The Fired thread

[The Borgified Corpse]

For 3 1/2 years, I worked as a buyer/cashier/customer service representative at a local used bookstore. It was my first real job. Five months ago, I was fired. I've never been fired before. I'm still trying to figure out how to explain my termination to new prospective employers.

I wasn't laid off. (I don't think they were in any hurry to replace me but I think they planned on replacing me eventually.) It had more to do with a combination of other factors. For one, corporate had been making a lot of very nonsensical decisions lately regarding remodeling the store and retooling their business model. I was not happy with many of these decsions and was not very discrete about my displeasure.

Also, there had been many changes in the store's management. The old assistant manager who hired me--a kindred libertarian, Trekkie, & Doctor Who fan--was fired for seemingly no reason. Two other very skilled managers were demoted, one of whom has yet to be replaced after 2 years. And while many of my co-workers & other managers miss me, respect me, and don't understand why I was fired, the only 2 managers who actually had any control over my fate were the 2 that I got along with the least well (partly because they're the only 2 non-SF/F geeks in that entire store).

I'm not sure what to do. Who else here has been fired? What did you do?

 

[Smiley]

You're in an at-will employment state, so the employer no longer had the will to keep you employed. Just make it clear to potential employers that the firing had nothing to do with your on-the-job performance. No matter what, be honest with them. They might even be impressed by your willingness to think for yourself and point out illogical policies at work.

 

[RoJoHen]

I have never once been asked in a job interview why I left my previous job. Granted, I've never been fired, but I'm just saying the question never even came up, and I've been through quite a few interviews (and always got hired).

 

[Jan]

I've been fired a couple of times, one of which I deserved because I did a poor job. I would suggest two things:

- Find out what kind of reference they'll give you, probably by having a friend call them as a prospective employer checking your references. Chances are all they'll do is verify dates and salary but there's one question that could tell you a lot. The question is "Is s/he eligible for re-hire?" If they feel that there was cause to fire you that answer will be "no" and it could make it harder for you to find another job even if they don't give out any further information.

- Second, Smiley's advice to be honest is good to a point. It's important to not bad-mouth your former company too much. Something along the lines of "There were changes in management that didn't fit my work style." would be about as harsh as you probably want to get.

Good luck looking. Don't let getting fired effect your sense of self-worth. It's just a detour in your path.

Jan

 

[tharpdevenport]

First real job? I assume you mean you've barely been employed at all. Like said, an "At Will" employment state -- you really don't need to explain, nor do you have to answer if asked about it.

The average number of jobs held from employable age to 36, according to a Google search, is 10.8. But I heard a higher number (I think something like 24) from Job Corps of America. Either way you slice it, if any employer gives you guff -- have handy a printed out copy from The Bureau of Labor Statistics:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/nlsoy.nr0.htm

And if they get smug about it, ask the interviewee had many jobs he or she held from 18 to 36...

 

[RoJoHen]

Especially since you worked at this bookstore for several years, your new potential boss might not even blink an eye at it. They will see that you managed to hold the same job a long time without incident. Eventually people leave or are fired from jobs. It happens. It looks good to see that you had longevity at your previous job, regardless of the circumstances that forced you to leave.

 

[Shatmandu]

Here are the golden words you're looking for, when asked why you're no longer at a previous job:

"It became an unprofessional work environment."

Everyone on this planet who has ever held a job will understand, even a fluffer who absolutely loves his job.

Joe, fluffee

 

[SeerSGB]

Here are the golden words you're looking for, when asked why you're no longer at a previous job:

"It became an unprofessional work environment."

Everyone on this planet who has ever held a job will understand, even a fluffer who absolutely loves his job.

Joe, fluffee

This one and: "There was a shift in the business model which eliminated my position [job title/classification]"

Also: Never dish on your past co-workers/bosses to the new guys. Seems like a natural thing to gossip, but you never know who knows who. Plus in a interview don't babble on how much you loved or hated the old job, makes you look unloyal and a drama queen.

Edit To Add: Check with your state labor board/commission and find out exactly what a former employer is and isn't allowed to say or confirm about your employment history. It might pay to call up the head office and talk to HR directly and get the company's policy as well. Seems an odd thing, but it's best to know what might be being said about you during reference checks and what they're limited to saying by law and company policy.

 

[od0_ital]

... Who else here has been fired? What did you do?

I have been fired a grand total of four times in fifteen years.

The first time, it was a small town, the owner of the business was a prominent member of the community, so when I was fired after just two weeks, I had to go and join the Army 'cause no one else in the small town would hire me.

I do not recommend this course of action.

The second time, I was told that I quit without notice after just three days of work and takin' the two days off that I was told I was scheduled to have off. Turns out, I was needed to fill an openin' in the schedule, but no one bothered to tell me that...so, I say I was fired, they said I quit.

I do not put them on my resume/applications.

The third time, I was at a job for four months, had just gotten my ninety day raise approved, and got caught up in a big ol' clusterfuck caused by a manager. He was fired outright, while I was suspended & they decided to fire me, too.

After unsuccessfully lookin' for a job in the area, since I had moved halfway across the country, I just moved back, and got hired right into the job I had left six months prior.

And, finally, the fourth time was a month ago. It was determined by upper management that I was "too aggressive" in wakin' a drunk non-guest up who was passed out on the hotel property. That I helped him to his feet and kept an eye on him while he walked to his actual hotel a block away didn't matter.

I went with bein' honest, to a point, while applyin' & interviewin' for jobs this past month. Told 'em the situation I had been faced with, how I resolved it, and that management deemed it to be excessive, and let me go because of it. I avoid tellin' 'em that they used this in connection to a write up back in April to fire me. It's just easier that way.

I start my new job in just under six hours.

In other words, gettin' fired ain't the end of the world, it can just feel like it sometimes. Just go out, and find a new job. Ya have experience in retail, the holiday season is just 'round the corner, and, if nothin' else, ya can get a temp job that could carry ya through to the new year.

Good luck!

 

[JustKate]

I like both Shatmandu's and the Sith's approaches here. I was thinking about something along the lines of, "I was fired/let go/whatever as part of a management reorganization."

You shouldn't ever lie, but folks expect you to make the truth sound as positive as possible.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Thanks for all the advice, guys. Keep it comin'!

Good luck looking. Don't let getting fired effect your sense of self-worth. It's just a detour in your path.

The self-worth thing is a problem, tied into the honesty thing.

Prior to my being fired, the store put me on indefinite probation. They claimed that there had been numerous customer complaints about me. However, they only ever cited one specific instance. It was a typical busy Saturday afternoon. I was the only one working customer service at the time. I was dealing with 3 phone calls at the same time while putting away a Super Nintendo for a 4th customer. A 5th customer asked me to help her get something out of the video game case. I politely told her to wait a moment while I finished what I was doing with the Super Nintendo that was already in my hands. This 5th customer seemed satisfied with my response. However, an unrelated observer thought that I had been rude to this 5th customer, so he took it upon himself to complain about me to the management.

While I believe none of the complaints against me had any merit, I can't help but feel some irrational guilt about them. I wanted to do a good job. If I was ever curt with a customer, it was only because I was frustrated at being unable to do as good a job as I wanted to.

And I miss working there. It wasn't just a job to me. It wasn't a career but it was a good place. It was the only place I've ever been IRL where being a SF/F geek was the rule, not some freakish exception.

First real job? I assume you mean you've barely been employed at all.

Pretty much. The bookstore job was full time. The other jobs I've had:

I was the House Manager at the Theatre at Mesa Community College. The title sounds impressive but they put on so few performances that I only ever averaged 16 hours per month at best.

I was a volunteer intern at Congressman Jeff Flake's Mesa district office for 3 months.

I worked for Arizona State University cold calling alumni and begging for donations. It was a part time job that I hated doing, wasn't any good at, and would have been fired from had I not graduated anyway.

 

[Joshua Howard]

I worked for Wal-Mart for a tad over a year. I was determined to rush my way into a management position, and - long story short - I became critical of management and just a tad sassy, and was fired. Technically, I was let go because of three distinct policy violations; but by the book, none of them were clear breaches of any company protocol. Simply put, I was fired based on manager discretion because some of my superiors found me irritating. That was May of last year. The following month, I was hired by Macy's.

That didn't last either, however, as I was laid off in the wake of downsizing one year later, May of this year. In the last few months I have been making bits of money off of odd things like selling furniture on craigslist, to complement my pre-existing salary, which I have been collecting all along from the Dept. of Social and Health Services in exchange for caring for a relative.

Right now I am casually attempting to get rehired at Wal-Mart, or Macy's, as I realistically need an extra income to quickly pay off credit card debt which has built up over the last two years, because I need some kind of job that offers at least the possibility of a career, and because there isn't anything like sitting around in the house for months to make a person realize the value and reward of actual labor.

My fiscal position is reasonably secure at this point, and I am 21. Nevertheless, money is something that most of us - regardless of personal situation - have had to form a more serious perspective toward in the last year or so.

My advice to you is to simply avoid letting worry or anxiety drop the entire mountainfull of stone on your shoulders all at once. Normal and fairly intelligent people have a natural safety system which tells the brain that things are worse than they really are. It provides necessary incentive, but it can also make you forget that - aside from a few minor setbacks - your overall situation is in pretty good shape.

Good luck.

 

[Jetfire]

I haven't been fired but I been forced out...where they make you wanna quit...and I usually do.

 

[SeerSGB]

I haven't been fired but I been forced out...where they make you wanna quit...and I usually do.

Been there done that. Usually it ended in a massive argument, as I wouldn't take the bullshit from the GM and the Supervisor that was punking with me.

When I was in Highschool I got a summer job at K-mart. I did a week's worth of shifts before the manager called me in the office.

She asked me who I was and why I was in uniform (we hadn't met at this point). I told her, told who hired me (The AM), etc, etc. She gets pissed and tells me that she had told the AM NOT to hire anyone while she (the GM) was on vacation. She then goes on a long tirade about the AM being a worthless (in her words) cunt that's out to get her job. I get told I had two options: Work 1 hour a week, or just quit cause she didn't want to see my face. I tossed her my smock and box cutter on the desk and say "Maybe some other time" and walked out the door.

 

[Starbreaker]

I was fired or "asked to resign" not to long ago from a job. Thankfully, my boss got fired the following month. She had the IQ of a tarantula I think.

 

[Squiggy]

The average number of jobs held from employable age to 36, according to a Google search, is 10.8. But I heard a higher number (I think something like 24) from Job Corps of America.

That's the dumbest statistic I've ever heard. That means that the "average" person has 1.5 different jobs a YEAR from 18 to 36.

 

[Joshua Howard]

^ The average American moves at least once very 5 years as well. I don't see anything particularly dumb about it. It doesn't mean that there aren't many exceptions to the rule, but... for every one person that stays put, there is a large number of others who don't. In any case, when you combine firing and layoffs with employees who quit by choice for a better job or because of a move, there are many reasons why a person might work for a new employer every year.

So far, I'm right in line with that statistic... though that is only counting 2-3 years of actual work experience. Granted however, I certainly do not intend to go through another 10 jobs by 2020.

 

[Tim]

Here are the golden words you're looking for, when asked why you're no longer at a previous job:

"It became an unprofessional work environment."

Everyone on this planet who has ever held a job will understand, even a fluffer who absolutely loves his job.

Joe, fluffee

Yup. Plus, the OP held his job for 3.5 years and got fired in the midst of a major recession. I doubt most employers will be too inquisitive.

 

[tharpdevenport]

The average number of jobs held from employable age to 36, according to a Google search, is 10.8. But I heard a higher number (I think something like 24) from Job Corps of America.

That's the dumbest statistic I've ever heard. That means that the "average" person has 1.5 different jobs a YEAR from 18 to 36.

Well, you would be wrong.

 

[Squiggy]

Employable age is 18. That means in the next 18 years until the age of 36 that "average" person would hold 24 jobs.

24 jobs/ 18 years = 1.3333, or one job every 9 months.