The Federation Prime Directive; Non Interfere Policy

[Deks]

We've seen that non-interference policy doesn't apply specifically to everything though.
Even supplying humanitarian aid, or just initiating contact with another culture could be considered 'interference'.
Because, many less advanced (or even more advanced cultures) have often not faced the Federation approach to life and ideals in general... therefore, subsequent contact with the Federation could easily open them to different ways of thinking.

So... 'interference' was seemingly portrayed in TV shows to sharing of technology and directly altering the balance of power (though, these episodes DO feature some kind of Starfleet involvement, so again, how you define 'interference' seems important).

I do think that too fast introduction of vastly superior technology into a less advanced society could do more damage and good... at least if the culture in question lacks exposure to relevant general education, critical thinking and problem solving (which is often the root problem here... not technology itself).
So, what might be behind Federation's policy here is to limit interference to the point where the culture in question would improve upon its own education, sustainability, problem solving and demonstrate the ability to solve its own problems.

Realistically, most of these cultures are sufficiently advanced to solve their own problems... they merely lack education and exposures to properly apply the knowledge they have in practice - and that's a systemic issue if anything (one where the Federation may draw a line).

 

[BillJ]

I do think that too fast introduction of vastly superior technology into a less advanced society could do more damage and good...

Depends on the technology. Not sure introducing vaccinations would somehow damage a less advanced society.

Realistically, most of these cultures are sufficiently advanced to solve their own problems... they merely lack education and exposures to properly apply the knowledge they have in practice - and that's a systemic issue if anything (one where the Federation may draw a line).

In most of Kirk's violations, the people were either under control of a single entity or he was cleaning up someone else mess.

If we use the TV shows as a guide, then it seems starship captains have a lot of discretion where the Prime Directive is concerned. Heck, Picard twice violated the Prime Directive to save a single member of his crew. Playing part of changing a planetary government in "Code of Honor" and defying Edo law in "Justice".

 

[Crazy Eddie]

But guys, not to mention that it is too idealistic, but also, is illogical. Because space is not belong solely to the United Federation of Planet. There are Ferengi, Klingon, Romulan etc who can interact with these people, even when The Federation / Star Fleet not. So what's the point then? Does Federation capable to protect those "Medieval Era" Species from other Great Power?

Irrelevant. It's not the Federation's responsibility to PROTECT them from anything at all. The Prime Directive gives Starfleet officers some leeway in how they go about those kinds of situations, but it isn't up to the Federation to run around being the galaxy's policeman, keeping other governments from screwing around with under-developed societies.

As Admiral Chekote once said, "The Cardassians might involve themselves in other people's civil wars. We don't."

And Star Fleet won't have enough resource / military capability to protect all the lesser technologically species from Romulan, Klingon, Dominion, Borg, etc.

Which is the PRACTICAL reason why they never bother to try. The Federation protects its own; it can't protect everyone, and it doesn't even try.

The MORAL reason is the same as the out of universe reason: the Prime Directive is basically the antidote to the White Man's Burden. It is the Federation's vaccine against its own potential hubris. The idea that a powerful military gives one either the wisdom or the right to act as a patron over a lesser-developed society has lead to ALOT of unintended negative consequences in Earth history, and probably the histories of many other Federation worlds. If the past is prologue, the Federation is well aware that their intervention will be a harmful influence the overwhelming majority of the time.

A controversial exception to this might be Bajor... or at least it WOULD have been, except for the fact that Sisko's directive to bring Bajor into the Federation was tightly constrained by the Prime Directive itself. Even after they named him as one of their most sacred religious figures, even after he exposed Cardassian involvement in their civil war, even after Bajor was actually READY to join the Federation and very nearly did, the choice was still left to Bajor, its government and its people over when and how they joined the Federation.

Plus, the reason that those creature will polluted by the 24th Technology is sound stupid. If they are not ready to learn the 24th Century Technology, then they won't be able to learn it even when you teach them how to build Warp Drive.

Warp drive is hard to build. Bombs and firearms? Not so much. Even phasers probably aren't that complicated to build once you understand the basic technologies behind them.

Even ACCIDENTALLY providing those technologies can disrupt the balance of power over an entire civilization. Imagine if in 1946 somebody accidentally left a pair of hand phasers in a bunker in China. Those two phasers wouldn't allow Mao to overthrow Chang Kai Chek -- he did that entirely on his own -- but after forty years of careful study and reverse engineering we start seeing the People's Army marching into Russia and Japan lead by troops and gunships equipped with phaser weapons. If we're VERY lucky, the Chinese just conquer the world and unify it under a single government that (more or less) runs things smoothly and keeps everyone's dignity. If we're not lucky -- which, let's face it, we probably wouldn't be -- we wind up with a war that costs tens of millions of lives and results in the extermination of at least two major ethnic groups.

So the prime directive can be summarized thusly:
1) Mind your own business
2) Don't give guns to children
3) Mind your own business

 

[SWHouston]

If you're "explorers", then explore.
If you run into the occupied, be polite...
move on.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Which would fall under the "living cultures" clause that obviously exists.

And at that, probably to avoid the technicality of some lawyer deciding that a group of survivors marooned on a desert planet for twenty years wouldn't constitute a "civilization" and result in Starfleet officers hesitating to rescue them (something like this probably HAPPENED a little before Kirk's time, with a Starfleet captain believing that the survivors had "gone native" not unlike Terra Nova, but in this case resulting in a major tragedy). The same would apply to lost colonies, prisons and refugees who form what can only be identified as temporary settlements that were not meant to be permanent and whose existence is being sustained artificially.

This is probably why the colony in "Masterpiece Society" isn't protected under the Prime Directive. The environment and conditions are sustained artificially; although it DOES have a good long-term prognosis and can be sustained for a good length of time, it isn't a "living society" so much as "a society on life support." So people who ask Starfleet to help them leave can do so without violating the Prime Directive.

One could probably also make the argument about whether or not Eminiar VII was a "living culture" as they had been locked into an action for five centuries.

Strictly speaking, Eminar VII had initiated hostilities with a Federation vessel. Technically, Kirk shouting their master computer to death was an act of self defense.

 

[hux]

As Admiral Chekote once said, "The Cardassians might involve themselves in other people's civil wars. We don't.

Which, in my opinion, only highlights how worthless the PD is. It's only as strong as its weakest link and in this context, the weakest link is... every other species in the galaxy that doesn't sign up to it.

"We are morally superior," said the Starfleet captain as he watched the Romulans conquer the backward planet of troglodytes and steal all their natural resources.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Which, in my opinion, only highlights how worthless the PD is.

What's "worthless" about that? "Never get involved in somebody else's civil war" is a DAMN GOOD IDEA.

Consider all the terrorism and mayhem the Cardassians would have experienced if they HAD used the Bajoran Civil War to try and reoccupy Bajor; the Bajorans have just spent the last couple of years forging alliances, developing new technologies, building new ships and strengthening the militia; just three months later, the Maquis made their big debut by blowing up the Bok Nor, and would continue to get stronger for years to come (expansion curbed ONLY by Cardassia's relationship with Starfleet).

In other words, if the Cardassians' plan had worked, it would have IMMEDIATELY blown up in their faces, resulting in a Bajoran/Maquis reign of terror the likes of which their planet had never known before. Only a couple of years later, Eddington's crew would have been able to obtain cloaking devices and interplanetary missiles from the Klingons with enough range to strike at Cardassia directly, and not long after that the Dominion would start making its first moves into the Alpha Quadrant (and with the wormhole controlled by Cardassia, guess who their first target would be)? These is not things they could have POSSIBLY anticipated, which is the whole point of the Prime Directive.

And the reverse is just as true: if the Federation had gotten involved to counter the Cardassians, then THEY would be facing terrorist reprisals from the Bajorans as well as the Maquis. The Kohn Ma, the Shakar, all the old Bajoran resistance groups would have an abundance of incredibly soft Federation targets on which to vent their rage. And the Federation would have no one to blame but themselves for kicking a hornet's nest of despair and resentment more than sixty years in the making.

Let the Cardassians stick their heads in that noose if they want to. The Prime directive says "Keep your nose out of other people's business." It's not just to protect other people from the Federation's misjudgment, it's also to protect the Federation from its own.

the weakest link is... every other species in the galaxy that doesn't sign up to it.

Which isn't the Federation's problem. Quite the contrary, it's the problem of every other species in the galaxy that wants to learn the hard way what happens when you stick your dick a hole in the wall with no idea what's on the other side of it.

 

[hux]

What's "worthless" about that? "

If the Federation are the only people who have such a policy then it's worthless to the rest of the galaxy because the Federation is a negliible force within that galaxy. As an inhabitant of a planet that's just been conquered by the Cardassians, I'm hardly gonna give a shit that the Federation are congratulating themselves for not engaging in similar activities.

The fact that the Federation Starship USS Patronising flew by doesn't really change the fact that my planet has just been conquered.

Ergo... The PD was pretty worthless to me.

Which isn't the Federation's problem. Quite the contrary, it's the problem of every other species in the galaxy that wants to learn the hard way what happens when you stick your dick a hole in the wall with no idea what's on the other side of it.

And if they are sticking their dicks in holes on a regular basis, then that clearly demonstrates that occasionally... their dicks find something good. Otherwise they wouldn't keep doing it. For every civil war they get caught up in, they also end up ruling a planet with hugely beneficial resources.

 

[Unicron]

Perhaps it might be fair to say there are situations where the Federation wouldn't want to interfere with other planets or cultures directly, but might feel it has no choice if there's a potentially significant threat to its interest by not acting. I don't think it necessarily has to be a binary situation, either/or, but it would depend a great deal on specific circumstances.

 

[BillJ]

Perhaps it might be fair to say there are situations where the Federation wouldn't want to interfere with other planets or cultures directly, but might feel it has no choice if there's a potentially significant threat to its interest by not acting. I don't think it necessarily has to be a binary situation, either/or, but it would depend a great deal on specific circumstances.

Yep.

They obviously involved themselves on Organia ("Errand of Mercy"), Capella ("Friday's Child") and Neural ("A Private Little War") where the Klingons had boots on the ground. Even the almighty Prime Directive is going to fall victim to not being in the Federation's best interest on occasion.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

If the Federation are the only people who have such a policy then it's worthless to the rest of the galaxy because the Federation is a negliible force within that galaxy.

Did you not read ANYTHING that I just wrote? Had the Cardassians successfully intervened on Bajor, they would have become so mired in border disputes and planetary terrorism that they would never be able to act as a regional power again. Their intervention would have CRIPPLED them.

The exact same thing would have happened to the Federation, for pretty much the exact same reason. It turns out that NOT running around trying to solve everyone else's problems is exactly why Starfleet is such an effective force: because they don't waste resources trying to play the hero in situations they don't understand whose consequences they cannot really control.

The Klingons do, which is why the Federation defeated them. The Romulans USED TO, which is how the Federation defeated them in the 22nd century. The Cardassians still do, which is why they ended up getting rolled by the Klingons and then the Dominion.

Refraining from wasting resources on military misadventures doesn't make Starfleet "negligible" at all. Quite the opposite: it makes Starfleet far more focussed and efficient than its competitors who have to put out fifty different fires their governments accidentally started outside their borders.

As an inhabitant of a planet that's just been conquered by the Cardassians, I'm hardly gonna give a shit that the Federation are congratulating themselves for not engaging in similar activities.

Tell that to Major Kira. To her, and many others like her, the ONLY good thing the Federation had going for it was that the Federation respected Bajor's sovereignty and its right of self-rule: the fact that they would leave if the Bajorans government wanted them to. Without that very important characteristic they would have been just another foreign imperialist, and the Bajorans would have treated them EXACTLY the same way they treated the Cardassians: with violence, with terrorism, with war.

Yes, the Bajorans DEFINITELY gave a shit. They didn't want aliens running their planet, and they still don't. They accepted Starfleet because Starfleet promised that Bajor would be governed by Bajorans even if it DID join the Federation. Marching in to squash one faction or another in a civil war would have made that promise as empty as Gul Dukat's smile.

And if they are sticking their dicks in holes on a regular basis, then that clearly demonstrates that occasionally... their dicks find something good.

History suggests this is not really the case, even the fictional history of Star Trek. It turns out that EVERY major civilization goes through an aggressive colonizing period where meddling with the affairs of their neighbors seems like a really good idea. And every civilization, sooner or later, learns that it isn't really worth the trouble and puts a stop to that kind of nonsense (that or they over-extend themselves and are eventually crushed for their troubles). This is exactly what happened to the Chinese and Japanese Empires, it's what happened to the British Empire immediately before and during World War I, it happened to the Spanish, the Dutch and the French. It happened to the Roman Empire (twice!) it happened to the Ottomans, it happened to the Mongols, it happened to the Portuguese. It's what's happening to America right now.

And with the singular exception of the Borg, NONE of the great imperial powers of the Federation's neighborhood are more than a couple of decades old. Even the Klingons basically gave up their ambitions of conquest and became the Federation's peaceful (if rowdy) next door neighbors. You are essentially suggesting that the Federation should abandon the Prime Directive in favor of a more aggressive imperialist stance; you only have 3000 years of recorded history and the entire fictional history of Star Trek telling you that this isn't a good idea.

For every civil war they get caught up in, they also end up ruling a planet with hugely beneficial resources.

Case in point: the Klingons used to do this ALL THE TIME.

How'd that work out for them?

 

[Longinus]

Case in point: the Klingons used to do this ALL THE TIME.

How'd that work out for them?

Umm... Just fine?

 

[BillJ]

Tell that to Major Kira. To her, and many others like her, the ONLY good thing the Federation had going for it was that the Federation respected Bajor's sovereignty and its right of self-rule: the fact that they would leave if the Bajorans government wanted them to. Without that very important characteristic they would have been just another foreign imperialist, and the Bajorans would have treated them EXACTLY the same way they treated the Cardassians: with violence, with terrorism, with war.

Not sure Major Kira would give the Federation props for sitting back and watching her homeworld brutalized. Hiding behind non-interference.

Case in point: the Klingons used to do this ALL THE TIME.

How'd that work out for them?

Not sure the point you're making here?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Umm... Just fine?

Nope

 

[BillJ]

Nope

Not sure you can connect the Klingons not having a Prime Directive with the explosion of Praxis...

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Not sure Major Kira would give the Federation props for sitting back and watching her homeworld brutalized. Hiding behind non-interference.

You don't have to be sure of anything, because we have her own words on the subject:

Look, I don't want the Federation here any more than you do but they are serving a purpose. For the time being, at least. Without the Federation, the Cardassians would be back in a minute to take control of the wormhole. And the wormhole is the future of Bajor, Tahna. It's bringing ships and commerce. It's making us a power in the quadrant.

And Kira was one of those who never thought to ASK the Federation to help them when Cardassia spent sixty years brutalizing Bajor to their heart's content. She was actually pretty pissed that her government DID. The only thing that changed her mind was the opportunity presented by the wormhole and the fact that the Federation presence was tolerable enough that it solved more problems than it created.

That would CEASE to be the case were the Federation to actually involve itself in Bajor's internal politics. You run afoul of people like Tahna Los and Kira Nerys, you are BEGGING for trouble.

Not sure the point you're making here?

The Klingon Empire was not in any way equipped to deal with the fallout (literal or figurative) from Praxis' explosion. The Federation WAS, in fact they were so better positioned for it that the Klingons wound up running to them for help. The effective end of the Empire's conquering days began in that brilliant flash of light at the start of TUC.

Basically: Empires that expand by military interventionism must by definition devote a tremendous amount of their resources to keeping that military functional. You can't crush local insurrections on a dozen planets and hunt insurgents in twenty different star systems and STILL be powerful enough to take on your next largest regional rival, not unless you're willing to spend a MASSIVE amount of money on a full-time fighting force. This is what the Klingons did for over a hundred years before Praxis exploded, the result of which was an Empire that that was home to what Mara described as "poor planets," problems with overpopulation, a reliance on slave labor, repression, and a fascist government that held everything together with an iron fist. It's one thing to say the Klingons LIKE it that way (they don't) but why would the FEDERATION want to go that route?

 

[Longinus]

Nope

That's an argument for environmental regulation, not against imperialism. (There are great arguments against imperialism, but that's not one of them.)

And what makes you think Klingons stopped conquering stuff? I doubt they did, they just left the Federation planets alone.

 

[BillJ]

I imagine Kira's sentiments about the Federation would have more closely mirrored Keeve's during the occupation of her home. It was sad they never actually explored it...

PICARD: Can you help us locate him?
KEEVE: I'm sorry, I don't wish to help you. Don't misunderstand. I for one believe the raid on the Federation outpost was poor judgment. You are innocent bystanders, and I cannot condone violence against those who are not our enemies.
PICARD: Then I don't understand why you are unwilling?
KEEVE: Because you are innocent bystanders. You were innocent bystanders for decades as the Cardassians took our homes, as they violated and tortured our people in the most hideous ways imaginable, as we were forced to flee.
PICARD: We were saddened by those events but they occurred within the designated borders of the Cardassian Empire.
KEEVE: And the Federation is pledged not to interfere in the internal affairs of others. How convenient that must be for you, to turn a deaf ear to those who suffer behind a line on a map.

As far as the Klingons go, we don't know that they didn't continue to conquer worlds in their sphere of influence, even though they needed the Federation's help to save their homeworld. The seventy years between Khitomer and the beginning of TNG is a long time.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

That's an argument for environmental regulation, not against imperialism.

No, it's an argument for "Imperialists suck at dealing with non-military problems." Since you cannot SHOOT Praxis back into working order, having the most powerful military in the galaxy was pretty much useless to deal with that crisis.

And the Klingons, for the most part, knew this, which is why they called up the Federation and asked for peace.

And what makes you think Klingons stopped conquering stuff?

They wouldn't be Federation allies if they hadn't.

 

[BillJ]

They wouldn't be Federation allies if they hadn't.

I doubt that is true. Especially after the song and dance about "internal matters of the Empire" we heard about in "Redemption". Pretty sure they could do whatever they wanted inside their own territory. What they do inside their borders would be an "internal matter of the Empire".