The End Of Time Part 1 - Comment & Grading SPOILERS
- Thread starter Tom
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So much of this episode was iffy. I mean, it wasn't awful, but...eeeesh. I remember how The Stolen Earth was an absolutely brilliant setup that was concluded with one the stupidest things ever, whereas I'm hoping this has got all its stupidity out of its system in the first part. Though actually, the whole human race looks like a bottle-blonded DCi Sam Tyler, so...meh. We can only wait.
Man, you guys really tempt me with all those spoilers for part two. 
Just wanted to add that I loved the scene with Wilf and Ten in the café, how the Doctor sees regeneration and almost despises his sucessor and his fear of dying for good while at the same time being a bit weary of life.
The scene were the Doctor and the Master get close was great, too. Really moving.
The introduction of the Master was scary and creepy. We had seen the skeleton thing in the trailers but in the context of the scene with the homeless it was very effective.
It's great that despite the grimness, they had a lot of humour in it, both in the beginning and throughout.
I agree that this episode is mighty weird and I guess, we'll have to wait and see how it gets resolved until it can really be judged. I'm always open to weird but I can see that for some people it goes too far. But if you've been through a bunch of old Who episodes (when the show was still black-and-white) and their often weird and slightly nonsensical plots like me, you get a lot more relaxed about that. I think, so far, the story did make sense, but of course, a lot will depend on the second part.
Poor Lucy Saxon, though. And I wonder what will happen to Donna. It didn't look too good for her there towards the end.
Quotes of the day:
The Doctor: ...do you understand?
Wilf: Not a word.
The Doctor: Welcome on board.
Wilf: Oh my god, she's a cactus!
Just wanted to add that I loved the scene with Wilf and Ten in the café, how the Doctor sees regeneration and almost despises his sucessor and his fear of dying for good while at the same time being a bit weary of life.
The scene were the Doctor and the Master get close was great, too. Really moving.
The introduction of the Master was scary and creepy. We had seen the skeleton thing in the trailers but in the context of the scene with the homeless it was very effective.
It's great that despite the grimness, they had a lot of humour in it, both in the beginning and throughout.
I agree that this episode is mighty weird and I guess, we'll have to wait and see how it gets resolved until it can really be judged. I'm always open to weird but I can see that for some people it goes too far. But if you've been through a bunch of old Who episodes (when the show was still black-and-white) and their often weird and slightly nonsensical plots like me, you get a lot more relaxed about that. I think, so far, the story did make sense, but of course, a lot will depend on the second part.
Poor Lucy Saxon, though. And I wonder what will happen to Donna. It didn't look too good for her there towards the end.
Quotes of the day:
The Doctor: ...do you understand?
Wilf: Not a word.
The Doctor: Welcome on board.
Wilf: Oh my god, she's a cactus!
It kind of makes sense, though, considering that Tennant's Doctor has been slowly growing into an egomaniac for the past few seasons, culminating in becoming KING SHIT OF TIME MOUNTAIN in The Waters of Mars.
Makes one wonder:
If the leader of Galliafrey played by Dalton is either the Valeyard or the Doctor in a final regeneration
Part 2
Wilf manning a gunner position?
Wilf- I got one!
The Doctor- Great Kid! don't get cocky!
Wilf manning a gunner position?
Wilf- I got one!
The Doctor- Great Kid! don't get cocky!
ive said this previously, for me I believe the tipping point was him cheating his own regeneration to survive, the way he talks about regeneration is how we might talk about death.
Hell the whole thing could be a plan of the future 10th Doctor, who has found a way to bring back the Time Lords, but sees the error of his ways, and hatches a plan to kill himself off using the Time Lords (speculation on my part) stopping the whole thing from happening.
I'm going to reserve full judgement until I've seen part 2 but so far it's not looking good. Super-energy-bolt-firing Master? OTT. Gropy, perverted old people? Pointless. Spiky green aliens? Daft. David Harewood's acting? Jesus, I thought he was supposed to be a classically trained acTOR. And what the hell was the point of that pointless Obama cameo? "Look, everyone, RTD is so politically on the button that he's snuck in an appearance by the Media's President! How wonderful." I'm sure there was lots of backslapping over that scene on Confidential.
John Simm is an altogether different story. What an incredible actor! He's has really got so deep into this character. It's a shame BAFTA are so snotty and dismissive when it comes to sci-fi, as Simm would be a perfect winner for next year's inaugural Best Supporting Actor BAFTA award.
John Simm is an altogether different story. What an incredible actor! He's has really got so deep into this character. It's a shame BAFTA are so snotty and dismissive when it comes to sci-fi, as Simm would be a perfect winner for next year's inaugural Best Supporting Actor BAFTA award.
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You're crediting RTD with subtlety as a writer he's never shown previously.
I'm sorry, but RTD's writing is as subtle as a mallet to the head.
Haha, oh dont worry, i'm the first person in line to give RTD a good ol' slap round the face for crimes against television. For some reason I just felt like pointing out just how stupid he is. :P
I agree it makes sense for the Doctor to feel that way, especially after his 'Timelord Victorious' moment. And he's always had an egomaniac streak. In the preview for the next episode, he says that "maybe Timelords do live too long" or something to that effect. Could be a moment of self-recognition.
It also harked nicely back to the very first regeneration, where the Second Doctor speaks about himself in the third person, as if he isn't the same person at all.
Wow. I really liked that. The tension just racketed up at the end.
Bunch of random thoughts:
The scene in the cafe where The Doctor and Wilf get teary was really good.
Something no one's mentioned: maybe this was the reason the Time Lords put the Master back in play in the Time War, so they have a way back. 1234, 1234, 1234.
The carping in here is a bit of a downer. Why can't people just go with it?
Bernard Cribbins is the Man!
"You coming with me?"
"You're not leaving me with her!"
"Fair enough."
The Master's hunger is an interesting add-on to the character. And Simms is really good this time. Good before, really good now.
"Oh, that's lovely, really lovely... did you keep the receipt?"
Hmm, that father-daughter relationship is a bit... creepy.
As soon as the Master saw the gate, he knew he could do something with it.
For those who didn't get it, it's Master clones made out of humans, not just "heads on bodies".
I have to say the whole Master race thing, I didn't see that coming up until a few seconds before zero.
And the interesting thing is that the voiceover implies the Master gets some kind of redemption. But does he survive?!
And Timothy Dalton spitting like that is probably meant to convey he's a bit mad too.
I'm avoiding the spoilers, but I suspect we'll see a huge reboot, and at the end we'll be on an Earth very much like ours, not what we've been calling the Whoverse Earth, with little or no memories of aliens.
Who is the lady in white? Is she the Watcher?
Come to the conclusion most of this ep was a setup for the last ten minutes, which in turn is a setup for the final ep.
Enjoyed it immensely.
Bunch of random thoughts:
The scene in the cafe where The Doctor and Wilf get teary was really good.
Something no one's mentioned: maybe this was the reason the Time Lords put the Master back in play in the Time War, so they have a way back. 1234, 1234, 1234.
The carping in here is a bit of a downer. Why can't people just go with it?
Bernard Cribbins is the Man!
"You coming with me?"
"You're not leaving me with her!"
"Fair enough."
The Master's hunger is an interesting add-on to the character. And Simms is really good this time. Good before, really good now.
"Oh, that's lovely, really lovely... did you keep the receipt?"
Hmm, that father-daughter relationship is a bit... creepy.
As soon as the Master saw the gate, he knew he could do something with it.
For those who didn't get it, it's Master clones made out of humans, not just "heads on bodies".
I have to say the whole Master race thing, I didn't see that coming up until a few seconds before zero.
And the interesting thing is that the voiceover implies the Master gets some kind of redemption. But does he survive?!
And Timothy Dalton spitting like that is probably meant to convey he's a bit mad too.
I'm avoiding the spoilers, but I suspect we'll see a huge reboot, and at the end we'll be on an Earth very much like ours, not what we've been calling the Whoverse Earth, with little or no memories of aliens.
Who is the lady in white? Is she the Watcher?
Come to the conclusion most of this ep was a setup for the last ten minutes, which in turn is a setup for the final ep.
Enjoyed it immensely.
Yeah, I believe that the Master, the drumming and the Timelords are somehow connected. Maybe it was even kind of planned by the Timelords (or some of them).
The Master using energy bolts/powers wasn't quite as confusing to me. The Doctor said that he was "Burning through his own life-force" and occasionally you could see through his skin. You know how Time Lords can physically remove their TimeLord katra from their body? Well, the Master's found a creative use for it no other Time Lord uses because it's freaking insane; that's his Time Lord spirit being released in a wasteful manner. That might also explain his ravenous new outlook on life -- I imagine shedding parts of your own soul is something akin to losing thousands of calories at once and your body demanding more calories to stay powered. But, whatever. Maybe I'm giving RTD too much credit. I have a feeling that The Master won’t continue to have those powers at the end of the story arc; if he does even though he becomes stable then I’ll be disappointed.
The Obama stuff felt quite strange to me. If they were just mocking the way people see Obama as a magical savior, I can kind of see their point, but I didn't find it too funny. In the Who-verse Obama could probably come up with an ingenious solution to the problem, just like the Doctor cured every disease in the universe with a couple of buckets of Kool-Aid. I sensed some anger at the US for the world recession...I hope no one thinks everyone in the White House got together and had a meeting about how they could REALLY sock it to the world. Only soul-less bussiness tycoons would knowingly inflict a recession on both themselves and the entire world. Maybe a couple of hundred shadowy moguls did that, but the average American is suffering from the recession, too. I can barely afford rent for my apartment and I'm first in line in my department to lose my job if more workers need to be let go. (Sorry to bring politics into this; I'm not easily offended by this stuff. For example The American president in the "Last of the Time Lords" two-parter didn't offend me -- at the time I actually thought he seemed more dependable than the guy we had in office in the real world!)
I loved the scene with Doctor Ten talking with Wilf at the pub/café. I don't think that any Doctor has had quite as long to ponder his own inevitable regeneration as the tenth one does -- perhaps the First Doctor; but since he had never gone through the process before he wouldn't understand how it felt like a death in a way. It's one of those things you have to go through to understand, you know? I also like the fact that the Doctor was talking to Wilf about this. For most of the new series the Doctor has surrounded himself by younger people despite him being 900 + years old. By talking with Wilf he got the chance to discuss his own feelings/fears with another person whose mortality wasn't so far away from them. I had actually started a fanfic after "Journey's End" aired where Wilf became the Doctor's companion and helped him with that kind of thing so I was quite happy to see that actually happen -- and it's canon!
I think I would have liked it more without the 'everybody is turned into the Master' thing, but to be honest, it doesn't feel as cheesy as the Earth being towed by the TARDIS or everybody praying for the Doctor to heal him. We've seen machines that can alter the physical make-up of beings before -- remember "The Empty Child"? The medical machine in that could turn people into Gas-mask humans. It's probably the same sort of deal with The Immortality Gate but on a grander level. I also think it's more appropriate than those other things because this is The Master's plan; the Master has an ego the size of a mountain and is quite vain. Now he's also insane. So that plan seems in character for his current state. I'm imagining a battle like in the Matrix 2 where Neo fights a thousand Mr. Smiths...
I liked the concept of Time Lords in the original series and I'm certain that the new series can depict them in a way unlike "dust old senators". In that sense I don't have a problem with the Time Lords returning. However, I've gotten so used to the idea of the other Time Lords being dead or banished out of time that it feels sort of cheap to bring them back -- hopefully the next episode will be grandiose enough to warrant breaking their own rules. I think I'd find it more believable if only a small pocket of Time Lords escaped. Romana, Susan, The Inquisitor, The Judge, and a small group of evil followers for The Judge. (Should Drax return to NuWho? No, wait; don't answer that.) That way you can still have most of the Doctor's species wiped out and since you already knew about two survivors it wouldn't be too big of a surprise to find a few more.
Oh, and I'm so thankful for the British/English Pirates who put the episode online so quickly. God bless them, and save the queen, and what not. I don't get BBC America so I won't be able to watch the show legally from here on out.
"I am SO hungry."
--The Master
The Obama stuff felt quite strange to me. If they were just mocking the way people see Obama as a magical savior, I can kind of see their point, but I didn't find it too funny. In the Who-verse Obama could probably come up with an ingenious solution to the problem, just like the Doctor cured every disease in the universe with a couple of buckets of Kool-Aid. I sensed some anger at the US for the world recession...I hope no one thinks everyone in the White House got together and had a meeting about how they could REALLY sock it to the world. Only soul-less bussiness tycoons would knowingly inflict a recession on both themselves and the entire world. Maybe a couple of hundred shadowy moguls did that, but the average American is suffering from the recession, too. I can barely afford rent for my apartment and I'm first in line in my department to lose my job if more workers need to be let go. (Sorry to bring politics into this; I'm not easily offended by this stuff. For example The American president in the "Last of the Time Lords" two-parter didn't offend me -- at the time I actually thought he seemed more dependable than the guy we had in office in the real world!)
I loved the scene with Doctor Ten talking with Wilf at the pub/café. I don't think that any Doctor has had quite as long to ponder his own inevitable regeneration as the tenth one does -- perhaps the First Doctor; but since he had never gone through the process before he wouldn't understand how it felt like a death in a way. It's one of those things you have to go through to understand, you know? I also like the fact that the Doctor was talking to Wilf about this. For most of the new series the Doctor has surrounded himself by younger people despite him being 900 + years old. By talking with Wilf he got the chance to discuss his own feelings/fears with another person whose mortality wasn't so far away from them. I had actually started a fanfic after "Journey's End" aired where Wilf became the Doctor's companion and helped him with that kind of thing so I was quite happy to see that actually happen -- and it's canon!
I think I would have liked it more without the 'everybody is turned into the Master' thing, but to be honest, it doesn't feel as cheesy as the Earth being towed by the TARDIS or everybody praying for the Doctor to heal him. We've seen machines that can alter the physical make-up of beings before -- remember "The Empty Child"? The medical machine in that could turn people into Gas-mask humans. It's probably the same sort of deal with The Immortality Gate but on a grander level. I also think it's more appropriate than those other things because this is The Master's plan; the Master has an ego the size of a mountain and is quite vain. Now he's also insane. So that plan seems in character for his current state. I'm imagining a battle like in the Matrix 2 where Neo fights a thousand Mr. Smiths...
I liked the concept of Time Lords in the original series and I'm certain that the new series can depict them in a way unlike "dust old senators". In that sense I don't have a problem with the Time Lords returning. However, I've gotten so used to the idea of the other Time Lords being dead or banished out of time that it feels sort of cheap to bring them back -- hopefully the next episode will be grandiose enough to warrant breaking their own rules. I think I'd find it more believable if only a small pocket of Time Lords escaped. Romana, Susan, The Inquisitor, The Judge, and a small group of evil followers for The Judge. (Should Drax return to NuWho? No, wait; don't answer that.) That way you can still have most of the Doctor's species wiped out and since you already knew about two survivors it wouldn't be too big of a surprise to find a few more.
Oh, and I'm so thankful for the British/English Pirates who put the episode online so quickly. God bless them, and save the queen, and what not. I don't get BBC America so I won't be able to watch the show legally from here on out.
"I am SO hungry."
--The Master
Well that was incredibly stupid. I was expecting a typical RTD "throw in the kitchen sink" finale, but this was too much. With the master flying through the air and shooting bolts of lightning I thought I was watching an episode of Justice League.
I hope the second part is better, but I'm not very optimistic.
I hope the second part is better, but I'm not very optimistic.
Well we've seen several offshoots of the Dalek race, perhaps this its the same with the TimeLords? A single group of Dalton's militant followers who escaped Gallifrey at the last moment, and see this as their chance to return and retake their rightful place.
Gotta admit the whole 'Master race' thing seems awfully silly. Definately barking mad. Especially the head spinning bit. And I'm still scratching my head over his revival. Magic rings? Cauldrons? Potions? wtf? Felt like we'd wandered into a D&D film.
Otoh, Simm doesn't look half bad in a pink dress and heels.
One does hope the Gate fixed his energy drain though. Otherwise the planet will be stripped of everything edible in about a day and a half.
It was odd how the Doctor nearlytook a back seat in this story. I was quite relieved that he recovered from his brush with madness in WoM, and is back to being our Doctor. The scene in the cafe was really quite lovely. And of course, what more can you say about Wilf?
"Oh my Lord. she's a cactus."
Some strange story developments.But, I'm waiting to see the second part before I decide if I liked it. Because y'know really, I can live with the story being weak. Its all pretty much window dressing to pass the time until the big regeneration scene.
Now bring on part 2!
Gotta admit the whole 'Master race' thing seems awfully silly. Definately barking mad. Especially the head spinning bit. And I'm still scratching my head over his revival. Magic rings? Cauldrons? Potions? wtf? Felt like we'd wandered into a D&D film.
Otoh, Simm doesn't look half bad in a pink dress and heels.
One does hope the Gate fixed his energy drain though. Otherwise the planet will be stripped of everything edible in about a day and a half.
It was odd how the Doctor nearlytook a back seat in this story. I was quite relieved that he recovered from his brush with madness in WoM, and is back to being our Doctor. The scene in the cafe was really quite lovely. And of course, what more can you say about Wilf?
"Oh my Lord. she's a cactus."
Some strange story developments.But, I'm waiting to see the second part before I decide if I liked it. Because y'know really, I can live with the story being weak. Its all pretty much window dressing to pass the time until the big regeneration scene.
Now bring on part 2!
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It had some good scenes. The cafe scene with Wilf and the Doctor and the end scene with Dalton as a Time Lord were the best for me.
But the Master riding the lightening like Raiden and the using the gate to make everyone on Earth a copy of him... RTD has always been 50/50 for me. Some good scenes, some good ideas and a lot of utter shit in between. So in that sense, at least I wasn't disappointed.
But the Master riding the lightening like Raiden and the using the gate to make everyone on Earth a copy of him... RTD has always been 50/50 for me. Some good scenes, some good ideas and a lot of utter shit in between. So in that sense, at least I wasn't disappointed.
Okay. We'll start with 'magic rings'. The ring was set up way back in 'The Lazarus Experiment', that this was part of the Master's plan for all types of contingencies, which came to fruition in 'Last of the Time Lords'. Saxon was a backer for Lazarus.
Cauldrons and potions. Something happened when the church site was an abbey. The Doctor came and got rid of a 'demon'. The Master? Maybe. He left behind some knowledge of some kind. Seems like Lucy's family had a lot of knowledge about what was going on as well. She knew something was going to happen when she married him. That bit's hazy, should be cleared up in Pt 2.
If we're very lucky, the next ep will rock.
Re: The End Of Time, Part 1 - Comment & Grading SPOILERS
I'm only 20 minutes into it, and it looks promising for the most part, but, I've got to say...
I have never, ever said this before about modern Doctor Who. Even at its goofiest or lamest, I could usually go with it long enough to just enjoy the episode.
But when they started spouting off about "the Secret Books of Saxon?" And then Lucy started spouting off about how she'd been preparing for his return, too?
I just sat there, with my mouth agape, and shouted at the screen:
"WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?!"
I'm only 20 minutes into it, and it looks promising for the most part, but, I've got to say...
I have never, ever said this before about modern Doctor Who. Even at its goofiest or lamest, I could usually go with it long enough to just enjoy the episode.
But when they started spouting off about "the Secret Books of Saxon?" And then Lucy started spouting off about how she'd been preparing for his return, too?
I just sat there, with my mouth agape, and shouted at the screen:
"WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?!"
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