The Federation in Star Trek XI

[Admiral_Young]

Curious...is it just me nitpicking or was the interpretation of the Federation in this movie wrong? Captain Pike calls it an interstellar, scientific, peacekeeping armada or words to that affect. It sounds like he's describing Starfleet not the Federation. Also it bothered me that no one called it United Federation of Planets. Again a small minor nitpick but bothered me.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

We don't have to take everything a character says literally. We also shouldn't expect Pike to give a comprehensive and detailed definition of what Starfleet and the Federation are (and what the differences between those two are) in that particular scene. Pike wanted to get Kirk join Starfleet. He didn't want to hold a academic lecture on the nature and purpose of the Federation/Starfleet. Yes, Pike was simplifying things a bit.

 

[SalvorHardin]

We also shouldn't expect Pike to give a comprehensive and detailed definition of what Starfleet and the Federation are (and what the differences between those two are) in that particular scene. Pike wanted to get Kirk join Starfleet. He didn't want to hold a academic lecture on the nature and purpose of the Federation/Starfleet. Yes, Pike was simplifying things a bit.

Most logical.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IIRC, Bob Orci said on Trekmovie.com's Q+A thing after the film came out that he did it on purpose to mirror the doubletalk the US was spewing over "America's Enemies" (or something vaguely along those lines).

I don't think he really intended it to mean that the new Trek is a bunch of trigger-happy planets that rule with fear, or that the new Federation is really any different from the old.

But yeah, Pike should have said 'Starfleet', but isn't Starfleet the tool of the Federation?

 

[Anticitizen]

It's a pretty big flub to confuse the Federation with Starfleet, seeing as how the Federation is the government and Starfleet is the military. It would be like a Navy recruiter saying 'America is a humanitarian peacekeeping armada' or whatever.

 

[Jeri]

Kirk barely let Pike get out that much; I don't fault him for trying to shove as much propaganda in there as he could. But this topic has been discussed here before.

 

[davejames]

Actually the word I thought was strange was "armada." I don't exactly think it's the term Roddenberry would have liked used to describe either Starfleet OR the Federation.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Yes, well, Roddenberry's no longer alive.

 

[urbandk]

Yes, well, Roddenberry's no longer alive.

Let me get out my WWGRHD Ouija board.

 

[cooleddie74]

To be fair, classic TOS was never spot-on and terribly well-defined at times concerning the purposes and missions of either the Federation or Starfleet. At times we were led to believe one was a defensive alliance a'la NATO while the other was purely scientific and exploratory in nature. Other times the UFP seemed like a unitary federal union or nation-state while Starfleet was its spaceborne army.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Yes, well, Roddenberry's no longer alive.

Let me get out my WWGRHD Ouija board.

Well, what does it spell out? Don't keep us in suspense so much.

 

[ClayHefner]

Pike used the hick version.

 

[Rackon]

I thought "armada" was an odd word for Pike to use in that context - a humanitarian and peacekeeping "armada"? But I never assumed he was speaking of anything but Starfleet in practical terms.

Personally, I'd like to see the word "armada" completely GONE from XII. Pike says armada in questionable context in the bar, Uhura says armada to speak of 47 Klingon ships - which actually might be an "armada" as we know it - and Nero also says armada...7 ships is an armada? Is this the buzz word of the 24th century?

Sigh, once an editor, always an editor.

 

[Jeri]

Pike used the hick version.

The one for farm animals -- but not only farm animals.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

But yeah, Pike should have said 'Starfleet', but isn't Starfleet the tool of the Federation?

Or you could say the Federation exists only because Starfleet is there as an inducement (free security provided largely by human cannon-fodder).

I thought "armada" was an odd word for Pike to use in that context - a humanitarian and peacekeeping "armada"?

I dunno, I find that a very revealing choice of words. Humanitarian my Vorta ass!

To be fair, classic TOS was never spot-on and terribly well-defined at times concerning the purposes and missions of either the Federation or Starfleet. At times we were led to believe one was a defensive alliance a'la NATO while the other was purely scientific and exploratory in nature. Other times the UFP seemed like a unitary federal union or nation-state while Starfleet was its spaceborne army.

The last part was the dominant impression but really, the Federation itself has always been a cipher. It's this great black mass that Starfleet defends, but we're not exactly sure why except that without the Federation, what's Starfleet's reason for existing?

 

[ClayHefner]

IIRC, Bob Orci said on Trekmovie.com's Q+A thing after the film came out that he did it on purpose to mirror the doubletalk the US was spewing over "America's Enemies" (or something vaguely along those lines).

On the one hand, this sounds like Bob Orci making up shit to cover up this major oversight.

On the other hand, it's kinda hard to believe someone like him could have gotten something so essential wrong without noticing immediately.

 

[richpit]

We don't have to take everything a character says literally. We also shouldn't expect Pike to give a comprehensive and detailed definition of what Starfleet and the Federation are (and what the differences between those two are) in that particular scene. Pike wanted to get Kirk join Starfleet. He didn't want to hold a academic lecture on the nature and purpose of the Federation/Starfleet. Yes, Pike was simplifying things a bit.

Agreed.

 

[JohanKoch]

It's funny, until this thread came along I always remembered Pike as saying "Starfleet" and not "The Federation". I guess that's because Starfleet makes so much more sense.

That line did make me hopeful that maybe, one day, we'll get a Star Trek movie that actually is about exploration and peacekeeping, and not obsessed villains with superweapons...

 

[God Magnus]

In my brain I substituted "Federation" with "Starfleet" too, but I don't find it that huge of a deal. In TOS there were several terms referring to the organization that the Enterprise was a part of including "Star Service" and "Space Fleet Command". I figure if you work in Starfleet, it's easy to use the term "Federation" interchangeably with it. To me it's the same as an army soldier saying "I serve America" instead of "I serve the army".

As for the word "Armada", I think it is a strong word with military overtones, but since the word is generic enough to refer to any group of vehicles, it fits the bill and I think it is used to good dramatic effect in that scene.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

Yes, well, Roddenberry's no longer alive.

Let me get out my WWGRHD Ouija board.

Well, what does it spell out? Don't keep us in suspense so much.

My puny brain can only figure out What Would Gene Roddenberry H? Do?