The End of Time, Part 2 US Airing Grading and Discussion

[Davros]

They never showed what happened to the Master. They didn't show him vanish with the other Time Lords, the never showed him leave, or even fall down in the end. It looks like a clear open window for him to come back. I also wonder if any Time Lords we did not see took their chance to TARDIS their way off of Gallifrey while it was back in reality.

 

[Chris3123]

Chris3123 I do have a question.... Not to knock you just genuinely curios. As my family and I watched I also thought that the woman might have been the Doctors mother in the end but I never saw or heard of any direct evidence of that. You spoke of it as if it was proven. What part of the episode made you draw that conclusion? I DVR'd the episode so I will go back and watch it, but I just don't remember. I really do hope that was his mother though.

It was stated in the official episode commentary.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Brilliant. I've been let down by Davies big finales in the past, but he finally got it right. Tennant was just amazing, and the last bit with him visiting all the companions wrenched my heart.

Not to be too fanwanky, but I got a huge kick out of the fact that the Lord President was Rassilon (he always seemed like a heartless bastard, even in the old show.) I like to think the other dissenting council member was Romana.

Also, who else thinks it's only a matter of time before we see The Nightmare Child, the Skaro Degradations, and the Hordes of Travesty? I mean, they've mentioned the Child like three times now.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Thought it was great. The story kind of wandered a bit with a lot of Ah Ha! moments and twists. But I didnt mind because the cast was good. The long farewells brought tears to my eyes. Even my wife who only half pays attention to the show teared up. (And asked a million questions)

Mickey and Martha hooking was a bit odd. He doesn't seem her type. Though Mickey has grown a bit since season one. His time on "Pete's Earth" toughened him up a bit. I hope they'll show up on SJA since they're in the "freelance alien hunter" biz like Sarah Jane. Or maybe Torchwood if they start up again.

Not sure about Matt Smith yet. Did like His first scene checking out his new face. The preview was action packed ( as those things tend to be) so its hard to get what his take will be.

 

[tomalak301]

Saw both parts tonight and wow, that was incredible. What a way to go out, and bring in a lot of the mythos from Doctor Who past. I was really intregued with the Time Lords story and why they were portrayed in a negative light, but RTD did a great job with that angle. As for the final half hour, powerful stuff, even though I wonder if I liked The Parting of the Ways better. In that one the regeneration just happened. This one it seemed to wander to the point of saying for the final half hour, "Yes the doctor is going to die, but we're going to hold on to him as long as possible in the time frame." There wasn't any spontaneity to it and I think that's what I liked about the first regeneration. Still though, well done and I'm looking forward to the new era.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

They never showed what happened to the Master. They didn't show him vanish with the other Time Lords, the never showed him leave, or even fall down in the end. It looks like a clear open window for him to come back. I also wonder if any Time Lords we did not see took their chance to TARDIS their way off of Gallifrey while it was back in reality.

I too wondered about the fate of the Master. According to the Wikipedia article on the episode, he was sent away with the rest of the Time Lords, but since he wasn't involved in the Time War, that doesn't add up to me.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Chris3123 I do have a question.... Not to knock you just genuinely curios. As my family and I watched I also thought that the woman might have been the Doctors mother in the end but I never saw or heard of any direct evidence of that. You spoke of it as if it was proven. What part of the episode made you draw that conclusion? I DVR'd the episode so I will go back and watch it, but I just don't remember. I really do hope that was his mother though.

It was stated in the official episode commentary.

Well not really, it's stated that Julie thinks it is, and most people assume it's his mother but Russell pretty much says he left it ambiguous on purpose.

 

[Harry Palmer]

Rassilon was a good guy he put an end to the violent games the Time Lords used to play with lesser forms. Turning him and the rest of time lords into villains kind of pisses me off. Oh well some future writer can fix it and bring Romana back as well. Here's hoping for less Earth and more alien worlds and no Daleks in the upcoming.

 

[Dionysis]

They never showed what happened to the Master. They didn't show him vanish with the other Time Lords, the never showed him leave, or even fall down in the end. It looks like a clear open window for him to come back. I also wonder if any Time Lords we did not see took their chance to TARDIS their way off of Gallifrey while it was back in reality.

I too wondered about the fate of the Master. According to the Wikipedia article on the episode, he was sent away with the rest of the Time Lords, but since he wasn't involved in the Time War, that doesn't add up to me.

This was shown in the episode, when the Time Lords were disappearing, the Master was standing next to them and disappeared with them.

 

[Cutter John]

Rassilon was a good guy he put an end to the violent games the Time Lords used to play with lesser forms. Turning him and the rest of time lords into villains kind of pisses me off. Oh well some future writer can fix it and bring Romana back as well. Here's hoping for less Earth and more alien worlds and no Daleks in the upcoming.

Thats the official story of course. There are rumors that the timelords rebelled against his cruelty and eventually locked him in his tomb in the death zone on Gallifrey. (to paraphraise 'The Five Doctors')
And I always saw the Time Lords as more amoral than good. Plus y'know, war can make monsters of the best of people. "Those who stare in to the abyss, etc.."

 

[Neroon]

And someone mentioned seeing RTD in a crowd scene. I double checked later and it wasn't him. Just some bloke with glasses.

I thought exactly the same thing, both times we saw the chap. He had Davies' round face and eyeglasses with similar frames.

And can anyone confirm just what it was that Lucy threw at The Master? I think that whole scene was part of what I disliked so much about part 1, the whole "book of Saxon", etc.... which led to some reservation about part 2 since it wasn't really explained.

 

[DWF]

And someone mentioned seeing RTD in a crowd scene. I double checked later and it wasn't him. Just some bloke with glasses.

I thought exactly the same thing, both times we saw the chap. He had Davies' round face and eyeglasses with similar frames.

And can anyone confirm just what it was that Lucy threw at The Master? I think that whole scene was part of what I disliked so much about part 1, the whole "book of Saxon", etc.... which led to some reservation about part 2 since it wasn't really explained.

I think the Master created the book of Saxon in order to bring himself back should something go wrong. And the vial that Lucy threw at him were chemicals designed to counteract the ones poured into the pot along with his ring.

 

[Jim Steele]

Rassilon was a good guy he put an end to the violent games the Time Lords used to play with lesser forms. Turning him and the rest of time lords into villains kind of pisses me off. Oh well some future writer can fix it and bring Romana back as well. Here's hoping for less Earth and more alien worlds and no Daleks in the upcoming.

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

Time Lords have been depicted as pricks since they first showed up, and the series 5 trailer would appear to have been tailor made to disappoint you.

 

[Gertch]

I'd have to say that was pretty awesome. I've always liked the Wilf character but a whole lot more now.

The commercials were sorely needed towards the end. That way you don't miss anything while going to get another box of tissues. I remember thinking Tom Baker never made me feel like this but then I don't remember all the sad music and such.

The visits at the end were cool. Mickey and Martha on a different planet or AU? The booksigning bit was unexpected and nicely done.


I'll miss this doctor and guess we'll never see him and River Song being together. I hope the new actor is up to the part.

 

[David cgc]

Mickey and Martha hooking was a bit odd. He doesn't seem her type.

Much less so than the pediatrician she was engaged to, that's for sure. I mean, I suppose it's possible that they'd broken up before "The Stolen Earth," but, still. And it retcons "Children of Earth," too.

I gotta say, actually, considering she was so worried about being coming an appendage to the Doctor, it kind of looks like that's what she's done with Mickey, going from doctor to gun-toting alien-hunter for some guy. I'm not sure she's better off at this point.

 

[Jim Steele]

Mickey's always getting the Doctor's sloppy seconds.

 

[Worf2DS9]

^ Heh, yeah. I must say I was disappointed to see that Martha was married to Mickey. I mean, Mickey?? She seemed so happily engaged to Tom back in Series 4. I did like her new hairdo though.

Actually, I could have done without the visits to the previous companions. Donna was fine because of Wilf's involvement in the story, but the Doctor visiting all the others was a bit much. I did like the booksigning scene, though, and I think the Rose scene would have worked better if the Doctor hadn't interacted with her at all, instead just watching wistfully from the shadows. Because when 9 regenerated into 10, shouldn't Rose have recognized him right away? ("Hey, aren't you the drunken bloke in the suit I saw last New Years?") Or is that just one of the timey-wimey things we're supposed to ignore for the sake of sentiment?

Tennant was great overall in the episode, especially in the more contemplative moments regarding the impending end of his "song". That scene in the cafe with Wilf was amazing. ("Even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away, and I am dead."). And when we finally got to the regeneration scene, again, great work from Tennant. His final words were gutwrenching and it seems the TARDIS itself wasn't going to let him go without a fight. Matt Smith's first moments were fun ("I'm a girl!" and "Again not ginger.") and I'm looking forward to the new series whenever it starts here on SPACE.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Because when 9 regenerated into 10, shouldn't Rose have recognized him right away? ("Hey, aren't you the drunken bloke in the suit I saw last New Years?") Or is that just one of the timey-wimey things we're supposed to ignore for the sake of sentiment?

I'm willing to allow that she might not have remembered well some bloke who said hello one time a year (or more?) ago.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Yeah, do you remember what everyone you see on the street looks like over a year later?
Besides, he was in dark and shadow, if there's any more explanation needed.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Because when 9 regenerated into 10, shouldn't Rose have recognized him right away? ("Hey, aren't you the drunken bloke in the suit I saw last New Years?") Or is that just one of the timey-wimey things we're supposed to ignore for the sake of sentiment?

I'm willing to allow that she might not have remembered well some bloke who said hello one time a year (or more?) ago.

The question was raised on Gallifrey Base. My response there:

She saw a guy she didn't know for thirty seconds on the street, in the dark and under poor lighting conditions, and assumed he was seriously drunk. In those circumstances, I'm surprised she didn't mace him.

When she sees him again in a few months, it's not surprising that she fails to make the connection between the New Years' drunk and the Doctor.