Actually, that was a Skrull pretending to be Alicia.
Spoilers The Fantastic Four: First Steps grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
That was a retcon after Byrne left the series. I think Byrne really wanted Johnny and Alicia to stay married.
It was good enough for Nick Fury.
An A from me.
And yeah I do have a pet peeve that even though they showed the musical authors of, and mentioned the Fantastic Four 1967 cartoon theme in the end credits - if it was somewhere in the film I never heard it; and it definitely was not used in the post-credits cartoon intro sequence that mimicked aspects of the 1967 Fantastic Four cartoon intro. If someone did hear the musical cues and can mention where they were in the film I'd love to know.
Aside from that, I loved the overall tone of the film, and the takes on these characters. Overall it was an amalgamation from a lot of sources and not just the comics directly; but for me that was okay.
- Loved that it all took place in the early 1960s of Earth 828. It was definitely the 1960s and they made a point of making sure all the TV footage was low standard def resolution; and outside of the Baxter building, for the most part the technology and TV show were definitely of the 60s.
- Loved the obvious quirk that the events depicted in the film took place 4 years after the Fantastic Four first went to space and got their powers.
- Loved that the ending live action post credits scene was stated to take place 4 years after the Galactus event.
- Loved the on-screen dissertation of what and who the FF had fought to date since they got their powers; and the villain name drops were in fact all from the era before the appearance of Galactus in FF comics issue #48.
- Especially love the live action Recreation of the cover art from Fantastic Four comics issue number #1.
- Love that when they panned across the country's attending the UN dissertation by Susan Storm; the representative from Latveria was absent/the chair empty.
- And yeah they turned it down the Sibling style in fighting between Ben and Johnny, but that was okay because honestly neither one of their behaviors would the tolerated in a film today.
- And yes as far as Johnny Storm goes, they aged him up from a teenager, made him quite not so hot headed, and probably gave him a little more intellect than he often showed in the comics; but I still thought it kept a lot of the important parts of the character, and I do like how they used him to affect the mindset of Shalla Bal; and the method in which he discovered her backstory.
- interesting that they did not have Alicia Masters involved with Ben as yet; and I may have misheard, but I thought the red-headed school teacher that expressed an interest in Ben; and which Ben also expressed an interest in was named Frankie Raye <-- someone who in later FF comics became involved with Johnny Stomthe Human Torch; and herself later became a Herald to Galactus. This isn't a ding against the film at all and in fact I think it's great they didn't try to just shoehorn her in because she is also the daughter of the FF villain the Puppet Master, so yeah, if they addressed part of that it would have added another thread that really didn't fit this story.
- Loved that they used Galactus actual origin story background pretty much verbatim from the i#168 ssue of Thor. I loved the take they had on Galactus in this film; although I have to wonder what they did with Galactus ship that was still in orbit above Earth after he was teleported to the other side of the universe?
- I was also impressed with their handling of the Franklin Richards storyline, and they managed to compress a lot of the personal aspects that played out for a few years in the comics between Sue and Reed. It'll be interesting to see if they get to/ ever do the storyline where Reed has to put Franklin in suspended animation; which destroyed Sue emotionally, and led to them being divorced for a ttme; but yeah given their planning to do a full MCU reboot after Avengers Doomsday; they probably won't go there with this version of the FF. But they sure drove the point of Franklin's power level home when he resurrected the dead Susan Richards.
And yeah I did love the fact that the final post credits sequence had Dr Doom with his metal mask off kneeling in front of 4 year old Franklin Richards as Sue walks back to him.
It's very fitting that the first MCU on screen live action appearance of Dr Doom occurs in the first MCU Fantastic Four film.
( and I also love that we are going to see a lot more of the MCUVFantastic Four in both Avengers Doomeday, and Secret Wars.
They did not end with the Fantastic Four from Earth 828 flying into the existing MCU universe as seen in the post credit scene of Thunderbolts; so yeah I assume we'll see the events leading up to that in Avengers Doomsday.
So yeah, loved this film, and looking forward to seeing more with this version of the Fantastic Four.
And yeah I do have a pet peeve that even though they showed the musical authors of, and mentioned the Fantastic Four 1967 cartoon theme in the end credits - if it was somewhere in the film I never heard it; and it definitely was not used in the post-credits cartoon intro sequence that mimicked aspects of the 1967 Fantastic Four cartoon intro. If someone did hear the musical cues and can mention where they were in the film I'd love to know.
Aside from that, I loved the overall tone of the film, and the takes on these characters. Overall it was an amalgamation from a lot of sources and not just the comics directly; but for me that was okay.
- Loved that it all took place in the early 1960s of Earth 828. It was definitely the 1960s and they made a point of making sure all the TV footage was low standard def resolution; and outside of the Baxter building, for the most part the technology and TV show were definitely of the 60s.
- Loved the obvious quirk that the events depicted in the film took place 4 years after the Fantastic Four first went to space and got their powers.
- Loved that the ending live action post credits scene was stated to take place 4 years after the Galactus event.
- Loved the on-screen dissertation of what and who the FF had fought to date since they got their powers; and the villain name drops were in fact all from the era before the appearance of Galactus in FF comics issue #48.
- Especially love the live action Recreation of the cover art from Fantastic Four comics issue number #1.
- Love that when they panned across the country's attending the UN dissertation by Susan Storm; the representative from Latveria was absent/the chair empty.
- And yeah they turned it down the Sibling style in fighting between Ben and Johnny, but that was okay because honestly neither one of their behaviors would the tolerated in a film today.
- And yes as far as Johnny Storm goes, they aged him up from a teenager, made him quite not so hot headed, and probably gave him a little more intellect than he often showed in the comics; but I still thought it kept a lot of the important parts of the character, and I do like how they used him to affect the mindset of Shalla Bal; and the method in which he discovered her backstory.
- interesting that they did not have Alicia Masters involved with Ben as yet; and I may have misheard, but I thought the red-headed school teacher that expressed an interest in Ben; and which Ben also expressed an interest in was named Frankie Raye <-- someone who in later FF comics became involved with Johnny Stomthe Human Torch; and herself later became a Herald to Galactus. This isn't a ding against the film at all and in fact I think it's great they didn't try to just shoehorn her in because she is also the daughter of the FF villain the Puppet Master, so yeah, if they addressed part of that it would have added another thread that really didn't fit this story.
- Loved that they used Galactus actual origin story background pretty much verbatim from the i#168 ssue of Thor. I loved the take they had on Galactus in this film; although I have to wonder what they did with Galactus ship that was still in orbit above Earth after he was teleported to the other side of the universe?
- I was also impressed with their handling of the Franklin Richards storyline, and they managed to compress a lot of the personal aspects that played out for a few years in the comics between Sue and Reed. It'll be interesting to see if they get to/ ever do the storyline where Reed has to put Franklin in suspended animation; which destroyed Sue emotionally, and led to them being divorced for a ttme; but yeah given their planning to do a full MCU reboot after Avengers Doomsday; they probably won't go there with this version of the FF. But they sure drove the point of Franklin's power level home when he resurrected the dead Susan Richards.
And yeah I did love the fact that the final post credits sequence had Dr Doom with his metal mask off kneeling in front of 4 year old Franklin Richards as Sue walks back to him.
It's very fitting that the first MCU on screen live action appearance of Dr Doom occurs in the first MCU Fantastic Four film.
( and I also love that we are going to see a lot more of the MCUVFantastic Four in both Avengers Doomeday, and Secret Wars.
They did not end with the Fantastic Four from Earth 828 flying into the existing MCU universe as seen in the post credit scene of Thunderbolts; so yeah I assume we'll see the events leading up to that in Avengers Doomsday.
So yeah, loved this film, and looking forward to seeing more with this version of the Fantastic Four.
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I have to say it: What a fantastic film! Perhaps that's a predictable and probably stale response, but that reaction is not any less true. The entire experience was delightful, filled with joy and wonder and humor and adventure. Above all else, the movie felt like Jack Kirby's imagination brought to life (especially during the neutron star sequence!).
The best part of the film was getting the team right, both individually and as a family:
The best part of the film was getting the team right, both individually and as a family:
- Each of them shined in their own way but for me the biggest standout was Sue. I loved how while Reed was officially the team's leader thanks to his scientific achievements, Sue was the real leader of the family with her thoughtful and heartfelt guidance. What especially stood out to me was how no one on the team questioned or even mentioned Sue's pregnancy as a concern when they went on their fateful mission to meet Galactus. This gave her far greater agency than the usual boring schtick of someone raising concerns and Sue shooting them down. By simply not saying anything at all and then demonstrating how fully capable she was in the situation, as a superhero, astronaut, and leader all at once, goes a long way in normalizing pregnant women in action.
- Ben was also a major standout and I loved his rocky beard. While I wish the movie delved a little more into his displeasure about his physical appearance, I nonetheless loved every scene he was in, from being the team's resident grump to razzing Johnny every moment he could to flirting with Rachel (wait, not Alicia...?) to messing around with school kids. Speaking of Rachel, I'm less confused about how she's not Alicia and more surprised by how little screen time Natasha Lyonne had. Granted, I didn't expect her to play a major part in the film but I felt like there are a few scenes of her on the editing floor, which is a shame but not entirely unnecessary. Regardless, I did love their immediate chemistry and I look forward to seeing them together again, but I guess that won't happen for awhile (I cannot foresee her making anything more than a cameo appearance in either Avengers films).
- Johnny was a lot of fun and I loved the connection he made with Shalla-Bal. While the trajectory of their joint story arc was predictable, I liked how the film riffed on the situation, even if Johnny's obsession with the surfboard being separate from her being was a bit weird. I also liked how their connection allowed Johnny to learn Shalla-Bal's language and reach out to her, which would ultimately help shift the scales of the battle against Galactus.
- Lastly, I greatly enjoyed watching Reed struggling with the gravity of each and every situation, but especially as he wrestled with Galactus' horrible offer: Franklin or Earth. I'm glad the film didn't treat the morality of the situation lightly or didn't get swept away by a mob of discontent (much like the public reactions in Superman). Of course Reed would think about the worst possible outcomes in a purely scientific manner, even if in doing so, he would hurt those closest to him. Which is why I loved how the solution to the moral quandary came Sue's heart instead of Reed's brain when she chose to help people relate to her situation. Perhaps that resolution and the sudden global workforce stemming from that moment were a little too easy but it works because this is comic book tale (and if it works for Superman, it can work here).
- And then there's the Franklin in the room. I only know the vaguest of details about his abilities from the comics but my ears still pricked up when Galactus mentioned Franklin had the power cosmic inside him and Galactus wanted him as his successor. I found that a curious turn of events for this particular version of the story. I loved how the film treated Franklin's powers very carefully to the point of demonstrating that they exist beyond the perception of Reed's knowledge, leading him to decide let Franklin present his powers in his own time. But we did get a glimmer of them when Franklin, reacting as any perceptive baby would to the sudden and violent death of their mother, brought her back to life. I can't help but wonder if that revival comes with a cost (I certainly loved how Sue's awakening wasn't an easy moment for her). Given how the mid-credits scene played out, clearly Franklin is going to be a centerpiece of Doomsday and probably Secret Wars, too.
@The Nth Doctor
In Matt Fractions Fantastic Four run and later expanded upon by Mark Waid in his History of the Marvel Universe - Franklin Richards is immortal and he and Galactus are the only two left at the end of the universe, where the two pass the time waiting for end to come by telling stories of the History of the Marvel Universe and the multiverse.
The universe dies and collapses in on itself. Galactus dies and in passing, starts a new Big Bang.
Franklin Richards passes to the new universe and, after several million years of hibernation, emerges from his cocoon as the new Galactus.
In Matt Fractions Fantastic Four run and later expanded upon by Mark Waid in his History of the Marvel Universe - Franklin Richards is immortal and he and Galactus are the only two left at the end of the universe, where the two pass the time waiting for end to come by telling stories of the History of the Marvel Universe and the multiverse.
The universe dies and collapses in on itself. Galactus dies and in passing, starts a new Big Bang.
Franklin Richards passes to the new universe and, after several million years of hibernation, emerges from his cocoon as the new Galactus.
This isn't time travel.
Their world may look like 1968, but it's still 2025. 2030?
As long as they also had the same Romans inventing the same calendar at exactly the same time as 616, and there was a virgin birth at exactly the year zero, then everything is co-happening at the same time.
Personally, when talking dimensional travel - yeah, it could cause some time slippage.
I just saw the movie and it is the best Superhero movie so far this year for me. Vanessa Kirby was the best actor in the movie for me. I love the 1960s retrofuturism look of the movie. It reminded me of the 2014 miniseries Ascension which i also loved.
Folks should go and watch the movie.
Folks should go and watch the movie.
Now admitly, I had a heavy session the night before and was still drunk when i saw this but I am sure we see references on screen and physical media to various 1960s dates.
My cinema buddy and I talked about this and agreed....
This could be Earth 828's Sixties but the dimensional traveling COULD imply time travel as well.
I doubt it. From Feige's recent comments it sounds like the whole MCU will be soft rebooted, Tony Stark recast and all. Rumors are that after all this multiverse stuff ends it will all get merged into one.
All of the real world product placement was certainly very specifically '60s accurate. The first promotional image released for the movie had a magazine cover with Lyndon Johnson on the cover and the official prequel comic book had the team meeting with JFK and Jackie.
Movie is good. It hits great a few times, but for the most part it's good. What I liked most about it is that it's finally a MCU movie that feels different. It's set in another universe and actually does feel self-contained. The retro future look does a lot to help differentiate it, but I think what sets it apart the most is the warmth and lack of cynicism. The scene where Sue talks the world out of being angry with them and everyone agrees to help save Franklin wouldn't work in real life, of course, and wouldn't even work in a regular MCU movie, but I like that it works here. They're proper heroes who are loved on their world and have actually made it a better place. It's nice!
Casting is very good, the team are all believable as a family and as people who have known each other for years prior to the movie. There's no meanness between them, just kind of sweet family interactions. Vanessa Kirby probably gets the most chances to impess (her "Johnny, kill her" line and her cry when she's saving Franklin at the end stick out) but Joseph Quinn as Johnny really surprised me in the end by how well the character turned out. Julia Garner is excellent as Shalla Bal with the compassionate way she deliverse world-ending news. I don't know how much she was on set but it certainly looks like her face through the CGI and she makes some good sad silver faces.
Where it reaches greatness is the part in the middle where they go into space, meet Galactus for the first time, are chased by the Surfer and ending with Sue giving birth. This is all looks amazing, I can't even think of another sequence in the MCU that looks this good. The image of the Surfer trapped in the black hole or whatever in particular really stood out and all the stuff with the Surfer surfing on weird space things...just great stuff. Giancchno's score really delivered here too.
Unfortunately, the movie never really htis that level again. The final showdown with Galactus is good but it's not a patch on his first appearance. There's also just this feeling you get with a lot of these movies that they've cut a bunch out, that there was a mandate to get it under two hours or somthing. Like, what was with Natasha Lyonne's charcter? There's no pay-off at all. Mole Man is GREAT...for the two mintues he's on screen. We get a lot more name drops of cool sounding vllains and of course I know they cut John Malkovich as Red Ghost from the movie not long before release. I really think the first half of the movie would have been improved by more of these characters appearing. An extended sequence of them fighting Mole Man, rather than it all being in the opening montage, would have been a great way to introduce the team and their powers and enhance Mole Man's later important appearance. Galactus felt like he needed a bit more screentime too.
I liked that Johnny was smart and his scene with Shalla in Times Square is very strong, but it unfortunately makes Reed look dumb by comparison as his "swap the baby carriages!" plot is ridiculous.
Mid credit scene was weak as Doom didn't look intimidating at all. I wonder if they haven't even figured out what he's going to look like in his next moviet yet. They could have at least had RDJ utter one line or something.
But yeah overall this is good and the visuals in the space sequence are so good that it's one I'd recommend seeing in the cinema rather than waiting for Disney+.
EDIT: Why is B+ listed as lower than B in the poll? Confusing!
Casting is very good, the team are all believable as a family and as people who have known each other for years prior to the movie. There's no meanness between them, just kind of sweet family interactions. Vanessa Kirby probably gets the most chances to impess (her "Johnny, kill her" line and her cry when she's saving Franklin at the end stick out) but Joseph Quinn as Johnny really surprised me in the end by how well the character turned out. Julia Garner is excellent as Shalla Bal with the compassionate way she deliverse world-ending news. I don't know how much she was on set but it certainly looks like her face through the CGI and she makes some good sad silver faces.
Where it reaches greatness is the part in the middle where they go into space, meet Galactus for the first time, are chased by the Surfer and ending with Sue giving birth. This is all looks amazing, I can't even think of another sequence in the MCU that looks this good. The image of the Surfer trapped in the black hole or whatever in particular really stood out and all the stuff with the Surfer surfing on weird space things...just great stuff. Giancchno's score really delivered here too.
Unfortunately, the movie never really htis that level again. The final showdown with Galactus is good but it's not a patch on his first appearance. There's also just this feeling you get with a lot of these movies that they've cut a bunch out, that there was a mandate to get it under two hours or somthing. Like, what was with Natasha Lyonne's charcter? There's no pay-off at all. Mole Man is GREAT...for the two mintues he's on screen. We get a lot more name drops of cool sounding vllains and of course I know they cut John Malkovich as Red Ghost from the movie not long before release. I really think the first half of the movie would have been improved by more of these characters appearing. An extended sequence of them fighting Mole Man, rather than it all being in the opening montage, would have been a great way to introduce the team and their powers and enhance Mole Man's later important appearance. Galactus felt like he needed a bit more screentime too.
I liked that Johnny was smart and his scene with Shalla in Times Square is very strong, but it unfortunately makes Reed look dumb by comparison as his "swap the baby carriages!" plot is ridiculous.
Mid credit scene was weak as Doom didn't look intimidating at all. I wonder if they haven't even figured out what he's going to look like in his next moviet yet. They could have at least had RDJ utter one line or something.
But yeah overall this is good and the visuals in the space sequence are so good that it's one I'd recommend seeing in the cinema rather than waiting for Disney+.
EDIT: Why is B+ listed as lower than B in the poll? Confusing!
Very enjoyable. The characterisation was strong and subtle with tons of little nods that comic fans would recognise. It was a very balanced movie with no one character outshining another, fairly conservative use of powers to allow us to focus on character, and I loved the name-dropping of the cheesy 60s villains. I would have laughed hard if Agatha Harkness had showed up to babysit, as well.
Definitely a good springboard for Doomsday.
Definitely a good springboard for Doomsday.
