The Dr. Agnes Jurati Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Commander Richard, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. DEWLine

    DEWLine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm still standing by the "coercion through meld" defence.
     
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  2. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Commodore Commodore

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    Why would anyone stand by anything before we’ve had a chance to see Jurati go through evaluation by, say, an array of Vulcan specialists who could perform multiple mind-melds with her and confirm that she never could’ve resisted such a compulsion? Wait for Season Two and we’ll see.
     
  3. trekfan_1

    trekfan_1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Was going to start a thread on this but then I saw this thread. For most I suspect this is small potatoes but for me it really bugged me. When Juratui killed Maddux, why oh why did she give him a painful death? No pain killers, no quick death. She's there crying, totally torn about killing the man he loves and he puts him through agony. Surely there is some futuristic way to give him a painless or at least a death with less pain. It feels to me this was done for dramatic purposes and I feel patronized. "Look at this cool painful death scene with darkened veins and everything!" . Its literally my least favorite part of season 1 and pulled me out of the story.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  4. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Yeah, it's like she was taking revenge for the images that Oh put in her mind... It's funny that she was supposed to be judged and then they simply left it be... weird.

    The story of Oh was more maddening than exciting...
     
  5. Mondragon

    Mondragon Commander Red Shirt

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    Pretty sure the "creators" feel they've already addressed it, and have already had the characters move on.
    Which is what people are laughing about.
    I doubt it will be explored much further.
    I'm wondering if the corpse was still on the ship while they were getting it on:barf:. If the writers even remembered? Or they just wanted Rios and Agnes together as meaninglessly and quickly as possible.
    :lol:
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  6. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Yes, Picard et al. went from "you have to turn yourself in to be judged" to "let bygones be bygones" in three episodes...

    That was definitely odd.
     
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  7. Quinton

    Quinton Captain Captain

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    Y'all gonna flip when you find out Agnes Jurati is Q.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Worf In the 23rd Century Premium Member

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    Did they?
     
  9. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Is that a disagreement?
     
  10. Llywela

    Llywela Commander Red Shirt

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    Picard did not at any point say 'let bygones be bygones'. Nor did anyone else. The trip to DS-whatever to turn Jurati in got sidetracked by higher priorities, i.e. Soji's mutiny and saving an entire community from genocide. Events unfolded from there, and we weren't shown or told what decisions were made in the aftermath, we simply saw La Sirena and her crew preparing to leave Coppelius, destination unknown. Jurati seemed comfortable and at peace, to be sure, but we have no way of knowing that they weren't still planning to have her turn herself in - or that she herself doesn't still intend to. I mean, we know she isn't leaving the cast, but from what we've seen on-screen, we can't judge whether the crew intended to let the matter slide or take it to the authorities still.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is applying logic to someone who was acting irrationally.

    Indeed. Once Season 2 airs I'll judge whether or not it gets commented on. If it doesn't I'll raise the old Vulcan eyebrow. But, at this point, it's anyone guess.
     
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  12. trekfan_1

    trekfan_1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    [QUOTE="fireproof78, post: 13773936, member: 61243"]This is applying logic to someone who was acting irrationally.

    .[/QUOTE]

    But she was thinking rationally enough to make sure she doesn't vaporize him with a phaser as that would invite suspicion on her. Selective logic? If it was portrayed as a total brainwash and mind frig then I can by it. But the scene and the actor's performance made it look she had volition,control and then regret in what she was doing. No reason she wouldn't want to spare a painful death of someone she loves. Even when drunk, I dont think most people would be careless enough to cause pain to a loved one. Mind meld or not, she looked like someone who had better control of their faculties then someone who is inebriated. Makes no sense.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I took it as more like a psychotic break than inebriation.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  14. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    To me, it looks like she was punishing Maddox for the terrible images that Oh put in her mind. As if she was blaming him for something that happened hundreds of thousands of years before. That's the way I interpret it.
     
  15. trekfan_1

    trekfan_1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is slightly off topic to my main point but why wouldn't she even entertain the idea that those images in her mind were planted and not real?. Especially since Vulcans have the ability to implant information via mind meld.
     
  16. Mondragon

    Mondragon Commander Red Shirt

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    For the record (sense there are a couple of different things being argued back and forth here)
    - I have no problem with the idea that implanting the vision in her drove her batshit insane and compelled her to murder in the pursuit and belief that what she was doing was right.
    It's the same vision we are told and shown drove others to smash rocks into their heads, tear their faces off, blow their own brains out, and left others permanently damaged and psychotic. It tells me it was something inescapable. It's consistent with the vision, and how it left them all damaged, to self destructive.
    So why not her?
    I only have a problem (in that I think it's absurd) how she simply then walked it and the murder off:lol: While the supposed madness wrecked others.
    She can't just be ok after. It's laughably inconsistent.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  17. trekfan_1

    trekfan_1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If when she had the opportunity to Kill Maddux some thing "triggered" in her to go batshit crazy and Kill him without remorse then I would agree. But they made it look like she had control and volition. What she did was calculated and timed. That is not insane behavior. She "felt the need" rather than having an uncontrollable urge to kill. They made look like she was complicit. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Think of it like having an itch that you cannot scratch. Over time it build and it builds and you cannot touch it until relief is all on your mind. It is consuming to the point that any outlet would be preferable. I imagine something similarly to her, that she was trying to maintain that control, and had it building in her mind until she felt she could not take the pain any more. She took action to reduce her suffering and give in to the need digging at her brain.

    Just because she was calculated doesn't mean she wasn't insane at the time.
     
  19. trekfan_1

    trekfan_1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Except that's not the impression I got when she killed Maddox. It didn't feel like an uncontrolabe itch. To me it looked like she "had no choice" to kill him based on what she was shown would happen in the future in that mind meld. If they made it evident she had no control to seek mental help, seek another way to stop Maddux or made it clear she would be totally mind frigged in her dreams or awake if she even tried to resist etc, then I would buy it.
     
  20. trekfan_1

    trekfan_1 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Also why not just kill Maddux on sight if she was tormented and insane?. She was driven insane to Kill Maddox but that insanity was tempered just a bit to allow herself to try to cover it up?
     
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