• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Dark Side of the Federation and Starfleet

Some fans suggest civilian authorities were in fact the first responders and handed the matter over to Starfleet upon learning Sisko was a Starfleet officer, citing the fact that should such a thing happen to an off-duty military officer in the US that's how things would go. But that suggests Starfleet behaves exactly like the US military, which is usually something those very same fans would argue vehemently against.

That's not necessarily how it would work anyway. Serving US military members are covered by military law always and everywhere, but they are also subject to laws of civilian jurisdictions. If a service member commits a crime outside of a military facility, it will be investigated by the local authorities. If found to warrant charges, the service can let the local prosecutor pursue the case or they can claim jurisdiction and try it under military law. An agreement has to be worked out with the approval of a judge, but the US armed forces usually defer to whatever the local authorities want in the interest of good community relations.

There's a catch for US military members, too: The service can try them again for the same or related offenses even if they have been convicted by a civilian court, it is not considered double jeopardy. Usually this is just done to take the official steps to separate the member from the service; I doubt additional imprisonment would be awarded if that had been part of the civilian sentence.
 
A lot is made of the utopian vision the Federation has portrayed over the course of Star Trek. Repeatedly now we see people say "that's not Gene's vision" every time Star Trek goes dark or looks less than utopian. However, it was brought to my mind recently that, even in TOS first season there are instances that state or imply that the Federation and/or Starfleet is not quite the utopia people think it is.

:)

Here's the example that was given in the Mission Log podcast I was listening to. In "Space Seed" Kirk says about Khan at one point; "Captain's Log. Stardate 3143.3. Control of the Enterprise has been regained. I wish my next decisions were no more difficult. Khan and his people. What a waste to put them in a reorientation centre. And what do I do about McGivers?"

Did Gene Roddenberry create that concept or Gene Coon or someone else?

Granted, I've never read any of Gene's show bibles back then. Only that he detested ST6 because it had Federation people being anti-Federation. either way, the pilots and season 1 were very gray area and evolved over time... since rehabilitation centers also existed in "Dagger of the Mind" and "Whom Gods Destroy", I'm pretty sure TOS never really said "crime doesn't exist" but they found ways to rehabilitate criminals.

Now, here's the thing. Apparently there are "reorientation centers" in the Federation. Is this a gulag? Is it just a prison? Is it a place where criminals are brainwashed to be reoriented? Are these like the re-education camps that are popular in Communist nations both in the past and even today? Why would it be a waste to put Khan in such a facility? Would it do something to him?

Now that's a great point. On the surface, it would just be "we need creative people out here but this person is capable of such antisocial behavior", but starting to think into things perhaps it isn't. Making glossy points to suggest a problem is solved doesn't mean the work done to make the solution function is arguably a form of fantasy as well.
 
That's just another example of the franchise's constant insistence of the Federation Way or the Highway. Here we have humans who decide to go it on their own and leave the Federation. As a result, they devolve into complete anarchy with rape gangs. The price you pay for abandoning the shining beacon of civilization that is the Federation!

This goes back to the glossed-over thing I mentioned above, only in a glossed-over form. I doubt Tasha's homeworld was supposed to be an example of seceding and devolving into "King of the Flies" and all that (maybe it was documented)... but not much was said so it could be, if the story were to be fleshed out with some deftness and intrigue. It'd be too risky to do, since if Star Wars introduced Han Solo in 1977 using 2 minutes of exposition for backstory but then a few decades later they make a whole movie... which pads out 2 minutes into 2 hours and people can't figure out why it wasn't the greatest thing since sliced butter then doing the same thing for Tasha's colony as a spinoff... yay, more prequels like "Caprica" to double as cheap substitutes for soporifics...


Eddington's speech comparing the Federation to the Borg contains a lot of truths in it.

Eddington merely had lunch with Maurice Hurley, who told him the Borg were a parody of the Federation. :devil: (actually, DS9 was taking some behind the scenes kerfuffle and finding a new interesting plot point woven into the show. Nicely done too, IMHO...)
 
Granted, I've never read any of Gene's show bibles back then. Only that he detested ST6 because it had Federation people being anti-Federation. either way, the pilots and season 1 were very gray area and evolved over time... since rehabilitation centers also existed in "Dagger of the Mind" and "Whom Gods Destroy", I'm pretty sure TOS never really said "crime doesn't exist" but they found ways to rehabilitate criminals.
Largely through penal colonies, which continued onward in to the 24th century.
 
After thinking about it more, I suppose the rape gangs in Yar's backstory don't necessarily mean there's something dark about the Federation, although they clearly show there's a dark side to humanity's future, and the problems with humanity that are allegedly "eliminated" are not, and are only eliminated among humans who live on certain planets. This bugs me, because I like the idea of humanity eliminating its problems. I wish they made Yar something other than human, from a race originally unattached to the Federation.
 
Which would mean that even human colonies (I assume, going by the name here) aren't automatically members of the Federation. Maybe Turkana IV never was either, "severing ties" with the Federation could refer to halting things like supply lines, trade and immigration.

Or the name that the universal translator renders as New Sydney is something humans can't pronounce.

Or some Trills visited Sydney, NSW, and liked it and named a colony they founded after it.
 
As for the plainclothes agent in ST3:TSfS, he delivered McCoy straight to a Starfleet gaol, with arrowhead-badged people standing (or sitting) guard.

Which suggests that Starfleet operates the penal system for all Federation personnel. Which indeed was Bob Fletcher intention as "Federation and Fleet Penal Personnel" are part of Starfleet Security in his uniform notes.

If McCoy's high treason indeed called for federal-level interdiction, it's probably telling that Starfleet would immediately take over...

Yes, it tells us that all Starfleet personnel are incarnated at Starfleet facilities at least on Earth... hardly surprising as most service personnel guilty of federal/national crime are imprisoned in military facilities AFAIK.
 
After thinking about it more, I suppose the rape gangs in Yar's backstory don't necessarily mean there's something dark about the Federation, although they clearly show there's a dark side to humanity's future, and the problems with humanity that are allegedly "eliminated" are not, and are only eliminated among humans who live on certain planets. This bugs me, because I like the idea of humanity eliminating its problems. I wish they made Yar something other than human, from a race originally unattached to the Federation.
More there is still something dark about humanity, so much so that instead of teaching a better humanity you must be in the Federation in the strictly controlled environments to ensure that things like rape gangs don't happen.
 
Which would mean that even human colonies (I assume, going by the name here) aren't automatically members of the Federation.

Honestly, the idea that colonies would be forced to be members of the Federation just because they're of the same species as a member seems more dystopic than the reverse IMO. Nominal Protectorate, yes...

I wish they made Yar something other than human, from a race originally unattached to the Federation.

Bajoran could have worked, not sure how well that would go done tho...
 
In the case of Sisko on New Orleans, he was the one attacked, so it makes sense Starfleet Security looked in on the assault
If a modern day military member were assalted off base on a city street, I believe the local civilian police would have jurisdiction.
 
We keep comparing today's laws to a society 350 years in the future. I'm not sure that's fair, unless we do a similar comparidon on current laws and from 350 years ago.
 
Laws are one thing, practicalities another. Jurisdiction only kicks in after interdiction. Why is Starfleet the first responder to everything? Because they have superior resources and win every race against the putative civilian counterparts, be it in thief-taking or helping stabbing victims?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Or the name that the universal translator renders as New Sydney is something humans can't pronounce.
That's an incredibly silly explanation. In such a case I think they would just call the planet after the name of the star/system has in the federation charts.
Or some Trills visited Sydney, NSW, and liked it and named a colony they founded after it.
And that's, while not completely impossible, still quite inelegant.

The simplest explanation is still that it started as a human colony outside the Federatio, as Shamrock Homes pointed out:
Honestly, the idea that colonies would be forced to be members of the Federation just because they're of the same species as a member seems more dystopic than the reverse IMO. Nominal Protectorate, yes...
 
We keep comparing today's laws to a society 350 years in the future. I'm not sure that's fair, unless we do a similar comparidon on current laws and from 350 years ago.
Meh, it is current laws and ways the writers kept drawing on when writing about 350 years in the future, making it a valid comparison. It was up to the writers to think up something different when they were writing the episodes, not up to us to think up something different when we're discussing them.
 
TOS already was quite willing to take a different route, and go for the futuristic: the so-called "penal colonies" have no punitive aspect to them, and the very idea of law as we know it today becomes outdated when crime is considered an illness and carries no penalty.

New Sydney had penalty aplenty, thirty years in prison for murder (without this being considered "life" - possibly 30 yrs is such a small fraction of a human or at least Trill life in the future that it doesn't warrant the name, even if just a dozen years today may be considered worthy of it). The "penalty" for murder in TOS was always best possible care by people in lab coats, with only half a dozen incurables in the entire Federation, so presumably you'd in most cases be in and out faster than it took you to stab your victim. Not a particularly dark system IMHO, not if the cure works and you never murder again - and everybody seemed to think the cure indeed works just fine.

Then again, if you only ever plan on murdering one person, or just one group of people all at once, then the system won't deter you in the slightest...


Timo Saloniemi
 
TOS already was quite willing to take a different route, and go for the futuristic: the so-called "penal colonies" have no punitive aspect to them, and the very idea of law as we know it today becomes outdated when crime is considered an illness and carries no penalty.

New Sydney had penalty aplenty, thirty years in prison for murder (without this being considered "life" - possibly 30 yrs is such a small fraction of a human or at least Trill life in the future that it doesn't warrant the name, even if just a dozen years today may be considered worthy of it). The "penalty" for murder in TOS was always best possible care by people in lab coats, with only half a dozen incurables in the entire Federation, so presumably you'd in most cases be in and out faster than it took you to stab your victim. Not a particularly dark system IMHO, not if the cure works and you never murder again - and everybody seemed to think the cure indeed works just fine.

Then again, if you only ever plan on murdering one person, or just one group of people all at once, then the system won't deter you in the slightest...

Judging form 90s Trek though I'd say "people in lab coats that 'cure' criminals of being criminals" is one of those things that only apply to the TOS version of Star Trek (like large of humans having latent ESP powers, or causally traveling to the edge of the galaxy) Its one of those elements Science Fiction of that period tended to have. And if you think about it, the government having behaviour altering powers like that very much does have the potential for dystopia.

In 90s Trek the Federation still seems to employ imprisonment as penalty. Rehabilitation seems to have been much more of a focus than in most countries today, but penalty still seems to have been an element (like with Bashir's father, for example)
Ro Laren also didn't seem to be "cured" of criminal behaviour, considering she defected to join the Marquis.

Then again, maybe behaviour altering rehabilitation might be restricted for extreme cases such as murder. Maybe there was a whole controversy in the Federation and Starfleet on when and if to employ such methods.
Fear of it getting out of hand could be a factor why colonies might choose not to join or leave the Federation (because otherwise I fail to understand why planets like New Sydney would go back to money based economy and the crime and penalty that goes along with that, unless New Sydney was founded before money became obsolete?)
 
Judging form 90s Trek though I'd say "people in lab coats that 'cure' criminals of being criminals" is one of those things that only apply to the TOS version of Star Trek

Well, TNG still refrained from suggesting a conventional punitive system, and actually mentioned futuristic screening against criminal tendencies in "Justice", that is, a belief that crime starts from a "seed". And DS9 featured the same "punishment" for smuggling of medicine and attempted genocide, that is, an absence of about six months - no punitive system could work that way, but forced therapy easily could.

And if you think about it, the government having behaviour altering powers like that very much does have the potential for dystopia.

OTOH, a government that has the power to frighten people out of crime by using freedom-deprivation torture doesn't leave anything at "potential". Worse still when the "power" actually doesn't work all that well...

In 90s Trek the Federation still seems to employ imprisonment as penalty.

The only time we hear of a sentence of a determined length, rather than a brief absence after which the culprit never repeats the crime, is with Richard Bashir's crime. Perhaps an ancient punishment goes with an ancient offense there?

Ro Laren also didn't seem to be "cured" of criminal behaviour, considering she defected to join the Marquis.

She never received therapy for that, though - this was her first offense.

The system as described in TOS doesn't turn people into sheep. Mudd appears to have been a recipient, perhaps several times. We never ever hear of him being a repeat offender, though: he's inventive enough to avoid that. Surely this is preferable in brainwashing, so that only the absolute minimum is taken away from the patient.

Then again, maybe behaviour altering rehabilitation might be restricted for extreme cases such as murder.

Its first mention is with Mudd's petty crimes in "Mudd's Women", though. It seems to have been quite a success, as Mudd persists with petty, but not with any of the variants listed.

Maybe there was a whole controversy in the Federation and Starfleet on when and if to employ such methods.

...And "Dagger of the Mind" has our heroes describe the aftermath, with Dr. Adams' therapies the winner of the debate and a success story where decades of good work have finally thoroughly reformed crime management within Kirk's career.

Might even be Kirk is especially close to the world of crime management, as he knows penal colony protocol and appears to be a frequent (and perhaps even sole!) visitor to the special Elba II facility for incurables. He doesn't seem put off by Adams' excesses much, not in the subsequent Elba II adventure.

Is Kirk's position a controversial one? A decade prior, Cmdr Burnham got life for attempting (and succeeding in!) the igniting of interstellar war. Her organization still handed out death sentences on occasion, but not for this rather horrid crime. Kirk seems reasonably comfortable with the persisting capital punishment, but does consider the system to be in flux in "Dagger" and himself contributes to it in "The Menagerie"; if controversy existed, this would be the time to bring it up. Instead, it seems Adams is the coming thing and punishment is the departing one.

Fear of it getting out of hand could be a factor why colonies might choose not to join or leave the Federation (because otherwise I fail to understand why planets like New Sydney would go back to money based economy and the crime and penalty that goes along with that, unless New Sydney was founded before money became obsolete?)

Might be it takes the federal machinery to hand out free lunches to all citizens, and lesser outfits can't afford that - but money still runs the show behind the scenes, with only the consumer market totally eliminated. There's riches to be made in industry, but perhaps more riches if you sever ties with the free-lunch bunch and accept that on the rare occasion you might have to pay for yours.

But we see quite a zoo of colonies out there, and they tend to have specific rather than common grievances. Gathering a small bunch of people and sailing to the stars is quite often done in order to perpetuate a way of life, real or imagined, even when the perpetuators fully acknowledge that the way is inferior to the UFP one in most respects (hard work, strict rules, mental policing, racial strife and whatnot). No single grievance against the UFP way of life seems to emerge, only the lament that the UFP is uniform and sterile and doesn't cater for affable cultural stereotypes or selfish esoteria.

Timo Saloniemi
 
TOS era never portrayed the UFP as a Utopia, that whole concept was based on Picard's fantasy version of the Federation and Starfleet, a bit like how some real life people like to boast their nation state is the best on the planet , despite evidence to the contrary.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top