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The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

This has already been brought up before and several examples were brought up in response, most notably the way Nolan used Joker. He took someone that shouldn't have been convincing at all and made him the main focus of everything. Every single character in "The Dark Knight" was some how effected by the Joker's plots and schemes. He took Gotham City and shook it upside down.

Selena Kyle on the other hand I could see as being a highly skilled cat burglar who likes stealing high profile museum pieces or jewelry along with other material things for her own specific agenda. She could be a socialite by day with a cosmetics company that is looking to make some kind of deal with Wayne Enterprises to boost her profile (thus this is how she meets Bruce) with a checkered past that is linked to the Falcone's and Gotham (i.e. Year One and then Catwoman in Rome). Nolan will find a way to make her work.
 
Garak said:
I don't know how you can pull off Catwoman in this "Nolan grittydark universe". :shrug:
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Catwoman is probably the easiest Batman villain to do in this style of Batman story. Certainly far eaiser then Ra's al-Ghul.

Why?

'Cause she's got no superpowers. When it comes down to it she's like Batman only a woman, a different choice of animal motif, and (typically) less scruples as a vigilante - the last point giving you your point of ethical contrast. Catwoman is the avenger Batman can't be. Cue ideological debates where Batman growls at at a woman in a catsuit and that's a wrap.

Definitely easier then going:
'Yes, let's do a down-to-earth Batman movie -'
'Hooray!'
'- Where he fights an immortal Arab!'
'Uh...'
 
Trent Roman said:
That's exactly what it is. In 2005, the FBI under the directions of Bush regime labeled so-called "ecoterrorism" and the animal-rights movement "the No. 1 domestic terrorism threat" in the country. So, by this logic, hooligans like E.L.F. are a greater threat than the heavily armed, violently insular and usually supremacist (white-, Christian-, or both) organizations that riddle the country, have a declared goal of apocalyptic warfare, and have spawned mass-murderers like Timothy McVeigh. They're also a greater threat than Americans who have been radicalized to the cause of Islamic fundamentalists and seek to wage deadly jihad against their fellow citizens in imitation or alliance with organizations like Al-Qaeda, responsible for the slaughter of thousands, and have spawned mass-murderers like Major Hasan. To call such a statement an exagerration seems, itself, like a grotesque understatement. What's the reason behind this? To create the idea of an 'eco-terrorist' movement in juxtaposition with which legitimate environmentalist organizations are rendered suspect, and acts of civil disobediance rendered criminal, or leading to criminal activity; the creation of this 'eco-terrorist' discourse is how the FBI justified its now discredited schemes of domestic espionnage on organizations like Greenpeace and PETA, or placing environmental activists of no criminal background on terror watch lists. The 'eco-terrorism' you invoke of is a manufactured concept designed to suppress legitimate speech and action.
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Not to step in the way of your raging wrath, but Bush and co's vast overstatement of a problem for clearly political means doesn't mean such a problem doesn't exist.

Kegg said:
Definitely easier then going:
'Yes, let's do a down-to-earth Batman movie -'
'Hooray!'
'- Where he fights an immortal Arab!'
'Uh...'
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:lol:
 
Captaindemotion said:
^ The original casting choices were Viggo Mortensen (America/ Danish), Daniel Day-Lewis (English born, Irish passport holder) and then Neeson (Irish/UK citizenship). The character originally seemed to have a French name and wavering Irish-Enghlish accent Then there was the decoy Japanese Ra's. I don't think there was ever any intent to have him be Arabic.
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On a practical level, casting an Arabic-looking actor as "Ducard" would have given away the whole "decoy Ra's al Ghul" twist. I suspect that casting a European actor as the real Ra's was more a case of deliberate misdirection than political correctness.
 
Greg Cox said:
Captaindemotion said:
^ The original casting choices were Viggo Mortensen (America/ Danish), Daniel Day-Lewis (English born, Irish passport holder) and then Neeson (Irish/UK citizenship). The character originally seemed to have a French name and wavering Irish-Enghlish accent Then there was the decoy Japanese Ra's. I don't think there was ever any intent to have him be Arabic.
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On a practical level, casting an Arabic-looking actor as "Ducard" would have given away the whole "decoy Ra's al Ghul" twist. I suspect that casting a European actor as the real Ra's was more a case of deliberate misdirection than political correctness.
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Why? Because Arabs with French names are unheard of? ;)

Anyway, casting Liam Neeson was far more of a meta giveaway than his ethnicity. Neeson is an A-lister, or not far from it. It seemed unlikely for him to wind up Christian Bale's first-act sidekick.
 
^ Well Neeson was basically repeating his supporting roles in Kingdom of Heaven and Gangs of New York, only in Batman Begins he got to return for the third act.

He's also in Russell Crowe's new movie for like a few minutes.
 
Yeah, the take on Bane in B+R was totally insane. I mean, as bad as the movie was, and for as little good as it did, the depictions of Freeze and Ivy were pretty faithful. Whereas Bane, who iirc at the time was still in the running as Batman's greatest enemy, was turned into a ridiculous, poorly-SFXed henchman. :(

On the plus side, this means that Bane could be more readily utilized in a future film without the taint of B+R, unlike Ivy or Freeze. (Not that I think Nolan, at least, would deign to use Ivy or Freeze anyway, for reasons given above.)
 
Aragorn said:
^ Well Neeson was basically repeating his supporting roles in Kingdom of Heaven and Gangs of New York, only in Batman Begins he got to return for the third act.
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And, to some extent, his role in Phantom Menace. He's basically turned into Sean Connery over the last decade, playing all those mentor roles Connery did in the 1980s and 1990s. I think in BB, the idea in his casting was to subvert his association with that sort of role. Which would explain why they were also after Mortensen, after he played Aragorn (any relation?).
 
I remember when the trades formally announced that Liam Neeson would be starring in Batman Begins... they announced him as Ra's al Ghul. Then, not even a day later, the trades (I think it was Variety or the Hollywood Reporter) corrected themselves and said Neeson was actually playing Ducard, much to the chagrin of fans everywhere.

Of course, this led to speculation that Neeson could actually be Ra's and that his Ducard persona was only a decoy, essentially ruining the "twist" of the film. It didn't quite matter, though, since the script for the film leaked anyway and any sort of secrecy that Nolan and Goyer were planning went right out of the window. I just found it funny how the casting process essentially spoiled the third act of the movie.
 
^ Yes, but they did save it a bit by casting a high-ish profile actor in Ken Wanatabe (who had just been Oscar nominated for The Last Samurai) as 'Ra's.' Cue lots of wailing fanboys, suddenly distracted by Ra's becoming Asian, rather than Arabic. Had they cast someone less well-known than Ken, the cat would truly have been well out of the bag.
 
Yeah. I remember a lot of complaining when Ken Watanabe was cast. I was kind of surprised he took the part, because it was so small, but it ended up working out well for him: Batman Begins was a hit, and his status was boosted (more people knew about him) and Nolan eventually ended up working with him again in a much larger part for Inception.

It's actually kind of funny, because Nolan re-hired two of the villains of Begins, decoy Ra's (Watanabe) and the Scarecrow (Cillian Murphy), and in Begins they didn't have any scenes together, but they did in Inception. Plus, Tom Hardy is playing a villain in The Dark Knight Rises -- Nolan definitely has a penchant for re-using actors in his movies, especially those that play the villain.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that starring as General Kuribayashi in Letters from Iwo Jima and as Katsumoto in The Last Samurai (and picking up a Best Supporting Actor nomination for it) did a lot more to boost Watanabe's status in North America than a four-minute part in Batman Begins.
 
^ Yeah, but I wish he'd re-use some more of the cast of Memento, not least of all Guy Pearce and Joe Pantalonio (though Mark Boone junior was in it and Batman Begins).

Nicky Katt had a supporting role in Insomnia and then an uncredited role as a cop in TDK.
 
Timby said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that starring as General Kuribayashi in Letters from Iwo Jima and as Katsumoto in The Last Samurai (and picking up a Best Supporting Actor nomination for it) did a lot more to boost Watanabe's status in North America than a four-minute part in Batman Begins.
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I meant after The Last Samurai. Not many people saw Letters from Iwo Jima, but a lot of people saw Batman Begins. Get what I'm saying?
 
I must have missed the bit where Watanabe does anything in Batman Begins.

More likely then 'his stature was raised' via the movie it's probable that Nolan just liked working wih the guy on one pic and roped him in to another.
 
Kegg said:
I must have missed the bit where Watanabe does anything in Batman Begins.

More likely then 'his stature was raised' via the movie it's probable that Nolan just liked working wih the guy on one pic and roped him in to another.
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I fully realize Nolan enjoyed working with Watanabe and re-hired him for Inception because he enjoys him as an actor. I was saying that despite Watanabe's small performance in Batman Begins at the very least it boosted his popularity thanks to appearing in a very successful blockbuster.
 
I have to admit that I was one of those fooled by the "deception" until I read the script and learned of the twist. He may have had minimal impact but he still had an impact in the film. That elaborate costume was pretty damn cool.
 
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