Probably.
The Final Countdown
- Thread starter Zeta
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Probably.
Great movie. A true forgotten gem.
That being said, I don't think you could successfully remake this given the passage of time. Pearl Harbor was seventy years ago at this point, not forty. As a result, the twist at the end wouldn't work.
That being said, I don't think you could successfully remake this given the passage of time. Pearl Harbor was seventy years ago at this point, not forty. As a result, the twist at the end wouldn't work.
The James Farentino and Katherine Ross characters would be well over a hundred at this point [assuming they were even still alive] and far too old to be the CEO and his wife
^ They could add some intervening generations. Have nuTideman be the son or grandson of nuOwens.
I watched through the first time in Japanese with the subtitles turned on figuring it was somehow a "purer" interpretation of the show. Don't ask me, I was staring at a hurricane heading my way and wasn't thinking straight. Last night, I re-watched a couple episodes on the first disc without changing the default language options ... what the heck? Can't American voice actors handle Japanese accents?! And these weren't even good southern accents. The medical officer sounded like Sandy from Sponge Bob! Oh well.
Thanks again for the heads-up on this series, Forbin. I'll probably order the rest of the discs this week.
I suppose they could remake the movie with the Nimitz still getting lost in the early eighties. Or as Mr. Laser Beam suggested, they could add another generation. A wibbly-wobbly, timey-whimey writer might tack on some anti-aging properties of time travel so Commander Owens is just a little older at the end of the movie.
Personally, I'd prefer if a remake took the Zipang approach and left the Nimitz in 1941, making a franchise out of the alternate universe that develops. And while they're at it, change the ship from the Nimitz to the Enterprise ... 'cause the Enterprise does stuff like that.
The problem with that is you don't get the same, visual, big reveal. You would have to have Tideman explain, not show, the connection.
Agreed. that woud kill the punchline of the story.
Watched the film this morning, and this occurred to me: isn't there a period where both Owens and tideman exist at the same time? Cdr. Owens is in his 30s, I'm guessing, at the time Nimitz has it's little adventure. Let's say he was probably born around 1945 or '46. In the meantime, you've got full-grown Owens/Tideman living in the same timeline from December '41 forward.
We also find out toward the end of the movie that Owens had no family. Perhaps Tideman was pulling strings from a distance to ensure he had the proper career path to lead him to where he ended up?
It wouldn't be that hard. Just have the same actor be in the car, apparently not aged a day. Have the inspector/whatever (Sheen's character) express surprise at that fact and have the guy say, "Oh you mean my grandfather," or something.
I don't think it'd ruin it.
^ Agreed. That final punchline/reveal isn't really that important. There's lots of room to tweak it.
As for Tideman pulling strings to ensure that Owens is where he needs to be? Very likely. Also, Laurel probably used HER knowledge in order to help Owens establish a new identity as Tideman.
As for Tideman pulling strings to ensure that Owens is where he needs to be? Very likely. Also, Laurel probably used HER knowledge in order to help Owens establish a new identity as Tideman.
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Not probably.
Absolutely, and decisively.
The Japanese wouldn't even know from whence their demise came.
Checkmate
Commodore
The "big reveal at the end" isn't really all that important to the story anyway. It was, at absolute best, a B story and the movie would have been just as interesting without it. The movie's about a modern carrier thrown into the middle of WWII. That's the only thing that really matters.
*IF* the Nimitz stayed in the past and fought:
War with Japan: Remember, that while the Japaneese were flying to Pearl, War was (supposed) to be declared in Washinton. By the time the events in Pearl became known, the Japaneese declaration of war would be completed, so the war was on regardless of spin.
My question would be: Exactly how LONG an impact could the Nimitz make? All it's planes and armament is from the future, so they only have whats on board. Certainly, it could make a huge difference initially in the Pacific. How long would it take to re-engineer usable fuel and munitions? Probably by the end of the war it's decks would be covered with Corsairs.
With the secrets and technology on the Nimitz, odds are it would have been removed from service and studied.
Of course, the Nimitz is a nuclear vessel, with officers aboard that know how it works. This would have moved the development of the Nuclear Bomb forward dramatically, likely introducing Nukes to the European war, which would have a dramatic impact on future European history, and how would Russia have acted? or been dealt with?
War with Japan: Remember, that while the Japaneese were flying to Pearl, War was (supposed) to be declared in Washinton. By the time the events in Pearl became known, the Japaneese declaration of war would be completed, so the war was on regardless of spin.
My question would be: Exactly how LONG an impact could the Nimitz make? All it's planes and armament is from the future, so they only have whats on board. Certainly, it could make a huge difference initially in the Pacific. How long would it take to re-engineer usable fuel and munitions? Probably by the end of the war it's decks would be covered with Corsairs.
With the secrets and technology on the Nimitz, odds are it would have been removed from service and studied.
Of course, the Nimitz is a nuclear vessel, with officers aboard that know how it works. This would have moved the development of the Nuclear Bomb forward dramatically, likely introducing Nukes to the European war, which would have a dramatic impact on future European history, and how would Russia have acted? or been dealt with?
It depends in what capacity it was used. Make it part of a battle fleet. With it's advanced radar and communications equipment it could detect enemy forces and direct it's allies to them under all conditions at exceptional range. Instead of hunting for enemy formations though out the Pacific American submarines can be guided to the most efficient intercept point, then brought away safely avoiding any possible threats. Nimitz could help devastate the Japanese fleet without even launching a plane.
Useable fuel and munitions were already available in 1941.
There’s nothing special whatsoever about jet fuel. It’s basically just diesel engine fuel, really.
And the aircraft of 1981 could equip the same conventional munitions as were available in 1941. The benefit isn’t immediately obvious until you realize that the higher speed, higher altitude, radar equipped 1980’s aircraft could literally bomb their targets with impunity.
Possible. Let’s also not underestimate the value of the INTEL that future people would have access to just by nature of knowing how certain things were going to turn out on the battlefield. For example, imagine how much better Normandy would have gone if our military folks from the 1980’s had strongly urged a more sustained and lethal shore bombardment prior to landing troops. Or Market Garden, the factors that led to that fiasco could be mitigated.
Frankly, the Butterfly Effect would make Normandy a moot point, Intel-wise. Too much time for events to alter. Having Nimitz demolish the Japanese fleet on Dec 7-8 would probably force Japan to sue for peace. Think of the "shock and awe" involved. The Japanese would be so bewildered by the jets and the impact of hi-tech radar they'd crawl into a catatonic ball. As for re-arming, the 1981 Nimitz wasn't really equipped with modern smart weapons. Rigging munitions points to carry 1941/2 weapons would be easy. And for Missiles-just give one to Goddard and his people. They'll work it out...
^^^ No rigging required. The jets of 1981 were perfectly capable of carrying the bombs of 1941.
As for the missiles, well, there's a lot more to them than just the aerodynamics/rocketry aspects. There's electronics that 1941 simply had no infrastructural ability to create.
As for the missiles, well, there's a lot more to them than just the aerodynamics/rocketry aspects. There's electronics that 1941 simply had no infrastructural ability to create.
When Chapman tries to warn Pearl, they ignore him ("...as we have no aircraft carrier Nimitz, and no Captain Yelland...") immediately. If Chapman hadn't revealed either of those things, and just said he was on a friendly vessel, I wonder if his warnings would have been believed.
The aircraft aboard the Nimitz would be, in 1942, almost too valuable to deploy in combat. While the fuel (a 50-50 mixture of kerosene and gasoline -- JP-4 was introduced in 1951) would be easy to get, and they might be able to mount some contemporary munitions, an F-14 would have a number of components that would be irreplaceable in that era. Things like turbofan blades, structural elements, electronic components, which would all suffer normal wear and tear in addition to damage in combat situations couldn't be replaced except by scavenging them off other Tomcats.
I imagine the ship to be quickly equipped with ordinance and planes easily produced in the era. A squadron of Wildcats modified to work with the launchers and arrestors, supported by, perhaps, two active Tomcats might be likely. Similar arrangements might be needed for the Hawkeyes and Seasprites (which provide early warning and anti-submarine support respectively).
The Nimitz herself is an interesting situation. Too valuable to lose, and probably too valuable to hold out of the war, it wouldn't be any fun if she was brought to port and reverse-engineered for hints that could be applied to the rest of the fleet. Instead, we'll consider her pressed into the war in the Atlantic (I'm considering her ordinance and fore-knowledge of Yamamoto's fleet positions rendering Japanese dominance of the Pacific a failure after having destroyed the fleet that launched the attack on Pearl (and possibly even the Philippines -- although specific forewarning about Bataan Island alone might be enough for American forces stationed there to resist the assault).
Once in the Atlantic, the Nimitz will quickly build a reputation as a super-ship. And she'd be a primary target for every submarine commander in the German Navy. "Sink the Nimitz!" would become the rallying cry of Deutschland. As powerful as she is, the Nimitz would still require an escort fleet, and the escorts of World War II are slower, and technologically inferior to the ships she was designed to sail with. The Seasprites would give her some advantage in this regard, but I think the Seasprites depend on expendable sensor pods that would be quickly depleted and hard to replace.
Given that the crew of the Nimitz have specialized knowledge about atomic energy, semiconductor electronics, computer science, jet propulsion, radar, it's a foregone conclusion that many of these specialists would be transferred to shore to upgrade overall U.S. technology. Recruits from the 1940s would replace them; probably the best of the era, but they'd still be playing catch up.
By the end of 1943, I expect the Nimitz to have been sunk, but many Nimitz-inspired refinements would begin spreading throughout the fleet. With less of a distraction from Japan, more U.S. effort could be concentrated against Hitler, and even though the atomic bomb would be developed earlier, I think the Reich would fall in 1944 instead of 45 ... again denying America a German target for the bomb.
The after-effects of a shortened WWII would be interesting. I think the character of the Cold War would change. Part of the reason Berlin was split with the Soviet Union was to soothe Stalin's fears about an expansionistic west, but if American forces so quickly overpowered Hitler and got to Berlin well ahead of any advance of Russian troops, I doubt the city would be divided. Also, without nukes to spur tension, the Soviets might not be so distrustful of the West.
For a few years, the world would be a better place.
Then there'd be the Korean War and that's where nukes would fall.
I imagine the ship to be quickly equipped with ordinance and planes easily produced in the era. A squadron of Wildcats modified to work with the launchers and arrestors, supported by, perhaps, two active Tomcats might be likely. Similar arrangements might be needed for the Hawkeyes and Seasprites (which provide early warning and anti-submarine support respectively).
The Nimitz herself is an interesting situation. Too valuable to lose, and probably too valuable to hold out of the war, it wouldn't be any fun if she was brought to port and reverse-engineered for hints that could be applied to the rest of the fleet. Instead, we'll consider her pressed into the war in the Atlantic (I'm considering her ordinance and fore-knowledge of Yamamoto's fleet positions rendering Japanese dominance of the Pacific a failure after having destroyed the fleet that launched the attack on Pearl (and possibly even the Philippines -- although specific forewarning about Bataan Island alone might be enough for American forces stationed there to resist the assault).
Once in the Atlantic, the Nimitz will quickly build a reputation as a super-ship. And she'd be a primary target for every submarine commander in the German Navy. "Sink the Nimitz!" would become the rallying cry of Deutschland. As powerful as she is, the Nimitz would still require an escort fleet, and the escorts of World War II are slower, and technologically inferior to the ships she was designed to sail with. The Seasprites would give her some advantage in this regard, but I think the Seasprites depend on expendable sensor pods that would be quickly depleted and hard to replace.
Given that the crew of the Nimitz have specialized knowledge about atomic energy, semiconductor electronics, computer science, jet propulsion, radar, it's a foregone conclusion that many of these specialists would be transferred to shore to upgrade overall U.S. technology. Recruits from the 1940s would replace them; probably the best of the era, but they'd still be playing catch up.
By the end of 1943, I expect the Nimitz to have been sunk, but many Nimitz-inspired refinements would begin spreading throughout the fleet. With less of a distraction from Japan, more U.S. effort could be concentrated against Hitler, and even though the atomic bomb would be developed earlier, I think the Reich would fall in 1944 instead of 45 ... again denying America a German target for the bomb.
The after-effects of a shortened WWII would be interesting. I think the character of the Cold War would change. Part of the reason Berlin was split with the Soviet Union was to soothe Stalin's fears about an expansionistic west, but if American forces so quickly overpowered Hitler and got to Berlin well ahead of any advance of Russian troops, I doubt the city would be divided. Also, without nukes to spur tension, the Soviets might not be so distrustful of the West.
For a few years, the world would be a better place.
Then there'd be the Korean War and that's where nukes would fall.
Nitpick... Carrier based Naval aircraft used JP-5, not JP-4.
Oh, and let's not forget that the Nimitz of 1981 in all likelihood would have nuclear weapons on board already anyway.
Oh! I stand corrected. I wonder how hard it would have been to quickly start making JP-5 in 1942.
Not too hard, I'm sure, it was introduced in the early 50's like JP-4 was. And in reality, a plane that runs on JP-5 can run on JP-4.
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