The destruction of Romulus was an act of revenge by the Dominion
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
- Start date
Hmm. We saw the Jellyfish firing the vial into the supernova. But to be exact, we didn't see her flying by Romulus before that - just debris flying by the planet from left to right before the wave proper hit. Where Spock was sailing was unclear, as we only saw shakycam interiors until the final bit where we saw the timehole ahead. But he wouldn't have been at Romulus, or his ship would have been pulverized along with the planet. The vial-dropping supposedly happens at a spot the wave has reached after completing the pulverization.
So we don't know "for absolute visual certain" that Romulus and the supernova would have been right next to each other, not from a visual that shows Spock flying from one to the other without cuts. It's just that Spock would wish to be at the supernova, and Nero would appear to have been an eyewitness at Romulus, yet the "sucked into the timehole" bit would require the two to actually be in the same place.
If the supernova is at A and Romulus and Nero are at B and A is not the same as B, it takes some effort to get Nero to A. Why would he fly to the former supernova, current timehole? Why would he get there before Spock sets sail for home? If Nero is alive because the wave stopped at B, and everybody closer to A than that is dead, why is Spock not dead? And so forth. The visuals don't tell the whole story, but the "missing links" are easily added. And they can be added by the narration. It's not a case of conflicting evidence, but of incomplete evidence - so I'd really hate to deliberately abandon ay bits of either the visuals or the voiceover.
Timo Saloniemi
So we don't know "for absolute visual certain" that Romulus and the supernova would have been right next to each other, not from a visual that shows Spock flying from one to the other without cuts. It's just that Spock would wish to be at the supernova, and Nero would appear to have been an eyewitness at Romulus, yet the "sucked into the timehole" bit would require the two to actually be in the same place.
If the supernova is at A and Romulus and Nero are at B and A is not the same as B, it takes some effort to get Nero to A. Why would he fly to the former supernova, current timehole? Why would he get there before Spock sets sail for home? If Nero is alive because the wave stopped at B, and everybody closer to A than that is dead, why is Spock not dead? And so forth. The visuals don't tell the whole story, but the "missing links" are easily added. And they can be added by the narration. It's not a case of conflicting evidence, but of incomplete evidence - so I'd really hate to deliberately abandon ay bits of either the visuals or the voiceover.
Timo Saloniemi
True, previous visual melds showed whatever the melder saw from their perspective. Tuvok also used that to investigate crimes, right? But in STXI, we get a flying camera perspective from inside and outside the ship.
It "threatened to destroy the galaxy" according to Spock in the movie. And then, after Romulus is destroyed, "[he] had little time" to stop it.
Remember Star Trek VI, where the Klingon moon Praxis exploded so hard it hit the USS Excelsior, which was in Federation space on her way back to Earth? Sci-fi writers not only have no sense of scale, they like to make things impossibly huge.
OTOH, Spock was late to the party. Had he actually been there when Romulus blew, he would have rescued Romulus, since his plan all along was to drop that vial of red matter into the expanding sphere of destruction, and this would have been the time.
We get no telltale exterior shots of the Jellyfish until the actual drop is made. But the shakycam suggests Spock is in motion when he lets go of the controls and applies the syringe to the red matter ball. These preparations supposedly would be done when the ship is on autopilot and on final approach to the wavefront; OTOH, they take what looks like a minute or so. So Spock wouldn't exactly be within visual range of Romulus yet in the scenario where he is in time and saves the planet, and certainly not in the scenario where he arrives too late. (Also, he would have no time to actually get a look!)
Nero seeing the planet go is good indication that even lumbering mining rigs can outrun the wave, FWIW. And it's not as if the Jellyfish is in warp when dropping the vial, either. So everything in the visuals and most things in the dialogue speak for a very slow and very local action, that is, something we would expect of a natural "supernova" or other stardeath.
The "little time" bit is a mystery, but until we come up with something better, I say that creating a black hole will suck the wave back into where it came from - till a certain point. Spock just can't let the wave expand so far that the black hole won't suck it back.
That leaves only the "threatens the galaxy" bit. But we already have every reason to dismiss the idea that the wave would have crossed star systems on its way to Romulus: not only the above musings on it being a very, very slow wave, but also the fact that Romulus was the very first thing of relevance it hit. Surely any Trek corner of space would be full of worlds in need of saving, in every direction from the kaboom? No other places of habitation were suggested to have been lost, so either the "threat" doesn't travel along the wave - or then something is about to change soon, which is the actual reason for the "little time" bit. But the mechanism of destruction becoming more intense as time passes (say, the wave somehow accelerating a lot) is a difficult concept to sell...
So I'd pick #1 there and say that the "threat" is abstract in nature. Either it's a threat of political instability - or then it's a technobabble threat where the supernova will do something worse than the wave if allowed to go on, say, emit a FTL signal that makes other stars at a distance start blowing up. But again #1 there is my preference, as Spock is so very emotional about Romulan politics. If only Spock holds the opinion that the death of Romulus is a bad thing, then it's easy to see why he would have to build his own ship to do something about it!
Timo Saloniemi
It looks like Spock was there at Romulus for sure.
Edit:
This was in the related column. I haven't seen an honest trailer in years
To address the OP, the problem with this is that you have to undo Odo's conclusion. Odo finally returned home as the "righteous ruler," to heal and reform his people. Either he did that, and the Dominion no longer engages in the destruction of worlds, or Odo's story is kind of ruined, and he has instead come under the influence of the Link, and become like them(or like they were).
Edit:
This was in the related column. I haven't seen an honest trailer in yearsTo address the OP, the problem with this is that you have to undo Odo's conclusion. Odo finally returned home as the "righteous ruler," to heal and reform his people. Either he did that, and the Dominion no longer engages in the destruction of worlds, or Odo's story is kind of ruined, and he has instead come under the influence of the Link, and become like them(or like they were).
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...Or was judged for his crimes against the Link the moment he dipped his toe in there, and swiftly executed. I mean, there isn't much reason for the Link to treat him otherwise.
Of course, all sorts of folks would wish to blow up Romulus. Heck, half the Romulans probably would. Malice isn't ruled out as the root cause for this weird supernova that seems to take everybody but Spock by surprise. (Although PIC, as said, may change that perception soon enough.)
I'm curious - how does it look that way?
Spock wanted to save Romulus. If he was there, why didn't he? Was Nero correct in accusing Spock of direct guilt in the loss of the planet after all?
Timo Saloniemi
Of course, all sorts of folks would wish to blow up Romulus. Heck, half the Romulans probably would. Malice isn't ruled out as the root cause for this weird supernova that seems to take everybody but Spock by surprise. (Although PIC, as said, may change that perception soon enough.)
I'm curious - how does it look that way?
Spock wanted to save Romulus. If he was there, why didn't he? Was Nero correct in accusing Spock of direct guilt in the loss of the planet after all?
Timo Saloniemi
We actually don't know much about what the Romulans were up to, in the years between the end of Nemesis and Picard and also nothing about what happened in the Gamma Quadrant after DS9. Maybe the Founders felt threatened by the Romulans for some reasons and reconsidered their decissions.
And Odo may have been able to change their views on the other alpha and beta quadrant species or solids in general terms, but not on the Romulans for some reason.
And Odo may have been able to change their views on the other alpha and beta quadrant species or solids in general terms, but not on the Romulans for some reason.
Or then a clever Vorta think tank calculated that eliminating the Romulans at this specific moment will mean everybody else in Alpha goes to war with each other and the Dominion wins. Perhaps this is the galactic devastation Spock is worried about, and in PIC we find out why it didn't happen yet and why it nevertheless will unless Picard saves everybody again.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Actually a supernova should be able to devastate with intense radiation planets around other stars for a distance of tens of light years. A supernova exploding in a nearby star system is a potential danger for every planet in the nearby star systems.
However, a supernova might only be able to vaporize planets in its own solar system. It might merely kill all life on the planets of nearby stars while leaving the planets themselves intact.
But possibly a Supernova that threatens all the galaxy might be a super duper hyper mega maxi type of supernova that is many times more super than any supernova known to 2019 science.
The original idea in this thread makes sense in the way that it were the Romulans who turned things around during the war. Alpha qudrant might have been conquered almost easily if Romulans hadn't joined foces with Federation and Klingons.
So Dominion, or what's left of it, blames Romulans for the Alpha quadrants victory.
But if it is so easy to destroy worlds, why limit their vengeance to Romulus, Earth and Qo'noS might be next.
So Dominion, or what's left of it, blames Romulans for the Alpha quadrants victory.
But if it is so easy to destroy worlds, why limit their vengeance to Romulus, Earth and Qo'noS might be next.
Which makes it unfortunately ironic Starfleet erased its existence from the official records. "Oh, hey, who knew that would prevent us saving Romulus? Sorry Romulans."
Remember Star Trek VI, when Kronos' moon Praxis blew up and it damaged the USS Excelsior, in Federation space en route to Earth?
Oh wait I've already said that this thread.
Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale. And be that as it may, the galaxy was threatened and Spock stopped it after Romulus was destroyed. That speaks to a far bigger catastrophe than the Romulan sun.
Altho, as said earlier, Picard will likely retcon events to whatever story they wish to tell.
