That's fine. Like I said, it's a silly theory meant to explain what's really a non-existent problem. I just like to have fun explaining stuff and connecting things.
"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)
- Thread starter JacksonArcher
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^No problem. I tend to invent the odd theory like that myself on occasion.
Just caught up in that most recent speculation - and I thought exactly the same thing (and wrote it down in my review in my blog the day after I watched the movie *lol*). Why should Blake make the connection, and nobody else? What's so special about him to see beyond everything in a way no one else does? That's actually one of my pet-peeves with this movie. If not show Blake as that blond boy (and I share the sentiment that he'd be to young), then why not mention some connection here that would have given Blake the final piece of the puzzle?
Given all the things that come out of the left field in this movie, Blake, Miranda's relationship with Bruce, Miranda getting power over Wayne Enterprises (why not Fox? Somehow must have missed something there), Catwoman's story that's more or less stand alone... and yes, the similarities to BB in terms of let's burn down Gotham City... And I won't even talk about Bruce's still mourning Rachel, his physical appearance at the beginning, the way his broken back just healed without further damage, and I don't quite know what to make of Alfred in this movie, either.
Somehow, it seemed to me as if TPTB tried to cram too many new details into that movie but somehow failed to actually put a new twist on it. I loved Bruce's story, and honestly, I'd have been perfectly happy if that had been the only focus of the movie.
Given all the things that come out of the left field in this movie, Blake, Miranda's relationship with Bruce, Miranda getting power over Wayne Enterprises (why not Fox? Somehow must have missed something there), Catwoman's story that's more or less stand alone... and yes, the similarities to BB in terms of let's burn down Gotham City... And I won't even talk about Bruce's still mourning Rachel, his physical appearance at the beginning, the way his broken back just healed without further damage, and I don't quite know what to make of Alfred in this movie, either.
Somehow, it seemed to me as if TPTB tried to cram too many new details into that movie but somehow failed to actually put a new twist on it. I loved Bruce's story, and honestly, I'd have been perfectly happy if that had been the only focus of the movie.
Honestly, the movies really don't reflect well on Gordon's abilities as a cop, especially when supercop Blake puts things together in one step instead of the multiple hints Gordon was given.
Gordon doesn't have Blake's little orphan insight into Bruce's/Batman's psyche, but he does know Bruce Wayne was orphaned as a young boy and that he comforted him at the station, so it would make sense for Wayne to build on that connection later in life by teaming with Gordon again and for him to be motivated to fight crime based on his childhood trauma.
He knows Bruce's parents were murdered by a man who was murdered by Carmine Falcone, the first crime boss Batman went after.
He knows Bruce disappeared right after the Joe Chill shooting and reappeared years later at the same time Batman first started fighting crime.
He knows Bruce heavily supported Harvey Dent and held fundraisers for him, and that Batman shared his respect for Dent.
He knows Bruce saved Coleman Reese's life (the man who was about to reveal Batman's identity). All you'd have to do was check who Reese worked for as an accountant (Wayne Enterprises) or just ask him some questions. At that point Reese didn't want to give up Bruce's name and Gordon doesn't want to out him, but just for curiosity's sake, you'd think he'd follow up. Plus, even with all the chaos following the Joker's terrorism, did no other cops follow up on this; not even Matthew Modine? I guess Gordon suppressed the investigation, which would look suspicious in and of itself.
He knows that Bruce disappeared into a secret chamber in his penthouse a minute before Batman showed up without any apparent entry, he knows that Batman dove out a window to save the daughter of Bruce Wayne's former housekeeper and someone who the press would see he was close to, and he knows that Batman called her "Rachel" by name and raced to save her instead of Harvey Dent, not knowing that Joker had pulled a switcheroo.
He knows that Batman stopped operating at the same time Bruce Wayne became a crippled recluse.
He knows that all those gadgets and vehicles would have to come from a company with military contracts and that Batman would have to be someone wealthy with lots of free time on his hands.
He knows that the Tumbler and the Bat-Pod were always heading in a certain direction when the police lost track of them (first toward Wayne Manor, and later toward the Wayne Enterprises lot at the Gotham docks).
Gordon's no Columbo, that's for sure. And that's before I add on the fact that he sent almost the entire Gotham police force into an underground trap, that he sent the only two DAs working on the largest case against the mob home with the two cops he had been told before by Dent were working for the mob themselves, that he partnered with someone who was a mob enforcer that he saw getting paid off right in front of him (yeah, he excused it by saying if he didn't work with corrupt cops he'd work alone, but that's pretty bad), and that he participated in a coverup and conspiracy. Harvey had every right to be pissed at him, even if he went about it in the completely wrong way (and Harvey wasn't a great guy even before going crazy either consider he was willing to torture to get a confession). Gordon's not a good cop in either ethics or ability, it's just that everyone else was so lousy he floated above the rest of the riffraff.
I mean, if we're gonna talk realistically, it's implausible that Bruce ever managed to keep his secret identity. When you have police helicopters and half the police squad after you as Bruce did during the car chase in Batman Begins, it's next to impossible to lose them. Even if you did, they'd almost certainly backtrack and track the Batmobile, and figure out that it had flown into the waterfall -- at which point there would likely be a search of the property the waterfall is on.
And that's not mentioning how unlikely it is that no one from the Pentagon would have noticed how similar the Batmobile on the news was to those proposed vehicle designs from Wayne Enterprises. Or that no other accountants would notice all those acts of embezzlement being committed by Bruce and Fox. Or that Wayne Enterprises would be allowed to build a nuclear energy source in the middle of downtown Gotham City.
Bottom line: Even for a director like Christopher Nolan, who values verisimilitude, there's a point where we have to suspend our disbelief.
Or to assume that Lucius Fox was bribing a lot of people to keep quiet.
And that's not mentioning how unlikely it is that no one from the Pentagon would have noticed how similar the Batmobile on the news was to those proposed vehicle designs from Wayne Enterprises. Or that no other accountants would notice all those acts of embezzlement being committed by Bruce and Fox. Or that Wayne Enterprises would be allowed to build a nuclear energy source in the middle of downtown Gotham City.
Bottom line: Even for a director like Christopher Nolan, who values verisimilitude, there's a point where we have to suspend our disbelief.
Or to assume that Lucius Fox was bribing a lot of people to keep quiet.
I've never understood the claim that Nolan's movies had or aimed at verisimilitude. There's a strong interest in avoiding anything that might be construed as campy, which isn't the same thing at all. And there's a tendency to incorporate reactionary views as premises. I suppose people who believe those premises might regard the movies as more realistic. But that still seems awfully imperceptive.
Thinking back, I can't recall how Batman was even supposed to fight crime except by interfering in the act, an impossible task. However could any criminals be tried and convicted by Batman's activities? Drab isn't realistic, any more than bright and colorful is childish. Except possibly in some people's minds.
Thinking back, I can't recall how Batman was even supposed to fight crime except by interfering in the act, an impossible task. However could any criminals be tried and convicted by Batman's activities? Drab isn't realistic, any more than bright and colorful is childish. Except possibly in some people's minds.
Gordon could have very easily put it all together if he wanted to. That's the thing, though. Gordon doesn't want to. He explicitly states that he doesn't care who Batman is. That's always the way it's been in the comics, too. Gordon doesn't know because he doesn't want to know. Once, when Batman offered to reveal his identity, Gordon told Batman that if he wanted to know, he already would.
Would also have given Gordon plausible deniability.
Also didn't Tim Drake get the Robin gig after working out Bruce Wayne was Batman?
It's been deduced that Blake is Dick,Tim and Todd's personalities and traits all rolled into one.
I think there also might be a little Terry McGinnis in there.
I think it really shows how much similarity there is in all those characters. The comics really just reinvented the character of "Robin" over the years. Without the continuity baggage it would probably be the same person, the same way others characters are reinterpreted in reboots.
In Blake I mostly see Dick and Tim. Very little, if any, of Jason. Probably because Jason had the shortest run. But there is more Dick Grayson than any of the others.
The role of Batman's younger sidekick, assistant, apprentice and potential replacement/successor is always going to evoke Robin. Because he historically is the first character to learn Batman's identity. He even predates the creation of Alfred.
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I just saw the movie a second time (didn't have anything better to do today!).
Bane's voice bothered me less the second time around, but there were STILL scenes where, already know what happens in the movie, I have no idea what he's saying. Actually not just him, a few times. The sound mixing doesn't seem very good in the movie, the background noise and score overpower the dialogue too much.
Bane's voice bothered me less the second time around, but there were STILL scenes where, already know what happens in the movie, I have no idea what he's saying. Actually not just him, a few times. The sound mixing doesn't seem very good in the movie, the background noise and score overpower the dialogue too much.
Average/Fair.
I didn't even remember Hardy was Bane until the rematch with Batman but the character was too much of a mix between that of the comics and the films' Ra's and Joker. Gordon-Levitt and Hathaway weren't as bad as I feared but were too lacking in appeal, especially enough to make Batman so trusting/sympathetic to the latter and it felt unconvincing that Bruce would give up being Batman so quickly for so long (for one thing Joker could have escaped or other villains could have become "inspired") and less convincing that he would then return so easily.
I didn't anticipate Tate being Talia but that was in part because, until she agreed to safeguard the weapon, I thought she was Catwoman. The twist was OK but then we don't know much about Bane's actual past although it's implied to have still been similar to what we thought we knew.
I didn't even remember Hardy was Bane until the rematch with Batman but the character was too much of a mix between that of the comics and the films' Ra's and Joker. Gordon-Levitt and Hathaway weren't as bad as I feared but were too lacking in appeal, especially enough to make Batman so trusting/sympathetic to the latter and it felt unconvincing that Bruce would give up being Batman so quickly for so long (for one thing Joker could have escaped or other villains could have become "inspired") and less convincing that he would then return so easily.
I didn't anticipate Tate being Talia but that was in part because, until she agreed to safeguard the weapon, I thought she was Catwoman. The twist was OK but then we don't know much about Bane's actual past although it's implied to have still been similar to what we thought we knew.
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^ No, just the prisoners from Blackgate Prison.
I don't think Arkham is ever mentioned after Batman Begins, was it? Maybe it never reopened and the inmates were relocated to Blackgate.
The one they finally decided on looks the best.
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