The Enterprise...then and now?
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
That's the absolute only thing that's going on here - people bashing their fixed opinions against others. I think the likelihood of that creating a spark is unlikely.
One would tend to think someone with your creative talents would be less dense, but we can't be brilliant all the time.
You are forgiven. :thumbsup:
Probably not prior to TAS, but certainly during the writing of "The Counter-Clock Incident", so that's gotta count for something.
Within the actual show itself (1966-1969) never. 'Captain Robert April' was the name of the Star Trek starship captain in his very first draft of the 'Star Trek' series proposal to NBC (before a full pilot script had been written). Also, in that version the 'hero ship' was NOT the 'USS Enterprise'; it was the 'USS Yorktown'.
There is no question but that Gene Roddenberry was IN CONTROL of the animated show, every bit as much as he was in control of the original live-action show.
Yes, there were outside influences in TAS, but no more so than in TOS. Yes, there were compromises in TAS, but (again) no more so than in TOS.
I view TAS very much in the same light as I view episodes like "The Apple" and even "Spock's Brain." That is... they're "dramatizations of real events" which may have been subtly different in the "real Star Trek universe."
The worst elements of TAS were due to the shortened nature of the storytelling, the "dumbing down" of some small elements to meet "kid fare" standards, and the animation shortcuts which had to be used (which necessitated, for instance, the "life support belts" in lieu of actual space suits... allowing the same basic pre-drawn body parts to be reused for animation).
The best elements were the... well, honestly, the more "hardcore sci-fi" storytelling often used, and the more imaginative design (both of which were limited by live-action filming in the 1960s). Today, you could accomplish BOTH through the use of CGI... but that was not an option at the time.
TAS is "real" but not "entirely real" within the "real Star Trek universe," in my opinion.
It was RODDENBERRY, during TAS, who approved the name April as being the first captain of the Enterprise. He may have eventually decided he was embarassed by having done a "kiddie show" (which is really wasn't!) and tried to deny having made it, but he DID MAKE IT, and it was actually pretty good... better, overall, than much of the stuff that came along later!
April was the first captain of the Enterprise. That's canon.
Pike came after April. We don't know if there was anyone else in between.
Kirk took command of the Enterprise after Pike. It's implied, but not 100% stated, that Pike handed the Enterprise over to Kirk directly. We know that Kirk kept the Enterprise for AT LEAST five years. Some would argue it was ten or more. (That would be, a separate mission prior to the five-year-mission, during WNMHGB, prior to a major refit, and possibly a second five-year-mission, to account for all the novels and so forth!)
We know that Kirk handed over Enterprise for refitting and Decker became captain.
We don't know if Kirk commanded Enterprise for any real time after Decker, though it's sort of implied. All we know for sure is that the next time we see her, Spock is in command, and she's a training vessel. It's entirely possible that there could have been another captain in between, who we've never heard of.
We know that Kirk eventually commanded the 1701-A for some unknown number of years, and that she was retired at some point after ST-VI (though it's not KNOWN that it was immediately afterwards).
That's all that we really know.
There's no reason to assume that what we're seeing in the preview trailer is the Enterprise as originally built... or that we're even seeing "our universe's" Enterprise. It could be during the "refit" prior to the second five-year-mission, for instance. It could be the "battleship Enterprise" we've heard hints of. It could be purely figurative and not be the "real" production model at all.
We just don't know. Well, SOME of us know, but those people just aren't gonna say... nor should they!
ST-One
Vice Admiral
It is not... yet.
Roddenberry wanted the Enterprise to be a ship with "some history" and not some fresh from the showroom prima donna. Working in that first pilot with the established show is along those lines (and was also a brilliant piece of production; essentially a clip show of stuff the audience had never seen, instead of the usual version where the characters sit around and offer up lines like, "Remember when you got caught doing..." and the flashbacks start rolling...think TNG's "Shades of Gray"). The entry in "The Making of Star Trek" implying that the Enterprise might be around 40 years old at the time also plays into this (later trimmed back to around 20 years at the time of TOS).
So, it's established that Kirk was not the Enterprise's first skipper, and while it is establised that Kirk took over from Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain (look it up, that's almost exactly the line delivered in "The Menagerie") but nothing to indicate that Pike was the first captain, which is precisely the sort of detail you'd expect to be mentioned, even if only in passing during a log entry, if, in fact, Pike was the first captain. As it is, he's only established as the captain previous to Kirk. Again, the thought at the time was that this ship might be forty years old, and while Pike was, albeit sloppily, established as older than Kirk, he wasn't THAT much older.
In cases like this, where there might be some inclination to nail down, once and for all, who the captain was when the ship left spacedock, the tendency is to go back to the source, so even if TAS is discounted, that initial format proposal is still there, so it's likely that JJ & Co. would nail down April as the first captain as an homage to that first pitch.
Either way, I win.
So, it's established that Kirk was not the Enterprise's first skipper, and while it is establised that Kirk took over from Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain (look it up, that's almost exactly the line delivered in "The Menagerie") but nothing to indicate that Pike was the first captain, which is precisely the sort of detail you'd expect to be mentioned, even if only in passing during a log entry, if, in fact, Pike was the first captain. As it is, he's only established as the captain previous to Kirk. Again, the thought at the time was that this ship might be forty years old, and while Pike was, albeit sloppily, established as older than Kirk, he wasn't THAT much older.
In cases like this, where there might be some inclination to nail down, once and for all, who the captain was when the ship left spacedock, the tendency is to go back to the source, so even if TAS is discounted, that initial format proposal is still there, so it's likely that JJ & Co. would nail down April as the first captain as an homage to that first pitch.
Either way, I win.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Roddenberry wanted the Enterprise to be a ship with "some history" and not some fresh from the showroom prima donna. Working in that first pilot with the established show is along those lines (and was also a brilliant piece of production; essentially a clip show of stuff the audience had never seen, instead of the usual version where the characters sit around and offer up lines like, "Remember when you got caught doing..." and the flashbacks start rolling...think TNG's "Shades of Gray"). The entry in "The Making of Star Trek" implying that the Enterprise might be around 40 years old at the time also plays into this (later trimmed back to around 20 years at the time of TOS).
So, it's established that Kirk was not the Enterprise's first skipper, and while it is establised that Kirk took over from Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain (look it up, that's almost exactly the line delivered in "The Menagerie") but nothing to indicate that Pike was the first captain, which is precisely the sort of detail you'd expect to be mentioned, even if only in passing during a log entry, if, in fact, Pike was the first captain. As it is, he's only established as the captain previous to Kirk. Again, the thought at the time was that this ship might be forty years old, and while Pike was, albeit sloppily, established as older than Kirk, he wasn't THAT much older.
In cases like this, where there might be some inclination to nail down, once and for all, who the captain was when the ship left spacedock, the tendency is to go back to the source, so even if TAS is discounted, that initial format proposal is still there, so it's likely that JJ & Co. would nail down April as the first captain as an homage to that first pitch.
Either way, I win.
I would love the fact that Robert April would be made part of the canon... so long as the ship would not be renamed as Yorktown...
Exactly. It's not "canon" and may never be.
April is, at most, a nonentity in any event. Who really cares?
This may be where we agree to disagree on the canonical nature of Captain April.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Funny though that he has never been mentioned anywhere but TAS - and since TAS is also not part of the canon as a whole...
My memory is really foggy, but I vaguely remember hearing somewhere that TAS was recently (2006?) considered canon. I have a strong feeling though that this is a simple case of false recollection. Probably a manifestation of some article I read on startrek.com and the documentary on the TAS DVD.
In any case, I see the Robert April name name-dropped a lot on official merchandise. He is certainly regarded as official canon by not only the fans, but by those who have worked on the show (Sussman, Rossi, Okudas). I'd say he is about as canon as McCoy's daughter Joanna, which to me means that he fits the bare minimum of requirements needed to be considered canon. I, of course, don't have the final word.
In any case, I see the Robert April name name-dropped a lot on official merchandise. He is certainly regarded as official canon by not only the fans, but by those who have worked on the show (Sussman, Rossi, Okudas). I'd say he is about as canon as McCoy's daughter Joanna, which to me means that he fits the bare minimum of requirements needed to be considered canon. I, of course, don't have the final word.
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