Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

[JD]

This was an OK finale. I did like how they dealt with Barry losing his dad, and the others trying to keep him from getting himself killed.
The stuff with Zoom felt like a nice big finale level threat. I was about comment how there was no real set up for it, but there was, we got Zoom's reference to conquering other Earths and him stealing the machine. I really liked all of the Zoom/Flash fight scenes.

I loved Barry's response to Zoom's line about his fan club, that was a great hero line.
The time remnant thing didn't bother me to much, we'd already seen it a couple times so it wasn't like it came out of nowhere. It would have been nice if they didn't gloss over the fact that another Barry sacrificed himself, but there was already a lot going on in the limited time the episode had, so I can see wanting to focus on other things.
Since it's been one of the most popular theories going around I wasn't to surprised to see John Wesley Shipp as the real Jay Garrick, but it was still a cool moment. I was disappointed we got so little of him, so I'm hopping he comes back next season. I doubt they would have spent the time and money to design such a fancy superhero costume for Jay if that was all the screen time he was going to get.
Harry and Jessie going home was a surprise, I had been expecting them to stick around for a lot longer.
The end was a big surprise, but I can see why he would do that after losing his father too. I am very curious to see what is going to happen with the show now, since technically saving his mother's life should mean that nothing in Barry's will play out the same way.

Do they use two different costumes when Barry has the mask pulled back and when he has it up over his face? I noticed there almost always seems to be an edit between Barry starting to pull the mask up over his head and him pulling it down over his eyes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That was an ok finale, but I can't help but think they pushed the major reset button on the season. I was expecting something big to happen, but all the reveals were pretty much predicted in this thread so it didn't feel like a big finale. This may sound dumb, but I was hoping something unexpected would have happened, like Supergirl showing up somehow. Yeah, it probably doesn't make sense, but it would be mind blowing and better than hitting the reset button on the series. It wasn't a terrible finale, mainly because the scene around the magnatar was awesome (I love when two speedsters race, that effect is really impressive) but I was expecting something more.

I think it's more of a plot set up that a reset button. More "It's A Wonderful Life" than Star Trek.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I thought it was a strong finale, but maybe I'm in the minority.

I didn't care for the concept of time remnants, especially when one Zoom killed the other at the beginning. I still don't to some extent. I thought if a speedster could create time remnants, could someone like Thawne or Zolomon really be killed or defeated? I mean, what's to stop Zolomon from creating more replicas of himself? But toward the end, they used it as a plot device for Barry to succeed in defeating Zoom.

As for the real Jay Garrick's reveal, the speculations were correct. The man in the mask didn't have Teddy Sears' build, so it had to have been J. W. Shipp/Henry's doppelganger somehow. Though I have to admit, for a moment I thought the real Jay in the mask was the Sears version.

I liked how everyone pulled together. What is the Flash without his team - friends and family - to support him? I was glad Wells and Jessie got to return home, as did the newly freed Garrick.

But after all that's happened, Barry still managed to break his own cardinal rule of not messing with timeline. The whole new world that will emerge from the altered history will be the main focus for next season. Can't wait to see who the next villain is.

 

[sojourner]

I do like that they didn't go with a saturated palette for the real Garrick costume. Nice bright reds and blues. Though the cut of the jacket does show off Jay's paunch a bit. Guess Hunter only fed him Big Belly Burger while he was trapped in that cell.

Hate to admit though, the Helmet looked better on Hunter.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Frickin, frackin, god damned DVR didn't record this, had to use other means.

I do like that they didn't go with a saturated palette for the real Garrick costume. Nice bright reds and blues. Though the cut of the jacket does show off Jay's paunch a bit. Guess Hunter only fed him Big Belly Burger while he was trapped in that cell.

Hate to admit though, the Helmet looked better on Hunter.

Teddy Sears has a great build/look for the Flash, he looks great as the "Jay Garrick Flash" and he cuts a nice figure as Zoom.

 

[Dick Whitman]

http://bit.ly/1YX4e8B In new Vareity interview Shipp mentions Jay's connection to the JSA and it's recent introduction to Legends. Now it seems his own conjecture and not from the producers. But it would be odd if the shows do not explore that connection with both ideas being introduced at the same time.

 

[CorporalClegg]

So does this mean they're going to do TFPP next season? If so, how will it effect the other shows?

I'm way behind on Arrow because Wednesdays have been busy for me. (At this point i'm just going to wail until they add this season to Neflix.) And I just couldn't get into LoT.

Interesting side effect though, Flashpoint could open the door to full merge Kara into the CWverse--assuming they intend to go that route.

 

[Mr Light]

I would be shocked, shocked, shocked if Flash actually changed the Arrowverse-Earth that Arrow and Legends takes place in. Are they really going to alter the realities of two other shows based on something that has nothing to do with them?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Or they could conveniently ignore The Flash while Barry's off playing in an alternate timeline. But LoT being a time travel show, they may tie it in.

More "It's A Wonderful Life" than Star Trek.

Now you've set my expectations for a mid-season finale that has Barry running through the streets of Central City after restoring the timeline--"Merry Christmas, CC Jitters! Merry Christmas, CCPD! Merry Christmas, you wonderful ol' STAR Labs!"

 

[Taylirious]

I feel every time Barry takes one step forward he zooms back 10! Ha! I was good until the end and I don't know much about the comics but I trust things will play out in a meaningful and compelling way given how great the show has been so far.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I haven't read the Flashpoint comics myself, but there's an animated version of it on Netflix that I watched.

 

[Christopher]

It should be on the CW website tomorrow as well

Yup, that's where I just watched it. I realized that if I tried On Demand, I'd have to rewatch the first half, since I can't fast-forward there.

• 90s Flash may or may not remain an easter egg but at least we have something more solid to suggest that there's an Earth with his Flash on it.

I think it will be just an Easter egg. I doubt they'll ever explicitly incorporate it, either because of legal issues or because it doesn't fit into their plans, so they just put in hints and let the viewers draw the connections. We now know that the real Jay Garrick is a doppelganger of Henry Allen, so we know there can be speedster doppelgangers of Henry who have different names, so maybe the '90 Flash is another such doppelganger. We'll probably never see it stated outright, but we've been given enough hints to believe it's true.

It's a shame, though, that the Flash producers didn't incorporate any overt references to the Supergirl crossover into their stories. It would've raised the stakes of Zoom's plan to destroy the multiverse if it could be acknowledged that it would put Supergirl's world in danger too.

Well, I guess we still needed a reason for future Flash to shake his head (telling younger Flash not to save his mother). Obviously, future Flash knew something about the consequences of saving his mother, and I assume next season will involve Flash learning those reasons and then going back in time to stop himself and shake his head at younger Flash.

I doubt they'll do a whole season in an altered timeline -- probably just open with an episode or two doing a version of Flashpoint and then restoring the original timeline. At most, they'll have the original timeline restored in time for the big 4-series crossover in December.

The finale like season 2 as a whole feel short of season 1, there was just too much that didn't hold up to scrutiny like the whole time remnant thing that for me is a cheap cop out and is one of those things that gets used and then your like well why not always use it, the same with the time travel. Barry can just time travel when he likes which will have the whole Hiro effect like on Heroes and starts cool and then just becomes a issue for the writers cause you can't come up with a good idea why he wouldn't always use it.

But we were shown right here why he couldn't "just time travel when he likes" -- because speedster time travel attracts retribution from Time Wraiths. (Although one wonders why Barry thinks that the Wraiths would let him get away with saving his mother, after consciously relying on the Wraiths' distaste for speedster time hijinks in order to deal with Zoom.)

Also I don't get the team's plan at the start? They wanted to send Zoom back to Earth 2 but he can just come back? the guy creates portals at ease right?

The plan was to stop him from using the "magnetar" device to destroy the multiverse. Sending him back to Earth-2 would've taken him out of play long enough for Wells to dismantle the magnetar -- or so they thought. As it turned out, dismantling the magnetar would've had a disastrous effect, so they were forced to leave it in place.

We went into the final two episodes with a) Zoom leading an entire army of metas and b) the promise of Wally and Jesse getting powers. But both of those things were taken away within the first five minutes of the next episode. It was quickly just Zoom and Black Canary... and then in this episode it was just Zoom. And the kids never got their powers.

Well, it's a given that they could never afford to show a whole army of metahumans for more than a couple of minutes of screen time, so we couldn't have expected anything else. As for Wally and Jesse, that's no doubt playing the long game, setting something up that could pay off next season. The show's been doing that sort of thing from the start -- literally, with the opening scene of young Barry seeing his mother attacked by a superfast blur.

I'm still not really following the "time remnant" bit. Did Barry have a conversation with his other self before he offed himself? Did that other Barry have a mind, a soul?

Of course he did. It wasn't a different being -- it was just Barry at two different points in his personal timeline. He traveled back in time a matter of seconds so that he coexisted with his earlier self, and that let one of the two overlapping versions (let's say the later one, because it's less of a paradox) sacrifice himself while the other lived. They didn't have to have a conversation, because they were the same person with mere seconds of difference between them, and thus they/he had the same plan in their/his mind.

Since it's been one of the most popular theories going around I wasn't to surprised to see John Wesley Shipp as the real Jay Garrick, but it was still a cool moment. I was disappointed we got so little of him, so I'm hopping he comes back next season. I doubt they would have spent the time and money to design such a fancy superhero costume for Jay if that was all the screen time he was going to get.

Although there was at least one shot of Jay in costume where it seemed obvious to me that Shipp would have to do some serious working out to get back in shape to play a superhero.

Harry and Jessie going home was a surprise, I had been expecting them to stick around for a lot longer.

When Jesse said "We can't text between universes," I thought, "Why not? You've found ways to travel between universes, and you're science geniuses. Invent something!"

Do they use two different costumes when Barry has the mask pulled back and when he has it up over his face? I noticed there almost always seems to be an edit between Barry starting to pull the mask up over his head and him pulling it down over his eyes.

I've been noticing that trope in superhero shows for decades. There's always a cutaway when the mask/cowl comes off or goes on. Sometimes, yes, it is because there are two different costumes (this is often painfully obvious in Daredevil season 2), but it would be necessary anyway even with just a single costume, because pulling off the mask would probably smear the actor's makeup -- or else the actor's upper face wouldn't be made up at all in the masked shots, and would then have to have makeup applied for the mask-off shots.

I would be shocked, shocked, shocked if Flash actually changed the Arrowverse-Earth that Arrow and Legends takes place in. Are they really going to alter the realities of two other shows based on something that has nothing to do with them?

Of course not. As long as this show is part of a shared universe with other shows, it can't permanently alter that universe in any major way. Any Flashpoint adaptation they do will surely be short-term and impermanent.

 

[Photoman15]

Y




But we were shown right here why he couldn't "just time travel when he likes" -- because speedster time travel attracts retribution from Time Wraiths. (Although one wonders why Barry thinks that the Wraiths would let him get away with saving his mother, after consciously relying on the Wraiths' distaste for speedster time hijinks in order to deal with Zoom.)

Maybe because it was a time-traveling Zoom that originally went back and killed Barry's mother. Barry is just fixing Zoom's time incursion.

 

[dahj]

I wonder how long will the Flashpoint event take and will it affect other shows.

They could do the what the Flashpoint comic story did, with huge catastrophic changes that are immediately apparent and then resolve it over the course of the first few episodes, or they could go a different route, and make it small changes that culminate over the course of a season into something big.

Either way can't wait for Citizen Cold!

 

[Christopher]

You know, here's a thought... Maybe Barry could bring Nora with him to the future. Then history would only be slightly changed -- Nora would've just disappeared instead of being found dead. With enough evidence of foul play, Henry could still have been arrested for the murder and events would play out much the same.

If he really wanted to preserve history, he could create a time remnant of himself and Nora, then kill the remnant of Nora and take the other Nora to the future with him, so that the physical evidence would be unchanged in the past but Nora would still be alive in the present. Or maybe the remnant Flash would kill the remnant Nora and then kill himself so he wouldn't have to live with the pain. But that would be a pretty darn grisly thing to do, and I doubt the show would go that dark.

 

[kirk55555]

The finale was fine, until the end. I'm beyond sick and tired of barry messing up the universe because he keeps changing time. I'm also completely done with Barry losing his powers every three episodes out of pure stupidity. He loses his powers more than Oliver quits being Green Arrow at this point, which is very bad. Unless the new timeline is gotten rid of immediately next season, its going to be a rough one. I'll still watch (because even with this finale its still the greatest live action superhero show ever), but I've never been this unenthusiastic for a new season of The Flash.

 

[Tosk]

Do they use two different costumes when Barry has the mask pulled back and when he has it up over his face? I noticed there almost always seems to be an edit between Barry starting to pull the mask up over his head and him pulling it down over his eyes.

Two different cowls, definitely. There is always a cut. Mostly well done, once in a while the "start to put it on/take it off" motion is a little more obvious. If you look around you'll see pics of what the "loose" cowl looks like. It's pretty good, but has a very 'cheap Halloween costume' kind of look to it. (As it doesn't conform to the face.) At least season 2 they added the chin piece so it looks a little more convincing than the season 1 version.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did Barry beat Thawne to death when he rescued his mum?

No Thawne, no accelerator.

(So, Harry had one, shhhh! He also had a time vault, and we don't know why.)

There's another Barry Allen in the new timeline, the kid who didn't see his mommy die, who is not going to vanish 20 years later when this Barry arrives in what he considers the present to trick a new Iris into falling for him rather than the Barry Allen she's been falling in love with for the past 2 decades... Unless the indigenous Barry Allen is already dead? If he was struck by lightning but not hit by a dark matter wave, Nu Barry'll be dead or comatose, creating space for "our" Barry to take over.

Small problem.

Rescuing Nora is Barry Allen's Supervillain origin.

From this point on, the Flash is a baddie.

 

[Commander Richard]

^ Last night I was wondering if he'd be his own villain in some way.

 

[Snaploud]

Rescuing Nora is Barry Allen's Supervillain origin.

From this point on, the Flash is a baddie.

I like it. Our Barry can fight his evil doppleganger with the help of superhero Captain Cold.