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Actually, I think magnetic boots are featured in the novels too. People seem to switch between using them or just floating around.

The book, which is not restricted by filming in gravity, explicitly says that they use magnetic boots when exploring the Scopuli. And it makes sense to me as well. They are investigating a damaged ship that could be dangerous. Using magnetic boots allows you to anchor yourself without needing to grap hold of something, leaving your hands free to do other stuff, like aim a weapon.

If you need to anchor yourself by your feet, there are going to be plenty of straps and handles and crevices that you can hook your toes into as well as your hands.

They are investigating an unfamiliar, damaged ship. Who knows what sort of hand holds there will be. The ship is also in vacuum with a giant hole in the side. How do you prevent yourself from accidentally being launched out into space? You hold onto something, and using magnetic boots allows you to hold on and keeps your hands free for other uses. It's a safety system as much as anything, like how someone working on a scaffold has to be tied off.

I've seen SF that portrayed microgravity-dwelling populations that went barefoot and had nearly prehensile toes, thanks to a lifetime of using them to grasp things, if not due to genetic engineering. In free fall, feet don't need to be weight-bearing platforms, so they're free to become dextrous gripping tools in their own right.

This is just stupid. The humans in The Expanse are not genetically engineered to have monkey feet. They are also in vacuum so going barefoot is impossible. But you also help prove my point. Magnetic boots make your feet more useful.

Not to mention that in free fall, you don't necessarily need to anchor yourself. Once you've come to a stop, you'll just stay there. At most, you'll rotate around your center of mass, but with practice you can control your body orientation through subtle corrections.

As I already said, they are investigating a likely dangerous situation. They are in a situation where they may need to anchor themselves. Do you want to be rotating in a circle when someone is shooting at you? Do you want to be drifting down a corridor, unable to alter your speed or direction until you hit another surface while they shoot at you? Do you want your gun to send you flying backwards when you shoot it?

Everything else you wrote is irrelevant. They aren't on NASA spacecraft, NASA no longer exist. They are 200 years in the future.
 
They are investigating an unfamiliar, damaged ship. Who knows what sort of hand holds there will be.

It's not an alien ship. This is a society that's been living and operating in microgravity environments for at least 200 years. It's a given that every spaceship has plenty of handholds, just as much as it's a given that any building you go into is going to have doorknobs. This would be a routine expectation about any human-made spacecraft.


The ship is also in vacuum with a giant hole in the side. How do you prevent yourself from accidentally being launched out into space?
Seriously? You just said, it's in vacuum. The air was already sucked out, so there isn't going to be anything pulling on them. All you have to do is not be so stupid as to point yourself toward the big hole when you push off. Anyone who'd spent their lives maneuvering in microgravity would know how to avoid the breach the same way you know how to avoid walking off a cliff. You just aim away from it.

And if they did need additional control over their attitude, a thruster suit of some sort would be infinitely more practical than magnetic boots.


It's a safety system as much as anything, like how someone working on a scaffold has to be tied off.
Except that people on scaffolds have to worry about falling. In space, you and the ship around you are free-falling at the same rate already.


This is just stupid.
You've just officially surrendered the argument. Once you sink to insults, you're admitting that you can't win on the merits of your case. Normally I abandon the debate when the other side proves they're not even interested in listening, but I will refute your points for the benefit of any other readers of this thread who might actually have open minds.


The humans in The Expanse are not genetically engineered to have monkey feet.
They don't have to be. There are plenty of people in the world already -- from contortionists to amputees -- who can use their feet and toes almost as dextrously as their hands. Most of us don't have this ability because we don't need it; we hardly use our toes, so their muscles atrophy and they have no flexibility. The same thing would happen to your fingers if you encased them in leather every day and never used them. People living in free fall would be free to use both their hands and feet to grasp things, so it stands to reason that most people's toes would become more dextrous and fingerlike, not just those few people today who lack usable hands or who develop their pedal dexterity as acrobats or the like.


They are also in vacuum so going barefoot is impossible.
Obviously I'm referring to the skills spacers would develop in their everyday lives, living routinely in microgravity. And spacesuits can have flexible gloves; there's no reason the foot coverings couldn't be something similar.


But you also help prove my point. Magnetic boots make your feet more useful.
No, they don't. Anyone's feet are already perfectly useful for hooking under handles or the like, and could more easily release from such things than magnetic boots could.



As I already said, they are investigating a likely dangerous situation. They are in a situation where they may need to anchor themselves.
If you're in a dangerous situation, isn't it actually more desirable to be able to move freely than to be stuck in one place?

Do you want to be rotating in a circle when someone is shooting at you?
Anyone trained to move in microgravity would never be so out of control, and any spaceship would be designed to ensure that handholds and footholds were always in easy reach. The situation you posit would never arise unless the person involved were completely untrained, in which case they probably wouldn't be cleared to wear a spacesuit in the first place, let alone permitted to investigate a potentially dangerous situation. We're talking about the crew of a spaceship here, so of course they have years of practice at freefall maneuvering, and would no more be helplessly spinning in place than an Olympic swimmer would be helplessly flailing in the water.


Do you want to be drifting down a corridor, unable to alter your speed or direction until you hit another surface while they shoot at you?
At least then you'd be a moving target, and you could move fast once you pushed yourself off, rather than dragging yourself cumbersomely forward at a fraction of normal walking speed.


Do you want your gun to send you flying backwards when you shoot it?
A bullet has a mass of, oh, maybe 9-10 grams, while an adult person in a spacesuit might mass 90-100 kilograms. That means the shooter would be accelerated 1/10,000th as much as the bullet -- hardly "flying backwards." And again, if you weren't in an environment where you could be sure of accessible hand and footholds (say, a cavern in an asteroid, maybe), then you probably would be using some kind of maneuvering thruster unit, which gives you far more versatility than slogging along with your feet stuck to the walls.


Everything else you wrote is irrelevant. They aren't on NASA spacecraft, NASA no longer exist. They are 200 years in the future.
The laws of physics don't change. It will always be preferable to build spaceships out of lighter materials. Magnetic fields will always interfere with electronics and radio signals. People trained to maneuver in free fall will always be able to move much more efficiently and swiftly with hand and footholds than with their feet stuck to some arbitrary surface. The reason NASA abandoned the research wasn't because they were NASA, it was because magnetic boots are intrinsically an impractical idea.
 
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IndyMac, don't bother replying to Christopher. He's probably got you on ignore by this point. it's his usual modus operandi. He's got half the forum on ignore by now.
 
It's probably me but, I found the characters and setting hard to get into. And I didn't like how small the opening cast credits were. It looks good and I liked the zero G sex scene. But it was hard for me to get handle on things, but I was pretty tired and it was hard to focus on the show.
 
I haven't watched the first episode so I can't speak to their depiction but the description of their operation in the books suggest that they are electromagnetic boots. Off, on and adjustable in strength. :p
 
I haven't watched the first episode so I can't speak to their depiction but the description of their operation in the books suggest that they are electromagnetic boots. Off, on and adjustable in strength. :p

Which still wouldn't work on aluminum walls, and still would be a terribly, terribly restrictive way of moving around compared to the way astronauts actually do it. Look at footage of the folks up on the ISS sometime. Freefall is liberating. Swimming is an imperfect analogy, but it's similarly three-dimensional. Would a skilled swimmer be satisfied to crawl along one wall of the pool a step at a time, pretending to be walking? There is absolutely no realistic advantage to that. The only advantage is to filmmakers who have to deal with the reality of filming under gravity -- or, maybe, to prose writers (or animators -- cf. Cowboy Bebop) who want to give a sense of familiarity to the way characters move and interact. It's a storytelling device, a necessary break from reality, like universal translators or humanoid aliens.
 
I haven't watched the first episode so I can't speak to their depiction but the description of their operation in the books suggest that they are electromagnetic boots. Off, on and adjustable in strength. :p

Which still wouldn't work on aluminum walls,
an assumption on your part not born out in the show or books.
and still would be a terribly, terribly restrictive way of moving around compared to the way astronauts actually do it.
Sorry, but this is not a binary choice. It's not. There would be times when maintaining your orientation makes sense. You know, like how the astronauts on the space shuttle would stand attached to the arm when working on the HST.
Swimming is an imperfect analogy, but it's similarly three-dimensional. Would a skilled swimmer be satisfied to crawl along one wall of the pool a step at a time, pretending to be walking?
you mean, like when Navy and salvage divers use weights to stay on the ocean floor when working?
 
I haven't watched the first episode so I can't speak to their depiction but the description of their operation in the books suggest that they are electromagnetic boots. Off, on and adjustable in strength. :p

Which still wouldn't work on aluminum walls,
an assumption on your part not born out in the show or books.

Uhh, no, it's something I looked up. As I said, one of the reasons NASA abandoned research on magnetic boots is because spaceships preferentially use more lightweight materials like aluminum than heavier ferromagnetic materials (for reasons which should be obvious, I hope).

Again, this is not hypothetical. People are actually living in space right now. Very smart people have been studying the best ways to move in microgravity for over half a century, and lots of people have spent cumulative years actually doing it. If magnetic boots were actually a good idea, then they would use them on the shuttle and the ISS. But they don't. In real, actual, present-day life, they do not use magnetic boots in space, because magnetic boots only make sense in fiction, not reality.


Sorry, but this is not a binary choice. It's not. There would be times when maintaining your orientation makes sense. You know, like how the astronauts on the space shuttle would stand attached to the arm when working on the HST.
Which, as I said, is why there are other, better ways of doing that, like straps and thruster suits. I'm not saying it never makes sense to maintain orientation, I'm saying that magnetic boots are a crappy way of doing that. Which is why astronauts don't use them in real life.
 
Yeah, the cast includes an Anglo-Dominician, an Iranian-Canadian, an Iranian-American, an African-American and French-Thai as well as three white guys.

The actors are all from Earth, obviously. :lol:

I'm not sure if you've read the book, Christopher, so you may be missing the point. It's been pointed out it's a diverse cast anyway - and most of the ethnicities match those from the book--but a large part of the book was the notion that 'old' prejudices have disappeared in favor of all new ones.

All I know is, most of the dominant characters seemed to be white -- both the cops on Ceres, their captain, most of the speaking roles among the Cerean populace, almost the entire crew of the Canterbury besides the English-accented black woman. There were a couple of actors who seemed ethnically ambiguous, but I couldn't be sure.

Havelock, the non-Miller cop on Ceres, is played by Jay Hernandez--so I'm not sure what you were seeing.
 
Which still wouldn't work on aluminum walls,
an assumption on your part not born out in the show or books.

Uhh, no, it's something I looked up. As I said, one of the reasons NASA abandoned research on magnetic boots is because spaceships preferentially use more lightweight materials like aluminum than heavier ferromagnetic materials (for reasons which should be obvious, I hope).

Again, this is not hypothetical. People are actually living in space right now. Very smart people have been studying the best ways to move in microgravity for over half a century, and lots of people have spent cumulative years actually doing it. If magnetic boots were actually a good idea, then they would use them on the shuttle and the ISS. But they don't. In real, actual, present-day life, they do not use magnetic boots in space, because magnetic boots only make sense in fiction, not reality.

Well it's a damn good thing The Expanse is a documentary and not fiction.

Someone please quote me so Christopher will see this.
 
The actors are all from Earth, obviously. :lol:

I'm not sure if you've read the book, Christopher, so you may be missing the point. It's been pointed out it's a diverse cast anyway - and most of the ethnicities match those from the book--but a large part of the book was the notion that 'old' prejudices have disappeared in favor of all new ones.

All I know is, most of the dominant characters seemed to be white -- both the cops on Ceres, their captain, most of the speaking roles among the Cerean populace, almost the entire crew of the Canterbury besides the English-accented black woman. There were a couple of actors who seemed ethnically ambiguous, but I couldn't be sure.

Havelock, the non-Miller cop on Ceres, is played by Jay Hernandez--so I'm not sure what you were seeing.
Yep.

The people I mentioned play leads or secondary characters. Not one offs who won't be seen again.
 
I'd like to thank Christopher for his scathing multi-part critique on the impracticality of magnetic boots. I was on the fence about buying them, but his longwinded rants convinced me that it just wasn't realistic. I was also interested in learning about how people felt about this new show The Expanse, but really, this magnetic boots exposé is much more entertaining to read.
 
I loved the size of the Donnager against the Knight - given that the Donny's hangar deck looked about the size of the Canterbury, it must be absolutely HUGE which is what the books describe.

That said, am sure in the books they were on the Knight for several days and not just a handful of hours.
 
Any idea about the population of Mars in the books. If they can be an independent planet and be in a cold war with Earth, they must number in the millions at least.
 
Which still wouldn't work on aluminum walls,
an assumption on your part not born out in the show or books.

Uhh, no, (snipped: a pedantic display of NASA stuff I already knew**)
you misunderstood; you are assuming the walls are aluminum; that is not what is depicted in the books. Many of the ships in the books are built in space from materials primarily found in the Belt. Carbon (in its many compounds) is the most abundant material. The predominant metals are iron and nickel. Aluminum isn't even a rounding error.

Having said that, based on the first episode, the show is using the boots way more than the books.

**(TBH, your scree about what NASA is doing now would be the same as an 18th century shipwright saying "Smart people having been building ships for thousands of years; trust me, ships will always be wood." :lol: Things change, technology adapts, and colonists tend to build from the local materials.)
 
Any idea about the population of Mars in the books. If they can be an independent planet and be in a cold war with Earth, they must number in the millions at least.

Anywhere from 50-100 million people live in the Belt - I imagine Mars is far, far more.
 
Well it's a damn good thing The Expanse is a documentary and not fiction.

Someone please quote me so Christopher will see this.

I stopped reading his post after he argued that in 200 years everyone would have prehensile feet, contortionist flexibility, and Olympic athlete level fine muscle control.
 
Any idea about the population of Mars in the books. If they can be an independent planet and be in a cold war with Earth, they must number in the millions at least.

The numbers I remember from the books are:

Earth - 31 Billion
Mars - 4 Billion
Belt and Outer Planets - ~100 Million
Ceres - 7 Million
 
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