regular its bound to happen.

These producers are lazy with the secret identities on all their shows. They keep them out of tradition but do not seem that interested in exploring them or maintaining them. So the result is the the characters are very lazy in making any effort to really conceal them.

The list of examples is endless. As others have noted. The way people are aware of those who work at STAR Labs who work with the Flash and also are close to Barry Allen. But never question that.

Similar situation with Felicity working for Oliver Queen and the (Green) Arrow. It made Lance look like an idiot. Its great that he fully knows now. But it is as if they were not fully committed to how to answer the question before. Did Lance know and not use that knowledge? They dragged it on longer than necessary.

I thought it was almost perfunctory how Felicity hide Diggle's identity from Curtis Holt. It almost inevitable he will join the team and learn the secrets.

 

[JD]

It's ridiculous to argue about this but then again we're fans of it.

At which point does an animal stop being an animal and start being a person? Grodd is clearly self aware, has shown intelligence and is able to communicate (albeit telepathically).

Is he still an animal, is he a person or something in between? At which point would the law system step in and treat him as a person instead of an animal?

I don't think it's so ridiculous at all.
http://www.nonhumanrightsproject.org/category/courtfilings/

If people can make legitimate arguments for giving unaltered animals like Chimps the same rights as people, then clearly a enhance Gorilla deserves them.

An animal never stops being an animal and starts being a person.

Never.

Just because something isn't human, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve rights. A lot of animals feel the same pain, and have the same emotions as people. Just saying something is an animal isn't a real argument against giving them rights. I'm not necessarily saying them deserve all the rights of humans, but they do at least deserve some protections from unnecessary pain and suffering.

As for the show, I enjoyed this one. It wasn't amazing, but there was still a lot to like.
Grodd's return was cool. I was glad they gave him a possible happy ending. I wouldn't be against him returning, but if this is the end of his story, then I'm content.
It was great to see Barry's dad again.
I liked the set up we got for Kendra becoming Hawkgirl.
We got some nice stuff for Wells to.

 

[Christopher]

I always find it so silly when people say humans aren't animals. What are we, then? Vegetables? Minerals? Abstract concepts?

 

[Myko]

https://twitter.com/volobos/status/666766253634154496

David Sobolov confirms he played Grodd in last night's episode.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I always find it so silly when people say humans aren't animals. What are we, then? Vegetables? Minerals? Abstract concepts?

Agreed. Its obvious what is to blame for that - Religious beliefs.
I remember being in Sunday School as a little kid and being shown these ridiculous illustrations of the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve where white and clean cut and surrounded by wild animals. Maybe its hindsight but I think even that as a kid part of me knew that was all wrong.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I just realized something.
Did the Reverse Flash ring just become a bootstrap paradox?
Assuming Flah is the first speedster having a flash ring, but him getting it from Reverse Flash from the future?
Who invented the thing?
Thawne or did he just base his on the "original" Flash's?
Was it the original timeline Flash? But that timeline got erased, so there is no origin for the ring anymore now...

headache!

 

[FPAlpha]

I just realized something.
Did the Reverse Flash ring just become a bootstrap paradox?
Assuming Flah is the first speedster having a flash ring, but him getting it from Reverse Flash from the future?
Who invented the thing?
Thawne or did he just base his on the "original" Flash's?
Was it the original timeline Flash? But that timeline got erased, so there is no origin for the ring anymore now...

headache!

You never start thinking about these things when it involves time travel and/or other dimensions. The writers sure don't.

 

[EnderAKH]

By the way, it sounds like they brought back Clancy Brown to do Grodd's voice, even though the first time they just had Brown as Eiling with Grodd speaking through him and had someone else (David Sobolov) provide Grodd's mind-voice. But Brown did a much better job playing Grodd, so it's no wonder they traded up. I didn't actually see his name in the credits, but his voice is pretty unmistakeable. (Brown has also played Grodd in Robot Chicken, interestingly enough.)

As well as Shape Ape in the Thrilling Adventure Hour's Captain Laserbeam.

 

[Christopher]

https://twitter.com/volobos/status/666766253634154496

David Sobolov confirms he played Grodd in last night's episode.

That's surprising. I could've sworn it was Brown. Maybe Sobolov was trying to emulate the terrific job Brown did as the Grodd-possessed Eiling.

Agreed. Its obvious what is to blame for that - Religious beliefs.
I remember being in Sunday School as a little kid and being shown these ridiculous illustrations of the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve where white and clean cut and surrounded by wild animals. Maybe its hindsight but I think even that as a kid part of me knew that was all wrong.

I'd call that an effect rather than a cause. Religious teachings and myths reflect their developers' values and priorities. It's a longstanding human conceit to see ourselves as higher than other animals because of our language and civilization and whatnot. No, I just find it amusing when people talk as though we aren't animals at all, as if we were some kind of plant life or rocks or something.

 

[matthunter]

I just realized something.
Did the Reverse Flash ring just become a bootstrap paradox?
Assuming Flah is the first speedster having a flash ring, but him getting it from Reverse Flash from the future?
Who invented the thing?
Thawne or did he just base his on the "original" Flash's?
Was it the original timeline Flash? But that timeline got erased, so there is no origin for the ring anymore now...

headache!

Not only that, but why the hell do they still have it? - Thawne was WEARING the suit when he got erased!

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I think Cisco mentioned finding a spare in the time vault.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Grodd isn't an animal, he's an emotionally scarred psychic genius with the emotional maturity of a five year old. I don't think Gorilla City with thank Earth One for landing him with them. Odds are they'll institutionalise him.

Indeed, Grodd's reaction to the city seemed to be an attitude of aggression...and scheming to take over Gorilla City was his traditional pastime in the comics. We shouldn't see this as happily ever after for Grodd.

 

[Servo]

I doubt this is the last Earth 1 has seen of Grodd. He'll probably mind control a bunch of gorillas from Earth 2 and somehow find a way back. It's certainly possible with his intellect and the tech available on Earth 2. That could even be how Gorilla City gets started on Earth 1.

 

[theenglish]

I just realized something.
Did the Reverse Flash ring just become a bootstrap paradox?
Assuming Flah is the first speedster having a flash ring, but him getting it from Reverse Flash from the future?
Who invented the thing?
Thawne or did he just base his on the "original" Flash's?
Was it the original timeline Flash? But that timeline got erased, so there is no origin for the ring anymore now...

headache!

You never start thinking about these things when it involves time travel and/or other dimensions. The writers sure don't.

Why does the ring and the reverse flash suit survive and not Gideon?

 

[matthunter]

I just realized something.
Did the Reverse Flash ring just become a bootstrap paradox?
Assuming Flah is the first speedster having a flash ring, but him getting it from Reverse Flash from the future?
Who invented the thing?
Thawne or did he just base his on the "original" Flash's?
Was it the original timeline Flash? But that timeline got erased, so there is no origin for the ring anymore now...

headache!

You never start thinking about these things when it involves time travel and/or other dimensions. The writers sure don't.

Why does the ring and the reverse flash suit survive and not Gideon?

Well, I suppose Gideon could be programmed to auto-destruct if Thawne went bye-bye... Thawne may not have planned for the ring to survive his death anyway if the one Cisco has is NOT a spare. If it IS... I dunno? The suit itself is nothing special, since it's the same as Barry's. But the tech in the ring? Unless it only works for speedsters, leaving that lying around is gonna mess up the timeline.

Of course, Thawne has already taken the timeline out back and had repeated intercourse with it without lube, so likely he just didn't care. Leaving Gideon about as a source of info that could be used against him, however?