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The Eugenics Wars: Earth's Last World war

37 million souls lost even in a "regional" conflict as you suggest would be pretty newsworthy in 1996 by any standards.
I agree, but that doesn't mean America took part in the conflict.

It is by virtue of this fact alone, that I am unwilling to relegate the EW to Phase I of some nuclear holocaust which ultimately resulted in over a half-billion souls lost.
I don't believe the eugenic war was a phase one of the third world war. The two were not connected in any way, completely separate.

A protracted nuclear conflict would be the supreme failure of humanity
In order to kill 600 million, partually immediate and as a result of the after effects, the war would not have to be protracted.

A furious exchange between say India, Pakistan and China over the course of a single hour would do.

:)
1. Some wars are known by different names to different people. World War I, for example, was also called the Great War (not because people thought it was wonderful, but because it was so huge in scope).

2. Why is the prospect of 600 million deaths due to a brief nuclear exchange among India, Pakistan, and China something to smile about? :vulcan:
 
37 million souls lost even in a "regional" conflict as you suggest would be pretty newsworthy in 1996 by any standards.
I agree, but that doesn't mean America took part in the conflict.

I don't believe the eugenic war was a phase one of the third world war. The two were not connected in any way, completely separate.

A protracted nuclear conflict would be the supreme failure of humanity
In order to kill 600 million, partually immediate and as a result of the after effects, the war would not have to be protracted.

A furious exchange between say India, Pakistan and China over the course of a single hour would do.

:)
1. Some wars are known by different names to different people. World War I, for example, was also called the Great War (not because people thought it was wonderful, but because it was so huge in scope).

2. Why is the prospect of 600 million deaths due to a brief nuclear exchange among India, Pakistan, and China something to smile about? :vulcan:

T'Girl signs every post with a smiley. The signature is not a reflection of the content of the post.
 
Personalities Associated with the Eugenics Wars

After the fall of Nazi Germany and the exposition of the atrocities carried out under their direct control, an undisclosed number of Nazi-brokered eugenicists, geneticists and social engineering advocates fled direct allied persecution during and after the Nuremberg judicial process and discreetly re-established themselves within the borders of countries once known as the 'third world'. Typically, those individuals who could not be directly implicated for war crimes and atrocities made up the vast number of re-located scientists and specialists.

Firmly entrenched within new surroundings and with a vast new supply of subject material to draw upon, these latter-day eugenicists set about building a network of research centers and compounds within the third world coordinating and correlating a new wave of control subjects to advance their ideals. This renewed effort recognized the inherent limitations of purely-eugenically oriented science while combining decades of experience with the rapidly-emerging science of genetic engineering. By the 1950's and 60's, these scientists had already secured at least 200 control subjects who their mind represented the optimum examples of genetically-selective humanity. By 1972, the original control group (Including Noonien Singh) became the basis for the first human recombinant sequencing experiments. This newly-emergent methodology was championed largely on the part of the efforts of Doctors Goran Heisen and Stavos Keneclius (Although Keneclius himself attempted to distance himself from the collective projects after 1992).

Goran Heisen (1934-1985)- Proponent of eugenics and genetic engineering after 1972.


In 1968 Goran Heisen and Stavos Keniclius met and struck up a tenuous partnership to advance the goals of eugenics and genetic engineering. They devised a set of goals which would permit the testing of live human subjects while skirting international laws forbidding such procedures. An agreement was struck with Heisen fronting the procurement of manpower, resources and equipment for the seven experimental compounds and Keniclius advancing the aims and goals of eugenics via the United Nations and other public-awareness mediums. It is never any mystery however that the two scientists had very different agendas and a point of divergence would be inevitable, but between 1968 and 1992, the detente works amicably for both.

In 1972, Doctor Heisen was able to garner an substantial amount of funding from various international governing bodies and commercial ventures within the third world and elsewhere following the first (albeit secretive) successful genetic engineering experiments conducted on the tissue of the original 200 control subjects. The aims and goals of the scientists were to access guaranteed funding over a twenty-year study period. In return, Heisen and his fellow scientists would supply the funding government or commercial venture with genetically-enhanced 'supermen' to prosecute interests of their own concern. History demonstrates however that the actual aim of Heisen and his associates was to “seed” scores of genetically-enhanced men and women within governmental bodies and other agencies of international concern, gaining the confidence of the “lesser masses” and eventually securing direct authority and guidance of the world itself.

Recognizing their own inherent limitations, Heisen and his associates reasoned that direct intervention in the ascent of humankind was necessary to prevent it's destruction by it's own hand. They envisioned a time when genetically-modified examples of human “perfection” would lead the world into the next stage in it's collective evolution.

Goran Heisen is derived from the IDW comic series Star Trek: Khan. In the story, he is referred to only as "Dr. Heisen". First name provided here is completely subjective. Since it is likely that the character will be referrenced very little in any "official" capacity, the character is as good as any in this case and will be a part of this growing narractive
 
I think the star trek universe must have diverged long ago from ours. The existence of so many "rubber forehead aliens" which most currently do not exist in the real world would point a divergence some point in the early period of that universe's history.
 
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Personalities Associated with the Eugenics Wars - Part 2

Dr. Gottfried Weissnacht

A titulary figure in the advent of the Eugenics Period on Earth. Gottfried Weissnacht was born in 1878. In 1897, Weissnacht attended Heidelberg University and completed his Doctorate studies there in 1911. In 1912, Weissnacht was one of the passengers that endured the sinking of HMS Titanic, and barely escaped with his life. The event would have a lasting effect on his life and his outlook towards the world. Recovering in New York for a brief time, Weissnacht returned to Germany to begin his scientific tenure. In 1933, Weissnacht successfully established the World Peaceways Movement in both Germany and the United States. His intent was to utilize the movement to obtain accurate intelligence reports on US military effectiveness and strength while bolstering the movements rank into a working political party in its own right. All of these efforts were a collective bid to monitor what interest the US had in European affairs as Germany quietly began to mobilize its own military strength in preparation for the first Nazi campaigns that would follow after 1938.

In 1936, World Peaceways had gained sufficient strength in numbers and influence to declare themselves a fourth party alternative to US politics as well as in Germany and surrounding nations. World Peaceways had become a growing pacifist movement which Weissnacht had intended to use to either stall US involvement in European affairs or stop them outright via the "voices of the concerned and compassionate public". By 1938, German firmly under Nazi influence and control had invaded Poland and the drums of war once more droned in the heartland of Europe. All the while, World Peaceways and its subversive branch in the US under the influence of Weissnacht was able to effectively delay US involvement by producing its own strain of propaganda and "grassroots" operations. The counteraction did not last long however when the Imperial Japanese miltary attacked the US naval installation of Pearl Harbor thus thrusting the American military forces into a second theater in the conflict history records as World War II.

By 1940 however, Gottfried Weissnacht became convinced that the Nazi method of propagating Eugenics was flawed and doomed to failure. He also came to the expressed conclusion that seeking ethnic cleansing and racial hygiene as the means of propagating desired traits and genetic influences was futile and unsustainable. By 1940, it was becoming clear to the loudest voices in American eugenics that any direct or indirect affiliation between US eugenic studies and those of Nazi Germany were dangerous and the possibility of subversion and prosecution very real potentialities. His thoughts and theories turned towards gathering the widest possible pool of desirable genetic traits from a vast array of ethnic subjects with the eventual goal of directly influencing the genetic development of control subjects in a laboratory setting. Garnering what support he could from his fellow eugenicists still remaining within the Nazi regime, he appealed for manpower, resources and equipment from German and American interests as well as an undisclosed number of other nations sympathetic to the cause of eugenics to establish a new theater of research and development far beyond the reach of foreseeable opposition.

By 1942, World Peaceways as a movement and political party had been declared a subversive agency by the US state department and Weissnacht himself had been accused of being a Nazi double-agent. He fled the US and was able to secure passage to Brazil, having previously secured manpower, equipment and resources there. In 1943, his lab had begun research and experimentation. By 1944, via the Nazi-affiliated agency ODESSA ("Organization Der Ehemaligen SS-Angehörigen"), many Nazi geneticists, researchers and social engineers had escaped the fall of Germany and Hitler and were quietly added to the burgeoning ranks of eugenicists in Brazil and elsewhere. Aligning themselves with the research and doctrine of Gottfried Weissnacht, they set about generating the first "control subjects"; eugenically-bred individuals and the culmination of nearly a decade of intense - and destructive - research.

By 1949, the numbers of eugenics research facilities and compounds had become far less-centralized and had fallen under the direct authority of a group history only refers to as the Eugenics Secret Society. It was at this time that Gottfried Weissnacht had fully realized that the nature and scope of his work would necessarily grow beyond his direct influence whether he wished it to or not. It was at this time that Eugenics Secret Society (ESS) mandated the withdrawal of all eugenics compounds to the subcontinent of India in the Punjab region, and it was in the Agar Compound that Noonien Singh, later to be known as Khan Noonien Singh, was born. Singh's birth marked the first success of the ESS in producing a eugenically-bred individual and the first of 200 control subjects that would serve literally as the genetic blueprint and path to follow for their agenda. It was during this period that ODESSA had been systematically hunted world-wide by various intelligence agencies including Israel's Mousad.

By 1952, all ODESSA-designated facilities and supportive agencies had been declared dissolved by the ESS, however Gottfried Weissnacht remained defiant of this mandate and attempted to maintain control of his own works into the ongoing eugenics program. This decision would prove to be a fateful one. In 1953, the Israeli Mousad raid and destroyed Gottfried Weissnacht's lab, utterly destroying it along with the doctor himself. Though his death was considered a devastating setback and loss, the ES had also recognized Gottfried Weissnacht's failure to head their authority and understand the need for decentralizing their operations. By 1956, the ESS had headquartered firmly within the confines of Punjab, India with 6 additional compounds established world-wide.

The character of Dr. Gottfried Weissnacht is the creation of Scott A. Akers and was included within the Treknology reference "Spacecraft of the Earth". The historical narrative presented here is conjectural and based on chronological dates associated with Gottfried Weissnacht within the reference,
 
Thanks for the interest all.

I probably should point out here that this project is in no-way exclusively mine and is open to outside interpretation and embellishment. If you have *any* ideas, concepts, personages or the like to contribute to this project, by all means post away.
 
One thing to keep in mind if you continue your thought experiment, enterprise referenced George W Bush and the September 11 attacks, so presumably the events that led up to that and the after math of those attacks still happened in a world where only 5 or so years earlier there had been a massive up rising by "super men" and a war that followed as seen in the Khan comic. Actually now that I think of it that kind of supports the US not being directly involved in the Eugenics wars.
 
the eugenics war ending in 1994 (or was it 1996?) wouldn't preclude the rise of al queda and the events of september 11th.



:)
 
One thing to keep in mind if you continue your thought experiment, enterprise referenced George W Bush and the September 11 attacks, so presumably the events that led up to that and the after math of those attacks still happened in a world where only 5 or so years earlier there had been a massive up rising by "super men" and a war that followed as seen in the Khan comic. Actually now that I think of it that kind of supports the US not being directly involved in the Eugenics wars.

Actually, I am waiting for the Trek Fiction judgment to fall upon this thread at any moment, as I realize what I am suggesting here doesn't necessarily jibe with most of you. I will go out on a limb here though and say that I find it extremely difficult to believe the US would have been excluded from the EW simply to backup onscreen evidences from VOY and ENT. I see no clear way of suggesting that a global war occurs on Earth between 1992-96 (complete with genetically-engineered supermen, artificial gravity, and advanced interplanetary spacecraft. Think about the implications here people) only to be followed-up with the events of September 11, 2001 and a wide-spread global war on terror on a planet that just endured 37 million deaths at the hands of Khan and his ilk. In my mind, suggesting that these events occurred concurrently is pretty absurd. This is why I feel it would have been better if Manny Coto had not referenced the Eugenics Wars at all. In the scenario presented by FC and followed up with in ENT, a 9/11 event makes *perfect* sense in the lead up to a WW3 scenario in 2051-53. Makes little to no sense in support of the former.

But by all means, explain it to me how you think it would be possible.

the eugenics war ending in 1994 (or was it 1996?) wouldn't preclude the rise of al queda and the events of september 11th.

:)

The same question applies to you. Explain to me your reasoning for this statement. Why would an Al Qaeda even be necessary or supportive of this timeline after the death of 37 million souls? The very lands that gave rise to terrorist organizations in our own continuum devastated by the EW and your telling me there would be a logical precedence for them to arise anyway?
 
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For all we know, the WTC towers in that reality were targeted because the US created the supermen and somebody thought they should pay... Especially since they didn't get hurt in the Eugenics Wars themselves.

Timo Saloniemi
 
For all we know, the WTC towers in that reality were targeted because the US created the supermen and somebody thought they should pay... Especially since they didn't get hurt in the Eugenics Wars themselves.

Timo Saloniemi
I like that idea, because all that Enterpise shows us is a image from the real world attacks, no information on the back ground. Perhaps the attacks were still lead by Bin Laden(he was seen in the same part of that episode) but instead of his reasons in the real world in the star trek timeline it was because he believed the US was behind the creation of the "supermen." On a real world level I agree with you, I wish star trek had stopped referencing real world events taking place after 1990. that way it wouldn't require these mental gymnastics. One other thing, are you going to work in cryonics? We know the star trek universe had advanced far into this field by the mid 80's and into the 90s from the TNG episode "the natural zone" and Into darkness.
 
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For all we know, the WTC towers in that reality were targeted because the US created the supermen and somebody thought they should pay... Especially since they didn't get hurt in the Eugenics Wars themselves.

Timo Saloniemi

You assume that the US and the West weren't affected by the EW...

Besides, who's to say that 9/11 even happened in the Star Trek Universe? Also, I can easily see a situation where the US would have a more aggressive foreign policy that would make the Bush Doctrine (i.e. "preemptive") pale in comparison. You could have Bush, Sr defeat Clinton in 1992, and then someone like Dole or McCain winning in 1996, followed by a possible Powell Presidency (thus having "Seaquest SVC" be for real). Certainly, someone like Obama would never be PoTUS, all thanks to Eugenics War. That wouldn't mean a Democrat would not be elected, but rather the politicians would be more hawkish, something that I don't see Liberal Democrats being capable of being (as I see them now). But, that's my theory.

Also, there could easily be a scenario where others filled the vacuum left by the defeat of the Augments. Not only would you have more right-wing leaders springing up, but you could easily have Islamists taking the stance that EW is the fault of the West. However, if the West is more hawkish, I still think that 9/11 wouldn't happen, due to increased nativistic and security-minded electorate. You could easily set the stage for a new divide, that could lead to World War III, as depicted in "First Contact".

JMO.
 
You assume that the US and the West weren't affected by the EW...

More specifically, I'm assuming the West of the US wasn't affected (much) - because we saw it intact within a year of Khan's departure, in VOY "Future's End".

Doesn't mean the US wouldn't have been a combatant, on whichever side; we wouldn't have seen many signs of WWII in San Francisco in late 1945, so we shouldn't expect to see much there in 1996 even if US troops had been heavily involved in the Eugenics Wars.

Besides, who's to say that 9/11 even happened in the Star Trek Universe?

All we know is that in one timestream of that universe, the WTC towers were burning:

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb.../en/images/7/70/World_Trade_Center_attack.jpg

I still think that 9/11 wouldn't happen, due to increased nativistic and security-minded electorate.

Why would those stop attacks of that sort from happening? The motivation for such strikes would be higher than ever, and the means certainly would still exist - "security holes" like that generally cannot be patched until after somebody has exploited them. Say, even Israel didn't really start arming the personnel of El Al jets until well after a chain of hijackings, or providing them with IR countermeasures until after a few semi-successful attempts at using shoulder SAMs against airliners/freighters...

Timo Saloniemi
 
You assume that the US and the West weren't affected by the EW...
More specifically, I'm assuming the West of the US wasn't affected (much) - because we saw it intact within a year of Khan's departure, in VOY "Future's End".

Doesn't mean the US wouldn't have been a combatant, on whichever side; we wouldn't have seen many signs of WWII in San Francisco in late 1945, so we shouldn't expect to see much there in 1996 even if US troops had been heavily involved in the Eugenics Wars.

Besides, who's to say that 9/11 even happened in the Star Trek Universe?
All we know is that in one timestream of that universe, the WTC towers were burning:

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb.../en/images/7/70/World_Trade_Center_attack.jpg

I still think that 9/11 wouldn't happen, due to increased nativistic and security-minded electorate.
Why would those stop attacks of that sort from happening? The motivation for such strikes would be higher than ever, and the means certainly would still exist - "security holes" like that generally cannot be patched until after somebody has exploited them. Say, even Israel didn't really start arming the personnel of El Al jets until well after a chain of hijackings, or providing them with IR countermeasures until after a few semi-successful attempts at using shoulder SAMs against airliners/freighters...

Timo Saloniemi

Perhaps. I would think that the downsizing of the American military and intelligence apparatus wouldn't have occurred in light of the EW. Then again, the first attack on the WTC in 1993 didn't change the American government's planned downsizing anyway.
 
At this juncture, I feel a need to re-iterate some statements made prior to this point in the thread. We will approach this subject based on:

Conditions for Discussion;

A: Star Trek exists in an alternate continuum which diverged from our own around 1968 at the very latest and possibly as early as 1930.

B: No effort will be made to make the original source materials (TOS/TAS/TWOK in order of priority) conform or otherwise support the contentions of materials produced during and after 1987. The arguments for or against this decision have been well-documented in other threads and discussions. "First In, Last Out" rules apply here.

Further reinforced with this provision;

1968

(Point of Departure between times and events in our timeline and Star Trek. From this point on, all data and events presented here are the subject of an alternate timeline and are not open to interpretation against events which may transpire in our own continuum).

The McKinley Rocket Base Incident- USS Enterprise (NCC-1701), conducting historical research by order of the United Federation of Planets Star Fleet, intercepts an interstellar transport conducting Agent 147 “Gary Seven” to Earth. His original task was to sabotage the launch of a suborbital nuclear weapons platform by the United States of America in of itself a response to other nations having already launched similar platforms. At this time, the substantiating logic behind such launches was to maintain the balance of power and mutually-assured destruction in the event of a nuclear weapons exchange by any number of nations. Inadvertently, the Enterprise officers involved delayed Seven's operations as they were hesitant to commit to his assurances on the vital success of this operation. The device is launched and falls to Earth a short time later, but Enterprise officers had prevented Seven from completing the disarming process and the vehicle proceeded to landfall “hot” and armed. At a altitude of 104 miles, the vehicles was successfully detonated, and in the process gained the immediate attention of the entire globe. This incident galvanizes global concerns about the direction of the 'space race' of the time; whether humanity was racing to space for the benefit of all, or for the sake of ensuring hastened destruction in a nuclear exchange.

(Assignment Earth (TOS))

Ladies and gentlemen, I have nothing but the greatest respect for all opinions, viewpoints and commentary expressed here thus far, but I feel I must re-iterate the above talking points to make a few things clear. I have every respect for Star Trek in all of its various incarnations and instances, but my conditions for this thread are quite clear. I am seeking an open-source discussion on the Eugenics Wars and the twentieth-century in general from the perspective of the conditions stated above. I am composing a historical narrative of a fictional event which clearly did not occur in our own continuum nor is likely to occur in any near-future, and I have chosen to narrow the scope of relevant sources to the items listed above. I would implore you all at this point to re-consider those items and curb the need, want or desire to digress the purpose of this thread into never-ending arguments about what is canon and what is not. An endless array of topics have been forwarded in this forum and more often then not, the very same quibbles over canon bog down and stifle any discourse on the subject (and terms for discussing them). With all due respect, this forum is widely known elsewhere for its worrisome arguments over canon, and quite honestly, none of us have time to waste on the semantics of that anymore. If you can work with me here in adhering to my terms stated above, I would appreciate it. Thank you all.

That being said, let us return to the subject at hand.

If we are to consider the means by which Khan and his brethren were exiled from Earth, it is necessary to consider how he was able to achieve it. In 1996, Khan and 96 of his eugenically-bred and genetically altered brethren chose the exile of the deep black aboard the most-advanced spacecraft of his day: the Douglas-Yakovlev DY-100 (Savannah Class) Botany Bay. The vessel was equipped with the most advanced avionics, on-board artificial intelligence (In actuality, the first of its kind to be utilized aboard Human spacecraft), power generation and storage systems. It was also equipped with 100 advanced cryonic stasis cells (which were believed to be necessary for any cost-effective space explorations beyond the orbit of Mars). Virtually nothing is known about the intended course for the vessel (though the on-board memory banks did appear to have been tampered with or outright sabotaged) but whatever it may have been, the vessel was found adrift in the Mutara by USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) in the 2260s.

The following is a work in progress on the very agencies which made the exile and flight from Sol possible.

United Earth Space Probe Agency

The events surrounding Terran year nineteen-hundred and sixty-eight were somber indeed. Before the terrified senses of the world, an aborted orbital insertion of a United States nuclear weapons platform and subsequent explosion and debris dispersal gripped a world already braced for the prospect of nuclear war. The platform delivery vehicle exploded 104 miles in the upper atmosphere with debris of varying dimensions raining down upon Earth in undisclosed regions of the planet. Following a short briefing on the matter, representatives of the United States military were unable to disclose how the vehicle was aborted or by whom. The resulting shock of this near-miss was palpable and there were many eyes to bear witness. Something had to be done.

On 22 December 1968, an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council was convened to "calmly and collectively discuss the matter at hand." The overlying mood of the Council was fairly heated from the moment opening statements began however. The intent of the outcome seemingly clear: The UN Security Council would vote on a measure to censure the US, USSR and China for willfully breaking the terms of the Nuclear Test Ban treaty of 1962 and the Outer Space Initiative conducted just one year earlier and signed in good faith. Also in question would be the effectiveness of the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs which was all but hamstrung with a lack of means to conduct oversight of all orbital and outer space operations undertaken by member nations. The growing threat of nuclear annihilation framed it all. It was now clear that a united national front had to speak in the cause of eliminating the proliferation of nuclear weapons for the future of humankind. The expected accusations from all sides were vividly lobbied, as the United States accused the USSR of being the first to extend the threat of annihilation into space, with China entering the fray as "the only option available in an increasingly-impulsive global environment." The usual claims of the "sovereignty of nations" was also heard and in abundance from those nations who had yet to stake a claim in the nuclear race and from those nations who were forced to choose a side in what seemed to be an inevitable race of doom. The day of 22 December 1968 would be remembered as the most verbally-heated day of debate the collective world had seen yet.

At the end of the day, no censorship was authorized for the culpable nations, however the expansion of oversight powers into the interests of global space exploration and the applications associated with it would be mandated. Security Council resolutions called for a restructuring of the UN Office for Outer Space Affairs. Resolutions called for the establishment of the United Earth Space Probe Agency. The very name of this new agency promoted a renewed prospect of hope for a unified planet Earth and the promise of exploring outer space. UESPA would incorporate within its committee a liaison from each nation's space agency. Where no such national space agency existed, UESPA would establish Resource and Information Office branches freely accessible to all governing officials and citizens alike. The UESPA resolution also called for the access of national outer space affairs to be opened to commercial interests. It was hoped that adding this new sector of interest in orbital operations and beyond would increase accountability and transparency within the international community and ultimately unify the push into space beyond Earth's orbit.

As the nation of India was not a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council due to its independence from Great Britain not being achieved until 15 August 1947, the resolutions and mandates agreed upon this day could not be considered "non-binding but inevitably relevant" to its national interests present and future. As India was considered a natural gateway to virtually one-quarter of Earth, the lack of pressure on this rapidly-growing nation would come to haunt the United Nations after 1992 and the beginning of the last world war on Earth.
 
the eugenics war ending in 1994 (or was it 1996?) wouldn't preclude the rise of al queda and the events of september 11th
Explain to me your reasoning for this statement.
Al Qaeda came into existence between late 1988 and late 1989, it's creation was triggered by the Russian invasion of Afghanstan, this was years prior to the "Supermen's" rise to power.

Why would an Al Qaeda even be necessary or supportive of this timeline after the death of 37 million souls?
Khan ruled southern Asia, but there were other supermen who achieved control of other areas of the world outside of Khan's area. The war was likely spread amongst all their areas of control.

The Eugenic Wars killed six-tenths of one percent of the 1996 Human population, whether Al Qaeda was involved in the fighting directly is debateable, as long as their leadership survived (or even without them) the organization could alway recruit more foot soldiers and suicide martyrs.

The ridiculous grievances that Al Qaeda leveled at America could still be in place, because they weren't actually based on reality.

The end of the Eugenic Wars and the September 11th attack were half a decade apart, the Trek-verse could easily have had both.

The very lands that gave rise to terrorist organizations in our own continuum devastated by the EW ...
Impossible to said with any assurance.

:devil:
 
At this juncture, I feel a need to re-iterate some statements made prior to this point in the thread. We will approach this subject based on:

Conditions for Discussion;

A: Star Trek exists in an alternate continuum which diverged from our own around 1968 at the very latest and possibly as early as 1930.

B: No effort will be made to make the original source materials (TOS/TAS/TWOK in order of priority) conform or otherwise support the contentions of materials produced during and after 1987. The arguments for or against this decision have been well-documented in other threads and discussions. "First In, Last Out" rules apply here.

I understand your point, but you cannot ignore the fact that other things were happening, especially in light of the Cold War, or competing geopolitical interests. In fact, with the defeat of the Augments, there would be a power-vacuum of sorts that could very well set the stage for events that would lead to World War III. And besides, other than Khan, we know very little of what the other Augments may or may not have done, other than within the various publications (often contradictory). Then again, as Spock had said in "Space Seed", there is very little in the way of records that could be found pre-First Contact, which is why I gave my own thoughts on this matter.
 
I understand your point, but you cannot ignore the fact that other things were happening, especially in light of the Cold War, or competing geopolitical interests. In fact, with the defeat of the Augments, there would be a power-vacuum of sorts that could very well set the stage for events that would lead to World War III. And besides, other than Khan, we know very little of what the other Augments may or may not have done, other than within the various publications (often contradictory). Then again, as Spock had said in "Space Seed", there is very little in the way of records that could be found pre-First Contact, which is why I gave my own thoughts on this matter.

I'm not denying at all that "other things were happening" nor could I deny at all any sort notion of a power vacuum opening up where there had once been a forty-nation alliance-turn-pissing match between 1993 and 1996. The difference here is that I choose not to consider your points above via the lense of TNG/FC/ENT. I will consider them via the conditions set for this thread. I do not at all denying the veracity of Trek "canon", nor am I incapable of working within that much-lauded framework supposedly established by the Trek powers that be. I simply choose to approach this subject from a techno-literary angle. If you can work with me in that endeavor, I would appreciate it. This thread appears to be wobbling around over what is fed to us and what we can conjecture happened on our own. I have chose to do the latter with this thread.
 
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