The end of Kurn (brainwashing)
- Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
- Start date
You recall wrongly. I've just scanned the transcript to make sure. But there isn't even a scene where they inform Kurn of the procedure, let alone of him agreeing to it.
We don't know that Worf doesn't tell Kurn about the procedure. All we know is that Kurn gave Worf power over his life/power of attorney, and Kurn expressed concisely his desire to be with Klingons even if in death.
Memory Alpha quotes the episode writer, Ron Moore, as quite explicitly stating that the procedure was carried out without Kurns consent.
So we don't know if he would have agreed to it.
He probably would have refused it on the grounds that it was a dishonorable way to rob him of his only honorable option: death.
If anything, I think Sisko was wrong for interfering with Kurn's desires.
Worf was wrong to wipe Kurn's memory without seeking consent, but if Kurn never would have consented and would have tried to keep killing himself...and let's face it, someone who really wants to die will probably find a way to make it happen...then I'm not sure I can blame him for choosing this approach.
If anything, I think Sisko was wrong for interfering with Kurn's desires.
Worf was wrong to wipe Kurn's memory without seeking consent, but if Kurn never would have consented and would have tried to keep killing himself...and let's face it, someone who really wants to die will probably find a way to make it happen...then I'm not sure I can blame him for choosing this approach.
That's why I think it would have been a better end for Kurn if he had died say saving DS9 from a disaster (that could have killed everyone). Plus Worf would have been proud of his brother instead of pretending that he didn't exist.
Yet the two other facts are completely true.
I'm surprised Sisko had this reaction. You'd think he would have at least cooled down and reconsidered. We know from Tuvok that ritual suicide is legal and practiced on Vulcan, and from TNG that all Worf was doing was handing him the knife, which Picard was going to allow his first officer to do on board his own ship. So it must be legal to do this.
I think Sisko got a report from Odo and didn't understand what was going on, and blew his top.
I think Sisko got a report from Odo and didn't understand what was going on, and blew his top.
Neither the first nor the last time he did so.
That's right. Kurn's life came crashing down because of what his brother Worf did. By not supporting the invasion of Cardassia, Worf "betrayed" the Klingon empire. Kurn paid for the sins of the brother.
Kurn was the sympathetic figure not Worf. Worf was despicable in this instance, just like he was in other instances.
Kurn lived by the Klingon code of honor and the rules of Klingon culture, and for better or worse, he wanted to die by them. He knew no other way.
Worf, on the other hand, mouths off about honor this and honor that all the time, yet he ultimately failed to carry out Kurn's wish. Kurn's life as Kurn knew it was over. All Kurn wanted, at that point, was an honorable death, after the dishonor that he had to endure because of Worf's sins.
I do give credit to Worf for actually attempting to kill Kurn in his first attempt at it. But if Worf had honor, he would have found a way to kill Kurn. Take him to a place out of Starfleet jurisdiction, and finish the job. Worf had no problem taking off his Starfleet comm badge and leaving the Enterprise in order to exact his revenge killing on Duras in TNG.
It seemed to me that it was a cop out when Worf used Sisko's refusal to allow Worf to make any more attempts at Kurn's life as an excuse not to make any more attempts. And it also seemed, to me, a double standard as well. Worf talks a big game about "it's a good day to die" and all that Klingon crap, but when it comes to him and his family he seems to have a double standard. Using Worf's own standards, I thought Worf acted dishonorably, ultimately.
But the bigger problem with Worf, imo, was that he never had an epiphany that maybe something was really rotten about the Klingon culture and Klingon warrior code of honor.
Odo was also an outsider like Worf. But Odo challenged his people's paranoia and hostility to solids. But Worf embraced and worshiped Klingon culture almost blindly.
This incident could have opened up Worf eyes to the madness of Klingon honor and culture, but it didn't. His ridges might be so chunky that nothing could get through that thick skull of his.
Worf wasn't pretending Kurn didn't exist, he was trying to honor Kurn's wishes by 'killing' him but indulging his own desire not to kill or enable his brother to be killed (at that point).
Maybe they should have given Kurn aome reconstructive surgery. Someone is going to recognize him sooner or later. Probably sooner.
He's supposedly the visible leader of a famous Klingon family, a (former)member of the "high council," of the nobility, etc, etc, etc.
What happens then...
He's supposedly the visible leader of a famous Klingon family, a (former)member of the "high council," of the nobility, etc, etc, etc.
What happens then...
They could have had Kurn be killed while saving everyone, but that would have been a deus ex machina ending that ignored the underlying issue, almost as unsatisfactory as the memory wipe.
Sisko's job is to administer the station according to Starfleet regulations and Bajoran law. He's not going to give his blessing to Worf to go ahead and murder Kurn even if his personal view would support it (which I don't think it would have). Only way out is for Worf to take Kurn to Klingon space, or a Klingon ship in unclaimed space.
There's assisted suicide in some states now. The state I'm aware of, it involves a terminal illness, at least two doctors' signatures, and the ill person must be able to do the key action themselves - an assistant can prepare the liquid and put it in the patient's hand, but the patient has to put it to their lips and drink it themselves.
Not at odds if it's the Bajoran law that disallows it. Nor if Starfleet regulations require a certain level of medical necessity which Worf's case met and Kurn's didn't. And, really, the difference could just as easily have been that Worf was open on the Enterprise and not as open on DS9. Just because something like that is legal doesn't mean you can just decide to do it with no need for any transparency/official notice.
Worf is terrible, you know this, right? I mean, as far as behavior, in both series, he's a jerk. He snarls at anyone attempting to befriend him. He interferes in Odo's investigations. He hates "the ferengi bartender," lives off the station, tries to kill his brother, shows his son death, and the back of his hand, murders Gowron, kills Duras, tries to commit suicide. He loves suggesting Phasers be fired, but man, if those shields are down...And he calls off a marriage over candles. You sided with you stepmom over your wife, and tortured your friends. Why they're your friends, one will never know.
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