The *Final* DS9 Morality Survey (Spoilers!)

[DS9 Fan 2]

As promised, I’ve made one last survey! Everything works the same, but if you’ve never seen these threads before, I’ve been posting a few surveys in the past 3 weeks, asking questions about the various controversial moments in the series. Sometimes I also ask questions about individual characters, or general questions about the series as a whole, all dealing with the ethics of DS9.

The other thing that still hasn’t changed from before is that if you are new to DS9, these contain revealing details about various episodes throughout the entire series, so a SPOILER warning was attached. That way those of you who might be visiting after seeing DS9 on Spike TV or the DVDs will know this is probably not something you will want to participate in until you see the series all the way through.

If you haven’t taken the previous surveys and you’re interested you can visit these threads:

DS9 Morality Survey #1

DS9 Morality Survey #2

Now, let's get started!

 

[tomalak301]

Another great survay DS9 Fan 2

This was a lot easier than the last one, which had more undecideds than this or the first.

 

[eastman23]

Another great survey! A few points:

Bashir's genetic enhancement - I'm still undecided on this issue. I'm all for it if it can cure disabilities like Down's Syndrome and the like, but there's still that point about "For every Julian Bashir, there's a Khan Singh in the shadows." In hindsight, the enhancements saved lives through Julian's medical care, but hindsight is always 20/20.

Rom conspires to assassinate Quark - I chose that it's the Ferengi culture and it doesn't automatically make that inferior. The sooner we stop judging cultures to our own, the better.

Section 31 - Necessary to protect the Federation. I may not agree with their actions, but I still think that they are necessary. The world/universe is not as kind as we hope and wish it would be, and that's what Section 31 is for.

 

[Daedalus12]

This is an even better poll!

Kasidy, Kasidy why did you sympathize with a bunch of rag-tag, disorganized outlaws called the maquis. My opinion of Maquis is pretty low because they are a rebellious group without any real cause.

I think Kira was justified in her action of killing civilians. In any war there are always going to be civilian casualties. The longer the war drags on the more civilian casualties there will be so any action that could end the war quicker is the right action even if it means the sacrifice of a selected group of innocents.

Bashir is just lucky that he didn't turn out like any of the nutty individuals in the "Jack Pack." Genetically altering your child is a dangerous procedure so it should not be done under ordinary circumstances.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

Posted by Daedalus12:
Kasidy, Kasidy why did you sympathize with a bunch of rag-tag, disorganized outlaws called the maquis. My opinion of Maquis is pretty low because they are a rebellious group without any real cause.

Didn't you notice how their planets where stolen from them by a treaty? Most of them are fighting for their homes.

 

[Computer Voice]

Good survey once again!

Posted by Steven:
Bashir's genetic enhancement - I'm still undecided on this issue. I'm all for it if it can cure disabilities like Down's Syndrome and the like, but there's still that point about "For every Julian Bashir, there's a Khan Singh in the shadows." In hindsight, the enhancements saved lives through Julian's medical care, but hindsight is always 20/20.

I agree. Also, Bashir argued that he didn't have enough time to develop before the enhancements took place. Who knows what he would have become? Maybe he was a slow child, but he might have caught up, or had an as-then unnoticed gift, which was wiped out by the genetic fiddling.

 

[Kukalaka]

This one was a lot easier, though I did have a few gray areas, like Julian's enhancements... and Garak. I mean, Garak may be a little screwed up from his time in the Obsidian Order, and he may be slightly amoral, but he did get a few things right about the world.

Ku

 

[Daedalus12]

Posted by TheMacMan:

Posted by Daedalus12:
Kasidy, Kasidy why did you sympathize with a bunch of rag-tag, disorganized outlaws called the maquis. My opinion of Maquis is pretty low because they are a rebellious group without any real cause.

Didn't you notice how their planets where stolen from them by a treaty? Most of them are fighting for their homes.

That is bullshit. It's not like they were told to leave and given no choice to resettle somewhere else. There are plenty of other planets in the galaxy and they could have asked for help from the Federation anytime they wanted to move. Instead they choose to remain on the Cardassian side of the border which is stupid considering the Cardassians aren't exactly the most xenophilous specie in the Alpha quadrant.

 

[eastman23]

^ Those colonies were their homes. Then one day, the Federation decides to suddenly give those planets to an empire they had been at war with before. I don't know about you, but I'd be a little miffed and there is no way that I'd want to give up all I worked for to make that colony thrive.

 

[Spurk]

Bajor turns away millions of refugees in Sanctuary
You may choose only one

• Bajor is not Kentanna.
• Bajor could have been Kentanna.
• Undecided/Other

I voted other, because in my view Bajor was not Kentanna, but it could have been.

 

[Montresor]

Great questions! I answered "undecided" to a few more this time than last time, such as the one about Kira's civilian targets in "The Darkness and the Light." Everything in those cases pretty much depends on what side you would be on, and it is hard to put oneself in either Kira's or Prin's places.

I definitely said that Roddenberry's vision was challenged to the benefit of the franchise. Things were more utopian in TNG than TOS, and by shaking things up in DS9 it made the kinds of stories presented seem fresh again.

 

[Sakrysta]

Kasidy Yates delivers supplies to the Maquis and betrays Sisko in For the Cause
Undecided/Other

Kira Meru becomes a comfort woman for Dukat in Wrongs Darker than Death or Night
Undecided/Other

Curzon Dax has an affair with General Tandro's wife in Dax
Dax's new nickname: Dirty old man!

I see absolutely NO justification for adultery under any circumstances.

Kira and others in the resistance bomb civilian targets during the Occupation according to Prin in The Darkness and the Light
Undecided/Other

Bilby in Honor Among Thieves
Turning to crime is still wrong, and he endangered his family more than not.

Bashir's parents genetically enhanced him as a child in Dr. Bashir, I presume?
Undecided/Other

Odo allows three Bajoran innocents to die under his watch during the Occupation in Things Past
Undecided/Other

Bashir cuts off Bariel's Life Support
Bariel's spark of life would have been gone if Bashir continued treating him. It was the right decision.

Kira evacuates a Bajoran against his will from a moon in Progress
She had to to save his life.

Bajor turns away millions of refugees in Sanctuary
Bajor could have been Kentanna.

Vedek Winn opposed secular talk of the wormhole in Keiko O'Brien's classroom in In the Hands of the Prophets
Winn was right in the Keiko's classroom should have had room for all philosophies.

But, what Winn was demanding wasn't right either. Keiko should have taught what exploration had learned about the wormhole as well as what the Bajorans believed it meant for their world. There was room for both - I always thought that whole argument was rather silly, and while I don't agree with Winn most of the time, I felt Keiko was being unreasonable.

Rom conspires to assassinate Quark in The Nagus
It was wrong…no matter what the Rules of Acquisition are, opportunity shouldn’t be put ahead of family.

I just can't justify murder, regardless of the "culture."

Worf and Kor each had plans to use the Sword of Kahless to lead the empire
Undecided/Other

From the episode, I gathered the sword had some mystical influence over the Klingon who wielded it. So, while I don't think Worf or Kor should have run home and taken over the empire, I don't believe they were completely in control of themselves while holding the sword.

Tom Riker steals the Defiant for the Maquis
His motives were selfish because he was only trying to be better than his counterpart, William Riker.

Poor Tom. When do we get to rescue him, anyway? I was always miffed that Kira never kept her promise to get Tom out of there.

Garak
Undecided/Other

Garak is capable of great evil, but also great good. Appropriate that Cardassians have gray skin, n'est-ce pas?

Dukat
Undecided/Other

More like Garak than either would care to admit, Dukat gained the advantage in the evil department with his megalomania. But even Dukat was capable of love and selflessness. Too bad he didn't demonstrate it more often.

Section 31
Protecting the Federation or not, it had no business existing.

*shudder*

Genocide, murder, betrayal, lies, torture, greed, espionage, theft, government take-overs...
…challenged Roddenberry’s vision which helped reinforce his ideas and made DS9 stronger as a Star Trek series

 

[Pegaritaville]

Another interesting survey.

I wasn't sure on a few of them. Concering Curzon's affair, I didn't necessarily consider him wrong (it takes two to tango, after all), but I wouldn't say the affair was "alright" just because Enina Tandro's marriage was on the rocks.

I also wasn't sure about Bashir's genetic enhancements. From the relaunch novels, I got the impression that Julian wasn't severely disabled. Maybe the doctors couldn't be more precise in their improvements, but it seems like they went a little overboard with the enhancements. Correcting disabilities is one thing, but giving someone vastly superior skills is another thing all together.

 

[vermillion]

I love your morality polls they show how many times DS9 left it up to the viewer to decide if a particular action was right or wrong.

I just wanted to comment on Religion In School part.
Keiko did a good job explaining what the wormhole aliens are and what role they play in Bajoran culture. I don't think school is a right place to glorify the wormhole entities as prophets or gods and it is very ignorant towards cultures of non-Bajoran children. If parents want to take that approach to raising their children the temple is always open for people like that. I wouldn't want somebody brainwashing my kid at school.

Too bad this is your last DS9 morality poll. Can we expect something similar in the future (other forum maybe?) or are you giving up on these for good?

 

[Kevin Fajo]

Wonderfully done.

I would like to point out that right now the Bashir enhancement question is completely tied with eleven votes in each choice. I think that's great. There should be no clear answer in lots of these questions. Was it right? Was it wrong? Well who can say for sure? Choices are made and thats whats so fascinating.

"We choose things and then we lose things"- Sondheim

I only had to use Undecided onece because as I have said in the previous polls, I usually make up my mind right after seeing the episode. This way I can go forward witha completely clear personal vision of each character and their history. Upon repeat viewings, I have changed my mind about certain things (which is also fantastic) and these morality polls really show how varied the questions of life can be- not to mention their interpretations.

I love the Winn/Keiko question. Its relevant to today's world and there is no absolute in this case. I know in today's world religion might not belong but by the 24th century, I hope "philosophies" and "religions" and "customs" are viewed differently than they are today. Its an aspect of the utopian openminded society I always look forward to.

 

[Spurk]

Posted by vermillion:
I wouldn't want somebody brainwashing my kid at school.

Did you catch that that's what both people were saying?

Say you're an atheist, you have a kid, you send him to school. Do you want him learning that many Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe that God created the universe in 6 days? Even if the emphasis is on the fact that this is a belief held by these people, and not accepted by people not of those religions, you might still perceive it as a threat to your child. You might say it's brainwashing.

Now say you're a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, you have a kid, and you send her to school. Do you want her learning that many scientists believe that the universe was slowly assembled through a process of trial and error over the course of several zillion years? Even if the emphasis is on the fact that this does not necessarily negate any religious doctrines, and that some people don't accept the theory, you might still preceive it as a threat to your child. You might say it's brainwashing.

In my opinion, there isn't an easy answer to this problem besides simply not discussing it. One of the reasons I've always liked ItHotP.

 

[vermillion]

^^^^Sorry if you misunderstood me.
I think discussing religion and acknowledging different cultures in an objective manner is acceptable and that's exactly what Keiko did. But Winn was suggesting that Keiko should reinforce the teachings of the prophets, not Bajoran culture but teachings of the prophets. It would be like forcing kids to do Bible studies on a daily basis in a public school.

I don't mind children learning about various religions but to influence their opinions about religion and to shape their belief in school is wrong. Would you find it acceptable if your child came home saying his teacher told him that prophets hold everybody's destiny and they are the true way?

OK, maybe you wouldn't mind and your response would be something like "Hey I think I met your teacher at a Star Trek convention last year" .

 

[Sakrysta]

Posted by Kevin Fajo:
"We choose things and then we lose things"- Sondheim

YOU ARE MY NEW BEST FRIEND!

(Even if you did get the order backwards - "we lose," then "we choose." )

Are you a Sondheim fan in general, or just Sunday in the Park with George?

 

[Kira's Mom]

Wow. Another great poll, another bunch of undecided questions for me!!! (Except for Bareil- Bashir made the right choice, and Garak- despite some amoral things...he still managed to do plenty of good.)

 

[Kevin Fajo]

Posted by Sakrysta:

Posted by Kevin Fajo:
"We choose things and then we lose things"- Sondheim

YOU ARE MY NEW BEST FRIEND!

(Even if you did get the order backwards - "we lose," then "we choose." )

Are you a Sondheim fan in general, or just Sunday in the Park with George?

Oh yes I apologize for flip-flopping! Never quote the brilliance of Sondheim before coffee!!

All Sondheim rocks. I don't love Passion but Sunday is my favorite. Ifyou are able to get to Broadway in the next few weeks I recommend Assassins at Studio 54. It is one of my personal favorites and the production is immensely moving. Into the Woods (not the revival) and Sweeny Todd and Company and on and on and on and on. I think Sondheim is my religion!