Spoilers The fate of the Federation

[Unimatrix Q]

Not being able to see the Short Treks, as they currently don't get released in Europe, i read many spoilers for "Calypso".

Apparently there are some really interesting hints for the future of the Federation during this episode. I'd like to speculate in this thread about what happens to the UFP between the 24th century and the 33rd century, the time "Calypso" is apparently set.

 

[1001001]

Calypso, as far as I could tell, didn't say anything about the fate of the Federation.

Spoiler: Calypso

All we know is that the ship states it has been holding position as ordered for 1000 years, when the entire crew left. We don't know why, or where they went, or if the ship is damaged and wrong about time. We weren't really given any other context for what was happening.

I do, however, have that John Denver song in my head now...

 

[Unimatrix Q]

It seems from what i read that they are still around. Now called the V'Draysh and may have become somewhat antagonistic.

 

[1001001]

Well, I didn’t pick up on that at all. I thought they were just some random species his people were at war with.

Since this is really based on having watched the mini-episode, and since I don’t think people will understand there are spoilers for DSC from the title of this thread, I’m going to go ahead and move it to that forum.

 

[Rahul]

It seems from what i read that they are still around. Now called the V'Draysh and may have become somewhat antagonistic.

The short only presents the viewpoint of one soldier fighting against the "V'Drayesh", who doesn't even talk about the war, and that both sides have connection to Earth (the soldier being from a human colony, the "V'Drayesh having Betty Boop cartoons play in their escape pods) without giving any further context or worldbuilding.

The only real truth we know is that there will be some kind of conflict/war in the year 3300. But between whom, and how big, and who is on which side, and why, and what they are fighting for, and by which means - nothing of that get's really specific. (Wich is pretty good writing, because it really doesn't really bind canon in any way)

This can literally mean everything, from the dreaded "fall of the Federation", to a small, regional warm up of a Federation/Maquis-like conflict. It's all left very open and very vague. So it's better to treat it the same way as the Enterprise-J from ENTs time travel. Could happen. Could not happen. Could happen but actually mean something entirely different than what we think it means. What really mattered where the two characters.

 

[Tuskin38]

Well, I didn’t pick up on that at all.

Most people wouldn't unless they read BTS info.

A couple people out there guessed and were right.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, I didn’t pick up on that at all. I thought they were just some random species his people were at war with.

They still can be.

Craft says that the V'draysh are heavily into relics from the past. This could be one of them. They could have just taken the name "Federation" because they liked the sound of it. And of course languages drift over time...

This is also a ready-made explanation for the computer interface in the escape pod being clearly in English. There's no way the English language would remain the same after a thousand years, so it is probably just a really old pod that the V'draysh held on to.

 

[Galaxy]

The only real truth we know is that there will be some kind of conflict/war in the year 3300. But between whom, and how big, and who is on which side, and why, and what they are fighting for, and by which means - nothing of that get's really specific. (Wich is pretty good writing, because it really doesn't really bind canon in any way)

The author did make it pretty clear however that the V'Draysh are the Federation, or at least what the Federation has evolved into. Now granted, it was not stated on screen, and there maybe reasons why the Producers did not allow that to be aired.

 

[Tuskin38]

there maybe reasons why the Producers did not allow that to be aired.

Or there are not. Because it wasn’t important to the story.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the V'Draysh are the Federation, or at least what the Federation has evolved into. Now granted, it was not stated on screen

/thread

 

[Rahul]

The author did make it pretty clear however that the V'Draysh are the Federation, or at least what the Federation has evolved into. Now granted, it was not stated on screen, and there maybe reasons why the Producers did not allow that to be aired.

1. He didn't. He agreed that the WORD "V'Draysh" comes from "Federation". That can mean anything - from an evolution of the Federation, to a spiritual successor, to only a mispronounciation.
2. What the author intended is non-canon anyway. Only what's on screen is really binding.

Edit: @Mr. Laser Beam beat me to it...

 

[guyute03]

Wish there was more clarification, on screen, about all of this. Never caught that this V'Draysh ARE the Federation, evolved, and I don't have time to listen to or read wherever the author said this information.

I enjoyed the short but this kinda infuriates me. Put these things into Trek canon, on screen, otherwise why exactly am I watching this?

 

[Rahul]

Wish there was more clarification, on screen, about all of this. Never caught that this V'Draysh ARE the Federation, evolved, and I don't have time to listen to or read wherever the author said this information.

I enjoyed the short but this kinda infuriates me. Put these things into Trek canon, on screen, otherwise why exactly am I watching this?

Yeah, I didn't really pick up on the "V'Draysh"-connection either. I just was really confused why they said the human travelling on the escape pod playing "Betty Boop" was supposed to have stolen an "enemy" escape pod.

This story really is about the meeting between the two characters. That's what's important. And that's what's good. But the whole world-building is really not that great - it might be well thought out, but it wasn't sufficiently explained on screen.

I'm less mad at it in the end, because overall it just doesn't matter - I liked it when I was watching it, and nothing in the future-worldbuilding is really specific. And I was just happy to see a genuinely good story in the DIScoverse. But yeah, if I had any criticism on this short - that would be it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe it's just another entity which at one point had the word "Federation" in its name. We hear that word, we automatically assume United Federation of Planets. But surely in an infinite universe, there could be dozens, if not hundreds, of other Federations? Which have nothing in common but that name?

Indeed, we know of at least one other - the First Federation.

Yes, yes, there's the pod. Which knows of Betty Boop and has clearly labelled English controls. But that's easily explainable:

1) The English could have come from Craft himself. Meaning, the pod recognized Craft as human and presented itself to him in a language he understood.

2) Assuming the V'draysh aren't the UFP, but some other "federation", they could have simply got ahold of the Betty Boop cartoons through some other means. I hate to keep going back to this, but the V'draysh are obsessed with relics of the past. They could have gotten the cartoons from the real UFP's database. Legally or illegally.

So in short, the word V'draysh could be descended from A Federation - doesn't have to be THE Federation.

 

[Rahul]

Shouldn't the universal translator adapt to language drift anyway?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Probably. We, the viewers, hear Craft and Zora speak in 21st-century English, but they pretty much have to have it that way. Dramatic license, nothing more.

What humans in-universe are actually hearing and speaking, OTOH, would surely be unrecognizable to us - just as present day English has little in common with how it sounded 400 years ago.

 

[Rahul]

Yeah, that's why it was also very weird that Craft didn't know what "Tuesday" meant. Like, we have names for our "days" since many thousand years! It should be reasonable that humans have that 1000 years in the future as well. Even on a colony (if said colony has a night-day-cycle - but even if not, most other planets have, and there should be a name for it). And "-day" was literally part of the word in the first place! But then it's just vocabulary, and the universal translator should have taken care of that.

I guess just the sensation of feeling alieness was more important at this point for the writer than the exact logic behind it. And I think so too! It's just one more reason why I don't think this short can be taken 100% at face value for what the Star Trek canon is in the year 3300. Although I'm sure fans will do exactly that...

Anyway, given that the setting was chosen to be "1000 years in the future", the vagueness and ambiguity of the depiction of the political situation and worldbuilding was IMO absolutely the right choice, and in my book goes down as a big "plus" for the writer.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

"V'Draysh" sounds like it may be a vulcan word imo. There are a lot of multible species hybrids out there in the 31st century, if we consider Daniels and what Star Trek Enterprise showed us about the 31rst century.

 

[Timo]

Yeah, that's why it was also very weird that Craft didn't know what "Tuesday" meant. Like, we have names for our "days" since many thousand years!

And for our weights, and lengths. We wouldn't recognize most of the words for those from mere 100 years back unless there were special circumstances, something like the concept of the pint persisting independently of the unit, the word league living on and keeping us curious about why some silly people think it's a unit of measurement, etc.

It should be reasonable that humans have that 1000 years in the future as well.

But also that the units involved would utterly change. Indeed, it's odd that the haven't, by the Trek 23rd century. Then again, aliens speak of "your Earth days" in TOS already; perhaps it's just a matter of what gets translated and for whom, and Craft doesn't strike Zora as the sort of guy who would prefer Earth days or the associated nomenclature.

And "-day" was literally part of the word in the first place!

But not aurally. It's "dyh", the way it's usually utilized, not "day".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cyrus]

This mini-episode has nothing to do with Federation or future of Federation. But Trekkies live up to their geeky reputation by over-analyzing it needlessly.