The Deadly Assassin and the 13th Doctor

[jamestyler]

I don't remember if it was "Deadly Assassin" or "Invasion of Time" but there was one bit where two Time Lords were chatting with each other and they very casually talked about oh I see you've regenerated yes I thought it was time for a change do you like it?

If every regeneration is one step closer to death, isn't it a little odd that they treat it so casually like getting a face lift?

I don't remember the dialogue, but there is the Doctor talking to a reporter in Deadly Assassin with something like that...

A lot of timelords seem a little self involved, plus I doubt they'd care much about the rebel type getting closer to death.

I remember being quite young when I first saw it and that being the first time I saw a timelord recognising another despite regenerating. I remember explaining it to my sister as like a cat still recognising your scent when you've grown a beard and cut your hair. Which was odd...

 

[Peacemaker]

I don't remember if it was "Deadly Assassin" or "Invasion of Time" but there was one bit where two Time Lords were chatting with each other and they very casually talked about oh I see you've regenerated yes I thought it was time for a change do you like it?

If every regeneration is one step closer to death, isn't it a little odd that they treat it so casually like getting a face lift?

I don't remember the dialogue, but there is the Doctor talking to a reporter in Deadly Assassin with something like that...

A lot of timelords seem a little self involved, plus I doubt they'd care much about the rebel type getting closer to death.

I remember being quite young when I first saw it and that being the first time I saw a timelord recognising another despite regenerating. I remember explaining it to my sister as like a cat still recognising your scent when you've grown a beard and cut your hair. Which was odd...

Runcible says: Oh, have you had a face lift or something?

The Doctor: Several, so far.

Runcible: I see.

Runcible seems to regard the subject as somewhat distasteful. It's probably one of those things that Time Lords don't discuss with each other in mixed company.

 

[jamestyler]

Runcible seems to regard the subject as somewhat distasteful. It's probably one of those things that Time Lords don't discuss with each other in mixed company.

I may have to rewatch it - but I don't remember Runcible seeing the regeneration as distasteful, just his not liking the Doctor. I think there was a line on the theme of "weren't you expelled?" which gave me the impression.

I really need to get my old hard drive working again to be sure though, it's really frustrating having a terrible memory when the episode is on a dead laptop 40cm away from me.

 

[CommodoreKong]

My guess is when they get that far they wont address the issue at all, or at most after the Doctor regenerates and notices he's still alive he'll say something like "That shouldn't of happened, I was out of regenerations".

Nah, I think they'll play up the dramatic opportunity that it provides.

Mr Awe

That may very well be, though it doesn't matter if they ignore it or make it a big plot point, if he runs out of regenerations and the series is still doing well in the ratings they aren't going to end the show.

 

[Mr Light]

It wasn't the Doctor and someone, it was two random nameless Time Lords chatting right before the presidential ceremony. I think it was "The Invasion of Time" for the Doctor becoming President.

 

[DWF]

It wasn't the Doctor and someone, it was two random nameless Time Lords chatting right before the presidential ceremony. I think it was "The Invasion of Time" for the Doctor becoming President.

Well that conversation was about the one Time Lord talking about needing to regenerate soon since he was getting alittle olld and was in his tenth regeneration.

 

[beneldon]

Yeah he looks at himself like it's the first time, but he had to know what he looks like he was photographed at various times in human history so Rose can't be first time out of the TARDIS.

I recently shaved my beard and I still look in a mirror and react like it's the first time. Can't imagine seeing an entirly different face being less surprising.

 

[Marc]

It wasn't the Doctor and someone, it was two random nameless Time Lords chatting right before the presidential ceremony. I think it was "The Invasion of Time" for the Doctor becoming President.

The Doctor nonimated for the presidency to give himself time to track down who the assasain really was but didn't take up the role.

He then returned to Gallifrey in The Invasion of Time deciding and announced he was taking up the position of president.

Of course he was then named as preisdent at the end of The Five Doctors

 

[DWF]

It wasn't the Doctor and someone, it was two random nameless Time Lords chatting right before the presidential ceremony. I think it was "The Invasion of Time" for the Doctor becoming President.

The Doctor nonimated for the presidency to give himself time to track down who the assasain really was but didn't take up the role.

He then returned to Gallifrey in The Invasion of Time deciding and announced he was taking up the position of president.

Of course he was then named as preisdent at the end of The Five Doctors

Yeah but hewas talking about the two Time Lords who were talking at the end of ep. of Thee Invasion Of Time.

 

[The]

Yeah he looks at himself like it's the first time, but he had to know what he looks like he was photographed at various times in human history so Rose can't be first time out of the TARDIS.

I can't believe that four years into the modern run, and fans are still baffled at this little insignificant moment. It's very, very simple. Doctor Who is about a guy that travels in time. So, the ten seconds he disappeared at the end of Rose (you know, right before he comes back and tells her that "[the TARDIS] travels in time") he could have been gone one-hundred years, and had one-hundred solo adventures. During one of those, his picture is taken with that family next to the Titanic. The next he visits Krakatoa, then Kennedy, some solo 9th Doctor specials, then a future multi-Doctor special that they have to do one day ( ), etc., etc., etc. Then, after all is said and done, possibly realizing he is lonely/needs someone with him, he remembers the last person to ignite that spark in him and returns to Rose, wow-ing her enough that she joins him.

It's either that, or the 9th Doctor had all of these adventures everyone seems to believe must have happened in some chronological order, with him never having seen a reflection of his face, anywhere.

I don't see how this is still an issue for debate...

 

[jamestyler]

And oddly enough, it's been debated on every board I've been to - and I've only registered with one Who board and I've never actually logged in... odd...

I'd just hoped to have some clarity on the 8-9 regeneration one day. When talking about the movie RTD said that the best way to do it was to start with a fresh face and show how he regenerated later in a flashback - it'd neve happen outside of audio's and books but theres a story to tell there. In a special. And there are three specials coming up. And I know I won't see it...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'd just hoped to have some clarity on the 8-9 regeneration one day.

We almost did, back in 2005 with Doctor Who Magazine. "The Flood" was written to end with the 8-to-9 regeneration, but the inability to tell a post-regeneration story (because RTD wanted the ninth Doctor to only appear with Rose; he couldn't appear with Destrii unless he didn't look like the ninth Doctor) scuttled the plans.

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

I'd just hoped to have some clarity on the 8-9 regeneration one day.

We almost did, back in 2005 with Doctor Who Magazine. "The Flood" was written to end with the 8-to-9 regeneration, but the inability to tell a post-regeneration story (because RTD wanted the ninth Doctor to only appear with Rose; he couldn't appear with Destrii unless he didn't look like the ninth Doctor) scuttled the plans.

Which pretty much proves that it wasn't RTD's original intention for the eighth Doctor to fight the Time War and regenerate at the end of it, immediately before the events of "Rose". It seems much more likely that it was the ninth Doctor who fought in the Time War - that's why he's so scarred/affected by it.

 

[SeerSGB]

Another way around the 13 regen cap is the Metacrisis-Clone that was left on Pete's World. Something happens, delayed development what have you, and he seeks out the final form of the "real" doctor. Another metacrisis, the two merge, and poof biologic reset.

 

[The]

And oddly enough, it's been debated on every board I've been to - and I've only registered with one Who board and I've never actually logged in... odd...

Totally. I see this debate a million times on a million different boards. I guess it's just fun for fans to have something to debate...

I'd just hoped to have some clarity on the 8-9 regeneration one day. When talking about the movie RTD said that the best way to do it was to start with a fresh face and show how he regenerated later in a flashback - it'd neve happen outside of audio's and books but theres a story to tell there. In a special. And there are three specials coming up. And I know I won't see it...

Yeah, I'd love The Time War/regeneration story, as well. Since the so-called "Flood" story never happened, it can be pretty much accepted at whim how Number 8 ended. My personal theory matches most others: McGann fights in Time War, sacrifices Gallifrey to stop the Daleks, and it ends up killing him causing him to regenerate into the "survivor's guilt"-ridden Doctor Nine. Any other way would, for me, pretty much make The Time War pretty anti-climatic...

 

[jamestyler]

I'm on the same thought level... plus I'd love to see McGann have another go in the role.

Plus from a story perspective it would be interesting to see 10 or 11 go back and live through it again - maybe even break the rules and try to fix it, only to realise he can't and convince himself to take the actions that led to everyone (minus a few thousand Daleks in hiding) getting killed.

We'd either get more personal torment or a bit of clarity from realising there was no other way. Either way theres suffering, and suffering is good TV

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Yeah, I'd love The Time War/regeneration story, as well. Since the so-called "Flood" story never happened, it can be pretty much accepted at whim how Number 8 ended.

"The Flood" happened. The regeneration didn't. However, it's clear from Russell T. Davies' comments in the backmatter that, in his mind, it's the ninth Doctor that suffered the traumas of the Time War, not the eighth.

That said, as Larry Niven said, "The writer reserves the right to have a better idea." If RTD in one of the specials, if Moffat in the future, or a future producer beyond Moffat decides that McGann fought the Time War, then that's what happened. For the moment, though, the authorial intent isn't really arguable -- the Time War is the ninth Doctor's baby.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

When I saw him check his reflection in "Rose" my first assumption was that the Doctor was trying to make certain he was presentable enough to pass as a normal human without causing alarm.

 

[Timofnine]

and in point of fact, I would consider the fact that the Doctor repeatedly says that there had never been a Human/Time Lord hybrid before in "Journey's End" retcons what the TV movie had established.

That is not a fact. He said that there had never been a human/Timelord Metacrisis before, not hybrid.

 

[Sci]

and in point of fact, I would consider the fact that the Doctor repeatedly says that there had never been a Human/Time Lord hybrid before in "Journey's End" retcons what the TV movie had established.

That is not a fact. He said that there had never been a human/Timelord Metacrisis before, not hybrid.

Yeah, but combine that with the five thousand times he's said he's a Time Lord, no qualifiers -- and especially "The Runaway Bride," where he explicitly describes himself as being non-Human -- and the fact that "Journey's End" establishes that a Human/Time Lord combo can't survive, and I think you have a fairly obvious authorial intent: The Doctor is fully Time Lord and that part of the TV movie has been retconned.