The Federation in Star Trek XI

[pookha]

To be fair, classic TOS was never spot-on and terribly well-defined at times concerning the purposes and missions of either the Federation or Starfleet. At times we were led to believe one was a defensive alliance a'la NATO while the other was purely scientific and exploratory in nature. Other times the UFP seemed like a unitary federal union or nation-state while Starfleet was its spaceborne army.

Forgive my two posts in a row. I still havent figured out how to multiquote from different people....

anyway, i agree with eddie. Thats the impression i was always left with TOS and Starfleet/The Federation.

i agree with the above.
heck they didnt even have the term federation for awhile.

 

[cooleddie74]

^
The first time the name "United Federation of Planets" was even mentioned in full was in "A Taste of Armageddon" late in Season 1(1967). Before that a few episodes like "Arena" mentioned "the Federation" but didn't use the organization's full title.

 

[darkshadow0001]

Curious...is it just me nitpicking or was the interpretation of the Federation in this movie wrong? Captain Pike calls it an interstellar, scientific, peacekeeping armada or words to that affect. It sounds like he's describing Starfleet not the Federation. Also it bothered me that no one called it United Federation of Planets. Again a small minor nitpick but bothered me.

Maybe things are a bit different in this universe.

 

[Myasishchev]

It's funny, until this thread came along I always remembered Pike as saying "Starfleet" and not "The Federation". I guess that's because Starfleet makes so much more sense.

That line did make me hopeful that maybe, one day, we'll get a Star Trek movie that actually is about exploration and peacekeeping, and not obsessed villains with superweapons...

The Motion Picture? The Voyage Home? Even if effectively they have the same plot devices, both resolved the conflict without violence of any kind (or, in TVH, at least any significant violence--they did lock some doctors and nurses in a room and waved a ray-gun at them, and arguably threatened the whalers with a starship).

 

[Sabataage]

I thought "armada" was an odd word for Pike to use in that context - a humanitarian and peacekeeping "armada"? But I never assumed he was speaking of anything but Starfleet in practical terms.

Personally, I'd like to see the word "armada" completely GONE from XII.

I like the use of "armada". A "humanitarian and peacekeeping armada" implies a universe where the Federation is under constant threat from the outside. Starfleet stands vigilant against an enemy they might not have ever seen before. They protect vulnerable planets and less advanced races who (thanks to the Prime Directive) may not even know they exist. And they have weapons. Lost of them. Because who knows what they'll face out there all alone in the middle of space. Hence the armada part in his speech. It has raised what some might call "unfortunate implications" for many people against the war or at least military intervention overseas. A foreign critic was bothered by that description (and Starfleet's general presentation in the movie) and wondered if this was how America saw its military on the world stage.

 

[JewelsNeeJulian]

What bothers a lot of people overseas and some here in the states is that most exploration (historically speaking) has been done by people in various armed services with ships typically armed to the teeth.

NASA, the U.S.'s civilian science branch, is a relatively recent innovation (Which has done a world of good). But when Man moves out to the Stars, scientists will be subborned to the needs of thier protectors aboard ship, as the Universe may not be a very nice place.

In Nu-StarTrek, we've definitely had confirmation that the Universe is a hostile place with the Klingon and Romulan Empires. StarFleet might want to be a pure exploratory agency, But Reality has intruded Rudely to inform the Explorers that It has other plans.

And so, the militarization of space proceeds apace. No matter how much the idealists want it to be otherwise.

 

[Rackon]

I thought "armada" was an odd word for Pike to use in that context - a humanitarian and peacekeeping "armada"? But I never assumed he was speaking of anything but Starfleet in practical terms.

Personally, I'd like to see the word "armada" completely GONE from XII.

I like the use of "armada". A "humanitarian and peacekeeping armada" implies a universe where the Federation is under constant threat from the outside. Starfleet stands vigilant against an enemy they might not have ever seen before. They protect vulnerable planets and less advanced races who (thanks to the Prime Directive) may not even know they exist. And they have weapons. Lost of them. Because who knows what they'll face out there all alone in the middle of space. Hence the armada part in his speech. It has raised what some might call "unfortunate implications" for many people against the war or at least military intervention overseas. A foreign critic was bothered by that description (and Starfleet's general presentation in the movie) and wondered if this was how America saw its military on the world stage.

My main objection to the use of the word "armada" in XI - and hence my desire to see it gone from XII - was that the term was overused, and used imprecisely. I believe words have specific meanings, and I like clarity and precision in describing things. My objection isn't political. It's grammatical and stylistic.

As the destruction of the Kelvin has shown, the universe can be a dangerous place. Certainly the UFP needs protecting. No argument there.

However, about that "armada" thing:

In the bar scene Pike's Starfleet is a "peacekeeping and humanitarian armada".

Uhura refers just a short time later to the Narada destroying a "Klingon armada".

Yet a few more minutes later Nero refers to the 7 (!) destroyed Starfleet ships off Vulcan as an "armada".

Enough with armada already! (And 7 ships, BTW, is not an armada.) Find another word, Orci and Kurtzman. "Fleet", "squadron" there's more words to describe a group of ships than armada.

I'm a former editor and that repetition in such widely varying contexts within the same movie within 40 minutes of each other just grated on my ear. I must confess that in most usage I'm familiar with armada is most often used to describe a vast fleet of ships, not simply groups of various sizes. And of course, armadas have over the centuries often been invasionary forces, although not that connotation exclusively.

So can we retire the overused term for the next movie? Please?