The Films Revisited

[EnriqueH]

Taking a few hours to think about it, here's how I rank them:

IV: This is my favorite. I feel good when I watch it, the movie series at its prime. I can sense the 1980s emanating from it, which is good for me because this was a good time in my life when my family prospered and my grandparents were alive and healthy. But it's a great movie. Probably not the Star Trek film I'd show to someone who has never watched a Trek movie before (unless it's a young child), but this will probably always be my favorite.

III: Practically tied with 4. The first one I saw theatrically. Love the story about friendship. I think the quality about Trek that continues to draw me to it over the years is its sense of friendship among the characters.

II: Quintessential Trek. I love Ricardo Montalban's villain. Enjoyed the action scenes, music, and script. I think I rank the other two above it because Spock's death always makes me a little upset, even though I know he comes back.

TMP: I can understand why the movie is criticized, but I love it anyway. I love the epic feel. I love the soundtrack. I love how the Enterprise feels full of people and energy and it's state of the art (compared to the claustrophobic, tired Enterprise in VI). Love the ending. We had the whole franchise ahead of us...

V: I can't believe I'm ranking V higher than VI, but I am because V is optimisitc, has great character moments, and is still Star Trek at its core IMO. Yes, the execution is off, Bran Ferren blew it, and it didn't quite come together, but its heart is in the right place and that makes up for a lot.

VI: This is technically better than V, but I find it lacks optimism. It's strangled by melancholy and has a depressed feeling about it. The whodunit was predictable and took too much time. I didn't care for the music at all. Great climatic space battle.

My former ranking:

III
IV
II
VI
TMP
TFF

 

[Hypaspist]

Six feels so dated. It kind of sucks that I know that they based so much of it on real world events. Chang and the whole court scene was badass when I first saw it...and then I learned that they were literally trying to copy Adlai Stevenson. That is so lame...it's like Lisa from the early Simpsons episodes. The writers were trying to channel their heroes from their youth - which in retrospect were insignificant and really showed a lack of creativity.

I feel like I have endless criticisms for 6. I think it was great as a kid though.

 

[Smellmet]

EnriqueH, I really agree with a lot of the points you make - the music in particular is one I agree with you 100%, whilst the score is in no way bad - far from it, I just would have so much prefered Goldsmith or Horner to have done it - the film needed some famous Trek movie music themes in it for the cast's final outing. The point you make about the music getting on the cheesy side at the ending is a perfect example. It came off as all just a bit generic compared to the amazing soaring themes in the first 3 movies, hell even TFF new when to play it safe in this regard.

The whole production is shot through with a whole dose of quality and realism compared to TFF (and some of the others too) with a a tight, simple storyline that satisfies and excites so well for these ageing characters. The humor for me in the main hits most of the right notes 'What is it with you anyway' is a perfectly delivered line by Bones that just a great example of the guy's dry wit and paints such a great picture of young Kirk cavorting with green women - the Klingon translation scene a great example of it falling a little flatter.

Overall though it's just a flat out entertaining movie that even casual fans can enjoy with some great visual effects for the time, which I just cannot say for the previous movie. I love it to bits.

 

[EnriqueH]

The other thing I didn't like about VI is that I didn't feel it had an epic scope, like it has a made-for-cable feel to it.

I've heard previous Trek films described as having a made-for-tv feel to it, but I just don't see it. I definitely see it in VI.

I think it's because the sets are so confining and lack depth.

Shit, I always thought Kirk's apartment in II/III was an actual apartment. The Enterprise in I and II felt like it was full of people. Everything in VI feels bare bones.

Another thing that I don't like about VI is that none of the characters change their clothes even once. Though I guess it's because the movie takes place in a 48-hour or so period.

 

[BillJ]

Another thing that I don't like about VI is that none of the characters change their clothes even once. Though I guess it's because the movie takes place in a 48-hour or so period.

I believe Kirk and McCoy change uniforms when they return to the Enterprise from Rura Penthe. Spock wears two different robes during the film. A dark robe (STII) during the scene in his quarters with Valeris, a white robe (STIII/IV) during the scene in his quarters with Kirk. The two assassins change from their uniforms into space suits and back. Scott wore his regular uniform during the conference at the beginning then changed into his engineer outfit once aboard the Enterprise. He also wore his regular uniform during the dinner with the Klingons.

Off the top of my head.

 

[EnriqueH]

Smart, I like.

Smartass, I don't.

(Guess the movie).

 

[BillJ]

Smart, I like.

Smartass, I don't.

(Guess the movie).

Nothing smartass about it. I was pointing out that your view of that particular point of the movie was simply wrong.

 

[EnriqueH]

Don't be defensive: It's a joke, dummy.

Anyway, I don't believe it seems like Kirk is ever in anything but his Starfleet uniform. He may have "changed his clothes" but I think the movie needed a "Kirk's apartment" type scene. I would've liked to have seen that casual jacket he wore in Star Trek V, which seemed to fit Shatner better than the standard uniform which was starting to look at bit like a girdle.

You're right about Spock and Scotty.

 

[velour]

I've always said that I love the first hour of the film, and I love the climax. Everything in between was inconsistent. The Director's Cut solved some of the problems for me, to the point where I thoroughly enjoyed the film.

The special effects and soundtrack really give the Trek universe an epic scope not seen before or since.

That could be the finest one hour (or so) of Trek in the history of the franchise. From the opening scene with the Klingons, thru to the near collision with the asteroid and the Kirk/Decker "stop competing with me Decker" scene. That was just riveting entertainment.

I saw TMP on the Syfy channel recently. I don't know what version of the film Syfy used, but I enjoyed the movie in any case.

I agree that it had an epic feel to it. TMP clearly had a high production value. I have to say that TMP is visually the most impressive of any of the Trek movies. Excellent music too.

At the end of TWOK, McCoy asked Kirk how he felt. Kirk said he felt "young". I feel that way about TMP. TMP comes across as fresh. The story was compelling. And all the actors still had a spring to their step, unlike in later movies. I thought that some of the actors were largely going through the motions in the later movies. I don't necessarily blame them since they were getting up there in age.

The movie may have dragged a bit in the middle. But it more than made up for it by the fantastic finish. I loved how Kirk matched wits with Vger. By the way, I think Shatner put on a good performance in all six movies (seven, if I count Generations, since his performance in Generations was the best thing about that movie).

What TMP lacked was the easy going comradery among Kirk, Spock and McCoy, although I liked the scene where Kirk was begging Spock to sit down. Spock's persona was different from what he was in TOS, nevertheless I found it amusing.

After having watched TMP again, I had to revise my rankings as well. I now rank it as #2 of the first 10 Trek movies.

 

[Smellmet]

Couldn't agree more. Just watched the DE version at the weekend back to back with TWOK, and I was amazed at how big, epic and expensive it felt, TWOK is such a different film - watching them back to back really highlights this, but TMP for me is pure Trek, a fantastic movie, and for me right up there with the very best Trek movies.

 

[Hypaspist]

I wish I could see what people like about the Whale one. I'm not against comedy or even camp. Some of my favorite episodes are the funny ones. I don't like it in the movie though, especially when they are trying to mix it with a desperately pandering message.

 

[Smellmet]

I generally view TVH as a separate entity to the other movies, even though it's part 3 of the 'trilogy' so to speak. It is just so different that I'm almost unable to judge it against the rest. I still like it though.

 

[dub]

TVH was such a clever way to tie up all of the loose ends. The ending still gets me a little emotional sometimes when they finally get back to the Enterprise. But I wonder how much more of an impact dropping the charges and the final scenes would have been if we had a more serious film to start with? Or I should say, less of a comedy?

Having said all of that, TVH is still one of my favorites.

 

[BillJ]

TVH was such a clever way to tie up all of the loose ends. The ending still gets me a little emotional sometimes when they finally get back to the Enterprise. But I wonder how much more of an impact dropping the charges and the final scenes would have been if we had a more serious film to start with? Or I should say, less of a comedy?

Having said all of that, TVH is still one of my favorites.

They lost Spock, David Marcus and the Enterprise plus had a high body count over the prior two films. I think The Voyage Home represented the perfect counterweight and change of pace to those films.

It isn't my favorite TOS film but I understand why they made the choices they made.

 

[dub]

^ I totally agree. I was just pondering the what-if.

 

[Hypaspist]

There is something to be said for a happier or more positive way to wrap things up. I think that Trek can work with our without big drama. TMP was momentous and had little personal drama. Wrath of Khan was the opposite - Khan killed a bunch of people but his overall impact in the galaxy was small. Still we had lots of emotion and drama in that one.

Maybe 4 and 5 could have been folded into one movie. You can wrap up the story with humor, but also introduce serious reflections on the part of the main characters. Sybok isn't a bad character either. I like the notion that there are some Vulcans who have a different philosophy.

 

[EnriqueH]

TVH is my favorite!

Nice to see some TMP. I'm always surprised how the cast disliked the first movie. Not one of them seemed to like it. I can't remember what Takei and Nichols said, but I know Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, and (correct me if I'm wrong) Koenig disliked it or weren't keen on it.

 

[BillJ]

Nice to see some TMP. I'm always surprised how the cast disliked the first movie. Not one of them seemed to like it. I can't remember what Takei and Nichols said, but I know Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, and (correct me if I'm wrong) Koenig disliked it or weren't keen on it.

Probably because they spent 90% of the shoot on the bridge set staring at a blank viewscreen.

 

[Hypaspist]

Walter Koenig has plenty of reason to hate the first. He has nothing interesting to do and he acts like a weirdo in the movie. I don't understand how everyone else could hate it though. The big three get plenty of good scenes.