Poll The Doctor as Emergency Command Hologram
- Thread starter Kilana2
- Start date
That doesn't answer anything I asked.
And "prove something false!" is the worst way to prove something, like, ever. That's how religious people defend their silly beliefs, not how reasonable people actually prove things.
And "prove something false!" is the worst way to prove something, like, ever. That's how religious people defend their silly beliefs, not how reasonable people actually prove things.
The ECH essentially means that the ship's computer is commanding itself. Why not have a subroutine set up that should the internal sensors detect no viable life-signs the ship is to travel to the nearest Starfleet base and transmit a distress call? Granted for Voyager that's more difficult, but with no crew interfering with a more direct course then the ship would eventually get home (if she had sufficient resources).
In my eyes, holograms are and always will be tools--especially the likes of the EMH. By the time the ECH would kick in and become active he'd only have Seven, Neelix, Icheb and Naomi to be in charge of (seeing as how none of them are officially Starfleet, therefore have no rank).
In my eyes, holograms are and always will be tools--especially the likes of the EMH. By the time the ECH would kick in and become active he'd only have Seven, Neelix, Icheb and Naomi to be in charge of (seeing as how none of them are officially Starfleet, therefore have no rank).
A few throwaway words back in the day from LaForge started all this mess. A few quick words from a mischief maker or even someone careless and there's no reason why you can't create a billion holographic Kahn Noonien Singhs with a sense of superiority over "organics" and the smarts to see that superiority implemented.
It's one thing if the Doc or Moriarty came to life through some obscure alien intervention or whatever -- but the writers really screwed up by giving any old jamoke the ability to raise a race of holographic supermen should careless words to the computer take them in that direction.
It's one thing if the Doc or Moriarty came to life through some obscure alien intervention or whatever -- but the writers really screwed up by giving any old jamoke the ability to raise a race of holographic supermen should careless words to the computer take them in that direction.
I guess what confuses me about the ECH is that it seems to be of VERY limited use - to the point where there's not much purpose to creating it. Essentially all the biological crew need to be incapacitated, but the ship is still somewhat functional. While there certainly have been rare instances of that, I would think that the most likely scenario is one where the ship is too heavily damaged to be commanded anyway.
It also seems like the concept of an ECH would require a holographic research facility like Zimmerman's to develop, and not something that a small team of engineers on an isolated ship could pull off, but I guess B'Elanna, Harry, and Seven can do anything.
It also seems like the concept of an ECH would require a holographic research facility like Zimmerman's to develop, and not something that a small team of engineers on an isolated ship could pull off, but I guess B'Elanna, Harry, and Seven can do anything.
If you have the resources to implement it, then even if it is extremely unlikely to ever be needed, why not do so anyway?
Granted, Voyager is itself an outlier case, but they did end up using the ECH at least once for its intended purpose.
OTOH, the Doc's ability to grant himself ECH authorization (IIRC) was probably ill-conceived.
Granted, Voyager is itself an outlier case, but they did end up using the ECH at least once for its intended purpose.
OTOH, the Doc's ability to grant himself ECH authorization (IIRC) was probably ill-conceived.
Totally agree with you.
In fact, for me, all this story of ECH was a big bad joke. A farce!
I mean, look at what it (sorry but a hologram isn't a human or a living being but rather an image in three appearing dimensions as suspended in the air, result of modern technology -> would you consider a humanoïd as a living? No, it's just a robot) had done in Equinox, when its matrix was modified (it experienced on Seven, which could have been able to kill her, and all that to make her speak). I can't imagine what would have happened if the ECH had fallen under the control of Cardassians, Devore, Ferengi, Hirogen and of course Kazon (under the command of Maj Cullah of the Kazon Nistrim) or Arturis!
It would have been a human disaster for Voyager's occupants (and on the rebound for the Federation/Starfleet) as well as technological for the vessel and all others holograms used.
I believe that the big problem which I have with the Doctor or the ECH is
that, whatever this hologram does (and God knows that it often had to exceed "its rights", even as sentient), it never has to report to Janeway or whoever it is .for its actions!
I believe sincerely that as ship's doctor it had enough to make: look after the crew and undertake diverse researches at the biological level.
Well... the lack of holographic projectors would be a slight hindrance.
By the By, the Doctor is sentient.
Not anymore a hindrance than air is a hindrance for us. Particularly if the mobile emitter can be replicated or mass manufactured. There was even a Voyager episode where a bunch of holograms were quite effective space farers.
I have never considered him Sentient in my real world. In VOY's world, sure. He's hilarious and interesting and it all works better if he's sentient. But if he appeared before me right now I'd be all.. "nice toaster".
Exactly. There was no spider bite or unreproducable nuclear accident that created the Doctor. We could just make a shitload of them if we wanted. Each one "sentient" and evolving off in its own direction.
Also given that an "ECH" might be needed during a plague or epidemic onboard, something that would pose a significant threat to the crew themselves, wouldn't the EMH be of greater use/need during such an emergency?
The Prime Trek universe invented a super race that you could create simply by asking the computer to whip up a batch. That universe was inevitably overrun by sapient Holograms who enslaved everyone in the Federation.
That'll learn em.
This is why we need the NuTrek universe. They won't make the same mistake.
That'll learn em.
This is why we need the NuTrek universe. They won't make the same mistake.
I agree with this viewpoint. It may be that holograms require and also provide a little something more to become sentient than just a program sitting on a computer. I'd suggest that they are emergent systems, and that the holography itself, in reproducing so much of the program in 3 dimensions, creates the fertile ground for sentience that human knowledge and information, human ingenuity and unpredictability, and then continuing running time all provide (structuring the program in time as well as space), and that given at least some of these elements the program's own interactions with the actual hologram it creates, and the feedback that has to exist, create sentience. In Moriarty's case, for example, the human knowledge and information is the complexity of Conan Doyle's mysteries and sharpness of his characterization, the unpredictable ingenuity is Geordi's careless command...and in this case the last element is absent. But we have seen that the last does at least expand sentience, ie Vic and the Doc. Continuous running time might not always be required.
A sometimes 4th element might be certain interactions with actual people, too. Hence, Fair Haven.
So I do suggest that the fact of the holographic matrix's existence itself sometimes makes a hologram program ripe for sentience, much more than if it was just running in a computer simulation without the holography.
And this would mean that, no, the ship itself isn't sentient and can't become sentient (which is probably all to the good).
The Doc as ECH on the one hand was one thing. Picking holograms as nannys or playmates for children - and I mean only holograms - would be another matter. In the novels
Miral Paris falls seriously ill after she had spent too much time with just holograms instead of real people to have the chance of developing a solid immune system.
hed proberbly be the best captain in starfleet
Absolutely awesome concept!