The Enterprise...then and now?

[ST-One]

My memory is really foggy, but I vaguely remember hearing somewhere that TAS was recently (2006?) considered canon. I have a strong feeling though that this is a simple case of false recollection. Probably a manifestation of some article I read on startrek.com and the documentary on the TAS DVD.

In any case, I see the Robert April name name-dropped a lot on official merchandise. He is certainly regarded as official canon by not only the fans, but by those who have worked on the show (Sussman, Rossi, Okudas). I'd say he is about as canon as McCoy's daughter Joanna, which to me means that he fits the bare minimum of requirements needed to be considered canon. I, of course, don't have the final word.

McCoy's daughter was supposed to appear in Season 4 of TOS. The very fact that there hasn't been a season four makes her as 'un-canon' as April.
Don't forget that neither of any of the 'official' books or novels nor TAS is considered as canon, as far as the TV-shows and movies are concerned.
The shows and films can (and do) contradict TAS and any Trek-book at any time.
But that doesn't mean that the books and TAS cannot be used as resources.

 

[Kemaiku]

The Drone ships from the TAS episode where the Enterprise had to escort two of them, have been used twice in TOS-R now, a "livable" version for the Antares and a direct drone use in The Ultimate Computer.

Shir'Kar city (spelling) is now seen in the background during the remastered Amok Time.

So I'd say CBS have already started using the more believable and useful parts of the animated series. The film could use April for a short time prior to Pike, maybe for a few minutes of the film.

He's not canon yet, but he can be and theres a precedent being set now with the current revisiting of the TOS era.

 

[TheCanon72]

The Enterprise's parts are being built on Earth. Just as TAS said they were. :thumbsup:

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

He is certainly regarded as official canon by not only the fans, but by those who have worked on the show (Sussman, Rossi, Okudas).

In fact, it's not considered "canon" by the Okudas according to their intros to their books. And the fans don't get to make the call on what's "official canon" at all.

That April was "established" in a cartoon doesn't mean that anyone has to "live with it" in the future - it can easily be ignored going forward, as so much other Trek trivia has been in the past. Thus far we know that in the new version of "Star Trek" there is a Captain Pike and a Captain Kirk serving, in turn, as commanders of the Enterprise - but as yet no indication that April will be acknowledged.

 

[Captain Robert April]

And nothing to indicate that April didn't have the ship prior to Pike.

Add in a lot of officially sanctioned material and merchandise to support his captaincy, plus the sniggling detail that on October 12, 1974, NBC aired an episode of a series, titled simply "Star Trek", which quite definitely established that the first captain of the Enterprise was Robert April.

To put it another way, prove April wasn't the first captain.

 

[ST-One]

The Drone ships from the TAS episode where the Enterprise had to escort two of them, have been used twice in TOS-R now, a "livable" version for the Antares and a direct drone use in The Ultimate Computer.

Shir'Kar city (spelling) is now seen in the background during the remastered Amok Time.

So I'd say CBS have already started using the more believable and useful parts of the animated series. The film could use April for a short time prior to Pike, maybe for a few minutes of the film.

He's not canon yet, but he can be and theres a precedent being set now with the current revisiting of the TOS era.

:thumbsup:

 

[ST-One]

And nothing to indicate that April didn't have the ship prior to Pike.

Add in a lot of officially sanctioned material and merchandise to support his captaincy, plus the sniggling detail that on October 12, 1974, NBC aired an episode of a series, titled simply "Star Trek", which quite definitely established that the first captain of the Enterprise was Robert April.

To put it another way, prove April wasn't the first captain.

Proving a negative?
Hardly.

Only the live-action parts of the Trek-universe are to be considered canon. That is common knowledge (or at least it should be).

To me personaly April indeed IS Pike's predecessor.
But if the new movie or another TV-series establishes that it was March or June and not April who commanded the Enterprise before Pike and Kirk, then we have to accept that.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^^ You guys can be really thick.

It's done. It's established. Live with it.

I'm pretty sure that when those in charge of Star Trek convene their next "Council of Trent" neither you, I or most members of ths board will be invited. So far it's seems the the Holy Franchise Fathers have declared TAS to be apocryphal at best. It could be worse, at least it's not heresy.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

^^ You guys can be really thick.

It's done. It's established. Live with it.

I'm pretty sure that when those in charge of Star Trek convene their next "Council of Trent" neither you, I or most members of ths board will be invited. So far it's seems the the Holy Franchise Fathers have declared TAS to be apocryphal at best. It could be worse, at least it's not heresy.

As far as I'm aware, nobody but Gene Roddenberry ever declared TAS "outside of canon." Was there ever a formal, Paramount-driven statement to that effect?

You get into a serious "slippery slope" when you start deciding that parts of what's been produced, sold, and aired is "outside of canon." You do that, and suddenly, someone decides that "Assignment: Earth" never happened... then that Picard never commanded the Stargazer... and so on and so on. Everyone who might dislike some element can then snip that part away... and the audience will never know what's going on.

As for me, I assume that every episode ever shown is "real" but isn't necessarily "accurate." That is, some episodes (and in particular, many of the animated ones) are general approximations of some "real" story. But that also applies to TOS... many episodes may not be PERFECT representations of the "real" stories that they were telling. But SOMETHING happened where some people took over Spock's brain to control a computer... though I personally don't accept that it was exactly as we saw it. :thumbsup:

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

To put it another way, prove April wasn't the first captain.

Don't have to. The only way he becomes "the first captain" of the Enterprise is for him to be stated so or to so appear in some future film or episode of "Star Trek." There is a reasonable chance that something in Abrams' movie will suggest the contrary, if not state it outright.

Of course, if Orci and Kurzman want to pander to a few fans they could also write him in as the "parking lot attendant" who turns over the keys as it were to Christopher Pike.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Don't have to. The only way he becomes "the first captain" of the Enterprise is for him to be stated so or to so appear in some future film or episode of "Star Trek."

Well, since he's already appeared in an episode of "Star Trek" I guess that means that he was the first captain of the Enterprise.

 

[Captain Robert April]

:thumbsup:

 

[Nerys Myk]

^^ You guys can be really thick.

It's done. It's established. Live with it.

I'm pretty sure that when those in charge of Star Trek convene their next "Council of Trent" neither you, I or most members of this board will be invited. So far it's seems the the Holy Franchise Fathers have declared TAS to be apocryphal at best. It could be worse, at least it's not heresy.

As far as I'm aware, nobody but Gene Roddenberry ever declared TAS "outside of canon." Was there ever a formal, Paramount-driven statement to that effect?

You get into a serious "slippery slope" when you start deciding that parts of what's been produced, sold, and aired is "outside of canon." You do that, and suddenly, someone decides that "Assignment: Earth" never happened... then that Picard never commanded the Stargazer... and so on and so on. Everyone who might dislike some element can then snip that part away... and the audience will never know what's going on.

As for me, I assume that every episode ever shown is "real" but isn't necessarily "accurate." That is, some episodes (and in particular, many of the animated ones) are general approximations of some "real" story. But that also applies to TOS... many episodes may not be PERFECT representations of the "real" stories that they were telling. But SOMETHING happened where some people took over Spock's brain to control a computer... though I personally don't accept that it was exactly as we saw it. :thumbsup:

To tell the truth I'm not sure. All I know is that TAS seems to be treated differently than the live action shows. Perhaps the show runners, production staff, writers and TrekLit authors who some times frequent the boards might be able to shed some light. Personally I think all movies and episodes should be canon, but its not my call to make. Can't really wrap my head around the "accuracy" thing. Slightly inaccurate re-enactments of historical events just doesn't float my boat, but if it floats yours that cool.

 

[Kemaiku]

As far as I'm aware, nobody but Gene Roddenberry ever declared TAS "outside of canon." Was there ever a formal, Paramount-driven statement to that effect?

As far as I can remember only Roddenberry considered it to not be canon, and that everyone since then simply worked off that basis.

But when the series itself was cleaned up and finally put out on DVD, Paramount held a poll on the main Star Trek site to see if fans wanted it to be canon or not.

And TOS-R has started using some elements of it, may continue to do so and the new movie could have a few nods to it.

Enterprise season 5, should it have been made, would have had the Kzinti (?) returning for an episode.

Its not strictly canon, but since Roddenberrys death Paramount has been allowing hints of it to leak into modern Trek so I guess the best way to describe it is "semi-canon".

As in elements of it can be used without canonising the entire series, other parts of it can be ignored altogether.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Think they could've gotten Larry Niven to write that Kzinti episode, like he did "The Slaver Weapon"?

 

[Vonstadt]

I always pictured Robert April as the pseudo Marco Ramius (Capt of the Red October) as a highly experienced Captian who was given the honor so to speak of taking out the best ships during their shakedown cruises.

Following his tour the Enterprise went to Pike and then eventually to Kirk. It always added a nice depth to the history of the Ship few shows or stories tend to give their vessels.

As for the changes, I think we will see some buffing and more detailing but overall she will be the same lovely lady we all know and love! I mean keep in mind the teaser showed her not yet finished...those nacelles may just not have had their caps on them...unfinished as it were...hence still be constructed

Plus semi canon or not Robert April is in the encyclopedia and has been since the first edition...so that is good enough for me

Just my two cents

Vons

 

[Kemaiku]

Think they could've gotten Larry Niven to write that Kzinti episode, like he did "The Slaver Weapon"?

The story was designed to be a lead up to that episode, I don't know who they had lined up to write it but if there was enough interest then yeah they may have brought him back to write it.

All they had was a basic outline and a rough CG render of a Kzinti tri-nacelle ship.

 

[Dieks]

As much as I love the TMP Enterprise I just want to see her on the big screen in a decent movie...TOS, TAS, or TMP.