Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would hope Disney does not add confusion to an already muddled mess of timelines/continuity by making What if? more than its original comic intent: a way to explore long-held writer and fan theories or desires with no bearing on the main continuity.
     
  2. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Adam West's Batman mentioned his tragic past how many times? Like once as a throwaway line?
     
  3. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    Here's the thing: Time travel is fiction, it does not exist. At least let's say "according to the Vulcan Science Directorate." I'm not being silly with that quote.

    Our current understanding of science does not allow for time travel any more than it allows for photon torpedoes that make a loud bang when they explode in a vacuum.

    You are just making this up, and trying to relate your musings to a quantum science that is still in its infancy. It doesn't matter how many times you have been over it, this is a work of fiction with fictitious science and fictitious metaphysics. Time travel works in whatever way the writers need it to. The important thing is what the characters go through in the process. Steve Rogers' journey was a fitting end to his story, and exactly how it happened is a mystery for good reason: the focus should be on the character.
     
  4. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Shameless science plug:


     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh poo poo.

    We assume self-consistency.

    We don't always get it, but it's something to aspire to.

    That if they tell us that Lex Luthor's eyes are Blue, that there is a very good reason if they are suddenly green.

    (There was a very good reason.)
     
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  6. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Your assumptions aren't consistent with the movie.
     
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  7. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    I'll put real money on the fact that it will be the same way in the comics. Person turns left instead of right and creates an alternate reality. It's that simple. No time travel or Infinity Stones necessary.
     
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  8. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    If the Multiverse needs an entire bureaucracy to keep track of alternate realities, then I'm assuming that it takes a lot less than an infinity stone being removed to create an alternate reality, because how often does THAT happen?

     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  9. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Looks like we might be getting a fuller explanation of how the timeline splitting works in the Loki series, based on a scene in the new trailer.
     
  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Didn’t the Endgame writers say they consulted with scientists when figuring out their time travel? Theirs is based off theoretical physics or some shit
     
  11. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    So, back to Zemo. Is kinda similar to Lex, in that he wants to stop people from worshipping superhumans/heros, Lex usually hates Superman because he doesn't want Humanity to be reliant on a superpowered being and become weak.
     
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  13. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    I've been thinking of Thanos today. And his obsession with hunger and lack of food and resources being a big motivator for his deeds. And now, the Flag Smashers, hugely concerned with food supplies. There's a theme here.
     
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  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    I thought Thanos’ logic was more the “Knock over the anthill, build up a better one” thing. Shadows/Reapers logic.

    The writers can make up any time travel rules they want but making them internally consistent is just part of good writing. So far they’ve been pretty consistent with the “You can change the past but it will just create a new universe” approach.
     
  15. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They haven't been consistent with that at all. That blatantly contradicts one of the pivotal plot points of the movie.

    Seriously, everyone has their preferred interpretation and that's fine. Nobody needs to be converted. But it's pretty frustrating when people insist on holding up their interpretation as 'obviously' true while consistently ignoring the fact that important parts of the story directly refute it.
     
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  16. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Everything in the movie is consistent until Old Steve shows up, without using the pad. I will admit I really want that to be "our" Steve who got to go back to be with "our" Peggy. That makes the most narrative sense. So I really want to find a logical way to make that happen within the rules as presented, hence the need for the stones to split the timeline. I fully expect to get a final definitive explanation in the Loki series.
     
  17. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm sorry, but no it isn't. I love the movie for a whole host of reasons, but on this point it's just wildly inconsistent. It sets the tone with technobabble from Tony that is never really defined and a million choruses of 'You can't change the past' from Bruce, all without ever even trying to state outright whether they're actually talking about traveling to your past or traveling to an alternate universe. The dialogue is all so broad that it can mean anything, so sure you can call that consistent with whatever follows it regardless.

    But if you interpret that dialogue as meaning you can travel to your past but can not change it, then it is blatantly contradicted by the myriad of issues the time heist already caused *before* any infinity stones were removed from the timeline.

    And if you interpret it as meaning that time travel always creates an alternate universe or that it is nothing more than traveling to other alternate universes that already existed, then it is blatantly contradicted by the entire Bruce/Ancient One/Trim the Branches plot.

    There is no 'right' interpretation here. Every interpretation contradicts the movie in some way, regardless of whether someone likes their interpretation because it's consistent with Quantum Physics or consistent with Marvel Comics or consistent with Steve's character development, it's still *always* inconsistent with some major part of the film itself.
     
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  18. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Which part, the time Loki escaped or the changes to past Thanos? Didn’t those just create alternate timelines?

    The inconsistencies you reference are explainable, it’s kind of nitpicky to poke those holes just because the story didn’t lay it out explicitly. Every verbal explanation we got has pointed to new timelines.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  19. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    For me, not using the Pad just meant he got back to the future the old fashioned way.
     
  20. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    He says he even needed the pad? I imagine him, in his new home reality, going up to his friend Howard and a young Hank Pym and telling them that they don't even begin to realize the potential of the Pym particle. They create a time machine in the reality that Steve now calls home. He uses that machine to travel to the bench in his home reality, his time travel suit disappears to wherever the Avengers time travel suits disappear to when they use them, he give Sam the shield and returns to the dimension he now calls home.
     
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