"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Samurai8472]

I don't see how it could be Alfred's fantasy. We clearly see Bruce seated at a table with Selina; when did Alfred ever meet her?


Lastly - did anyone else notice that Alfred's line from the trailers - "I promised your mum and father I'd take care of you, and I've failed." (I'm paraphrasing) was absent in the film?

Alfred meets Selina when he thinks she's one of the maids at Wayne Manor.


Most people are noticing a few things were cut. Such as Selina going down Gotham City Hall steps on the Batpod.


It was most likely cut because the stuntwoman crashed into an IMAX camera going down the steps.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WidV5ypIcd8[/YT]

 

[Hound of UIster]

The Dark Knight will be remembered as one of the greatest films of all time. The Dark Knight Rises will be remembered as a really great one, maybe one of the best of 2012.

It felt a little bit like Return of the Jedi to me. A mostly really good movie with a few things that hold it back from being as amazing as it's big brothers.

More like Godfather III or Superman Returns.

 

[jbny67]

Lastly - did anyone else notice that Alfred's line from the trailers - "I promised your mum and father I'd take care of you, and I've failed." (I'm paraphrasing) was absent in the film?

That was his dialogue at the funeral at the end.

 

[davejames]

Still, the idea that Nolan's Batman has a beginning, middle and end and the guy didn't Batman for decades without greying his hair is something I'm pretty comfortable with.

Yeah the idea of him having a limited career I'm okay with, and makes total sense for a real world Batman. But no matter how the movie tries to rationalize it, the idea of him going into hiding for 8 years, or retiring after one "final battle" (against Bane, really?) just rubs me the wrong way.

As long as there are people being preyed upon by criminal scum, and men abusing innocent women and children somewhere in the city, Batman should be driven to be out there DOING something about it. He shouldn't just be like "eh, the police can handle that small stuff; I'm just going to sulk in my mansion for awhile, or worry only about the crazy supervillains when they emerge... and afterwards I'll hang it all up and go sip martinis in Italy with my new girlfriend."

Say huh?? To me that is even more egregious and out of character than how Hal Jordan was portrayed in GL, or Superman in SR. And I don't know so many other Batman fans seem to be okay with it.

 

[Klaus]

Gave it a good.

Saw it late last night, enjoyed it but didn't think it was table-thumping good... it's a very deliberate movie, remarkably unhurried for a superhero flick. It's an interesting wrap-up to the trilogy, it hits a few popular notes... but it just didn't particularly engage me on any level. To be honest, other than Ledger and Caine nothing in any of the three impressed me that much beyond a certain amount of coolness.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Still, the idea that Nolan's Batman has a beginning, middle and end and the guy didn't Batman for decades without greying his hair is something I'm pretty comfortable with.

Yeah the idea of him having a limited career I'm okay with, and makes total sense for a real world Batman. But no matter how the movie tries to rationalize it, the idea of him going into hiding for 8 years, or retiring after one "final battle" (against Bane, really?) just rubs me the wrong way.

As long as there are people being preyed upon by criminal scum, and men abusing innocent women and children somewhere in the city, Batman should be driven to be out there DOING something about it. He shouldn't just be like "eh, the police can handle that small stuff; I'm just going to sulk in my mansion for awhile, or worry only about the crazy supervillains when they emerge... and afterwards I'll hang it all up and go sip martinis in Italy with my new girlfriend."

Say huh?? To me that is even more egregious and out of character than how Hal Jordan was portrayed in GL, or Superman in SR. And I don't know so many other Batman fans seem to be okay with it.

I agree absolutely.

Bruce will always fight. He'll continue fighting either like in DKR, die and pass on the legacy like in Batman 666 or mentor the next Batman. But he'll never quit. To him it's his life.

 

[sonak]

Hmmm... oddly underwhelming. It was good, but not great. It was the least of the trilogy. Three stars for me.


On to specifics:


-Nolan clearly abandons even the faux-realism of the previous two here. This movie was way over the top in terms of its plot. Clearly into comic book territory here, rather than the almost "crime drama" feel of TDK.

-That first fight between Batman and Bane
I know the outcome had to be what it was for the plot, but how does Batman lose to Bane? In "Knightfall" Batman was physically and mentally exhausted when they fought, and Bane was much bigger.

Here, a much fresher Batman loses to basically a... really strong guy in a mask. Why would Bane have better fighting skills than Batman if they received comparable training? Also, why does Batman turn into an idiot during the fight? He has a UTILITY BELT. When he first realizes that he's overmatched, he should pull out his batarangs, concussion grenades, shurikens, whatever he's got. Instead, he weakly pulls out some flashy things at the very end that just fizzle and make bright lights.


And yet later, after being "broken" and in a prison for a while, THEN he comes back to fight Bane more effectively. Sure.



-for a Batman movie, there's not a lot of Batman in it.


-Anne Hathaway was great, Michael Caine was terrific, as was Gary Oldman. I like that Gordon got let in on the secret finally.


-Bane was very menacing and effective. I still missed about 20-25% of his dialogue, though.



-For all the rumors about the political undertones, Bane turns out to be a nihilistic terrorist thug. What if they'd skipped the bomb plot and made his "revolution thing" genuine instead of a lie to make Gothamites dance for his amusement?




-ok, that end scene. Is that supposed to be Alfred's fantasy, or did Bruce really escape? And if so, how?

So many people overlooked the scene between Bruce and Alfred, earlier in the movie. Alfred said bruce wasn't the batman he used to be, that he had been out of the game for 8 years, he wasn't the same man, couldn't just throw the suit back on. So Bruce went anyways, in over his head, and was owned by Bane. Then during his time in the prison, bruce gets his A game back, not only physically but mentally, he "rises" from the depths of where he'd been. It was such a powerful point in this movie, and seemed to go over alot of peoples' heads.

no, I "got" the IDEA of it, it didn't "go over my head," because it was obvious from a dramatic perspective what they were trying to do.

But from a logic perspective it doesn't work. Bruce should be in WORSE shape to fight Bane the second time, since he was badly wounded and then tossed into a prison. And "rust" or not, Batman should have at least been able to escape from Bane in the first fight when it was clear he was losing. Again, he's got all these gadgets and weapons on his belt. Why's he forcing himself to fight Bane hand to hand? Misplaced chivalry or sense of fair play?

 

[CaptainCanada]

The point of the movie was that Bruce managed to break that self-destructive mindset (something that's really necessitated by the comics needing to keep him around permanently), having succeeded in saving the city.

 

[sonak]

-ok, that end scene. Is that supposed to be Alfred's fantasy, or did Bruce really escape? And if so, how?

I don't see how it could be Alfred's fantasy. We clearly see Bruce seated at a table with Selina; when did Alfred ever meet her?

Too, even if Alfred did see her photo on a computer screen in the Batcave, he has no way of knowing what Bruce's relationship with her would be like as Alfred spends most of the film out of the action.

Lastly - did anyone else notice that Alfred's line from the trailers - "I promised your mum and father I'd take care of you, and I've failed." (I'm paraphrasing) was absent in the film?

OK, so they are all there at the cafe. That's cool, a happy ending, anyway. I just didn't catch the part about him escaping with the plane-thing on autopilot. Plus, Nolan is the "inception" guy, so I thought maybe he was going the "this is Alfred's fantasy" route. Caine's expression in that scene just made me think it was a daydream.

 

[Kegg]

The point of the movie was that Bruce managed to break that self-destructive mindset (something that's really necessitated by the comics needing to keep him around permanently), having succeeded in saving the city.

Just so.

I mean, Batman the character in Dark Knight Returns may be, as Hound of Ulster says, a guy who just never quits, but this Batman is someone who needs to quit because it's destroying him.

I get the objection about him being completely out of the picture over eight years and not involving himself with even relatively minor criminals, but in the world of the movie replacing his vigilante myth of Batman with the white knight hero myth of Harvey Dent seems to render him unimportant.

 

[Set Harth]

Plus, Nolan is the "inception" guy, so I thought maybe he was going the "this is Alfred's fantasy" route. Caine's expression in that scene just made me think it was a daydream.

According to Caine, all his Inception scenes take place in reality.

 

[sonak]

Plus, Nolan is the "inception" guy, so I thought maybe he was going the "this is Alfred's fantasy" route. Caine's expression in that scene just made me think it was a daydream.

According to Caine, all his Inception scenes take place in reality.

is that his interpretation or something he knows from writer/director intent?

If it's the former, it's no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion on it.

 

[indianatrekker26]

Hmmm... oddly underwhelming. It was good, but not great. It was the least of the trilogy. Three stars for me.


On to specifics:


-Nolan clearly abandons even the faux-realism of the previous two here. This movie was way over the top in terms of its plot. Clearly into comic book territory here, rather than the almost "crime drama" feel of TDK.

-That first fight between Batman and Bane
I know the outcome had to be what it was for the plot, but how does Batman lose to Bane? In "Knightfall" Batman was physically and mentally exhausted when they fought, and Bane was much bigger.

Here, a much fresher Batman loses to basically a... really strong guy in a mask. Why would Bane have better fighting skills than Batman if they received comparable training? Also, why does Batman turn into an idiot during the fight? He has a UTILITY BELT. When he first realizes that he's overmatched, he should pull out his batarangs, concussion grenades, shurikens, whatever he's got. Instead, he weakly pulls out some flashy things at the very end that just fizzle and make bright lights.


And yet later, after being "broken" and in a prison for a while, THEN he comes back to fight Bane more effectively. Sure.



-for a Batman movie, there's not a lot of Batman in it.


-Anne Hathaway was great, Michael Caine was terrific, as was Gary Oldman. I like that Gordon got let in on the secret finally.


-Bane was very menacing and effective. I still missed about 20-25% of his dialogue, though.



-For all the rumors about the political undertones, Bane turns out to be a nihilistic terrorist thug. What if they'd skipped the bomb plot and made his "revolution thing" genuine instead of a lie to make Gothamites dance for his amusement?




-ok, that end scene. Is that supposed to be Alfred's fantasy, or did Bruce really escape? And if so, how?

So many people overlooked the scene between Bruce and Alfred, earlier in the movie. Alfred said bruce wasn't the batman he used to be, that he had been out of the game for 8 years, he wasn't the same man, couldn't just throw the suit back on. So Bruce went anyways, in over his head, and was owned by Bane. Then during his time in the prison, bruce gets his A game back, not only physically but mentally, he "rises" from the depths of where he'd been. It was such a powerful point in this movie, and seemed to go over alot of peoples' heads.

no, I "got" the IDEA of it, it didn't "go over my head," because it was obvious from a dramatic perspective what they were trying to do.

But from a logic perspective it doesn't work. Bruce should be in WORSE shape to fight Bane the second time, since he was badly wounded and then tossed into a prison. And "rust" or not, Batman should have at least been able to escape from Bane in the first fight when it was clear he was losing. Again, he's got all these gadgets and weapons on his belt. Why's he forcing himself to fight Bane hand to hand? Misplaced chivalry or sense of fair play?

Well, he did try to pull out some of his bag o' tricks from his belt, but Bane saw through it all, because he knew the same tricks. But it all worked for me. i loved the idea of it, because it was such a great nod to the Knightfall storyarc. Due to Batman doing the same thing, running himself ragged against Bane.
One thing i didn't care for was how bane gets taken out, just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Just got back from watching the movie again. This time I was migrane free and saw it in IMAX. It was nice to have the theatre rumble as the BAT took off. I've had my fill for now and I eagerly await the trilogy on Blu-Ray. I still didn't catch how Blake got instructions to find the batcave though, because the ending was so rushed. I'm also undecided as to whether or not he'll take up being the new Batman or if he'll make his own identity. It could go either way. And how will he keep the batcave running without Wayne's resources? Or did I miss something there too?

That first fight between Batman and Bane
I know the outcome had to be what it was for the plot, but how does Batman lose to Bane? In "Knightfall" Batman was physically and mentally exhausted when they fought, and Bane was much bigger.

Don't forget, Bruce was crippled. He had that leg brace, but I'm guessing that that could only go so far. I think his subduing Bane at the end was due in part to sheer determination.

And about Bane... The reasoning behind his mask is a bit contrived, but I'll accept it. Gotta have some sort of gimmick for your supervillain.

Quinn from Dexter was in it too! He was the cop who blew out the bridge.

So that's who that was. I couldn't place him, and I watch Dexter.

Sure, there were some groaners in the plot development - Bane's opening capture of Pavel is eyebrow-raisingly silly, even by the loose standards of Nolan's Batman films...

I thought that the whole intro with Bane was epic. And didn't that physicist look like Timothy Dalton?

Oh, yeah, and Michelle Pfieffer is my standard by which I judge Catwomen. Anne Hathaway was no Michelle Pfieffer, but then she didn't seem to have half as much material as Catwoman did in Batman Returns. She's almost Rachel Dawes only a jewel thief instead of whatever Rachel Dawes was again.

Michelle Pfieffer was never my ideal Catwoman, so I don't find her hard to top.

Lastly - did anyone else notice that Alfred's line from the trailers - "I promised your mum and father I'd take care of you, and I've failed." (I'm paraphrasing) was absent in the film?

That was his dialogue at the funeral at the end.

I know what line he's talking about and I didn't notice it either. It was't the line from the funeral.

I just didn't catch the part about him escaping with the plane-thing on autopilot.

I was wondering about that too. How and when did he escape? On the second viewing though, I just accepted that he ejected and got away before the Bat got too far out to sea.

 

[Warped9]

Just got back from seeing this...

I think this a damn fine film, but I do say that with some small caveats depending on what you might be expecting. Nolan has told an interesting story that didn't really need the Batman or any comic book superhero to tell it. But in using Batman perhaps he reaches a broader audience in the short term and in the long run.

I certainly didn't have any problem following this story unlike some others have claimed. And while long I thought it was decently paced and didn't really feel like 2hrs.,45mins.

In context of how Nolan wanted to tell his story over three films I think TDKR works quite well. I thought the acting was quite good overall from everyone involved. It also works well enough as a standalone piece.

Tom Hardy's Bane isn't as memorable as Heath Ledger's Joker, but Bane is damn chilling nonetheless. And I'm pretty sure I understood near everything he said in the movie. Anne Hathaway's Catwoman works really well and I could easily see her in a solo feature. For me she blows away anyone else who has played the role live-action.

The ending is open ended in so many ways---nothing is really off the table for a possible followup.

Here's the caveat as I see it. Just as The Dark Knight Returns was Frank Miller's take on Batman and his world, The Dark Knight Rises is just as much Chris Nolan's take on it. This Batman, as well as Alfred and Jim Gordon, are not the ones from the comics or the animated series or straight-to-video animated features. There are similarities yet there are also marked differences.

Your mileage may vary depending on what you're expecting.

In the end I vote a qualified Good rather than Excellent simply because I would rather have seen the Batman, Alfred and Jim Gordon from the comics and animated series and features. That Batman could be hurt, but wasn't emotionally fragile or defeated. He also certainly wouldn't have taken the rap for something he didn't do. I also don't see the familiar Jim Gordon being a part of such a lie and coverup, particularly for such an extended period of time. I also don't think Alfred would ever walk out on Bruce, ever.

The other issue I had was some of the back story and setup. Batman/Bruce goes into hiding and seclusion after the death of Harvey Dent? I don't think so. He might have accepted being an outlaw, but he would have continued operating.

Part of the issue here is that Nolan uses broad strokes to set up and tell his story rather than use more nuance and detail. I can understand why he did this, perhaps to up the stakes emotionally for the characters and to keep things simpler for the audience. I would have preferred more nuance in some of these elements.

 

[davejames]

I thought the first showdown with Bane was pretty good actually. It was brutal and violent and hard to watch, just like you would expect it to be. And maybe Batman should have been better prepared, but he (like us) probably didn't expect Bane to be so hard to take down. Since he basically looked like just another big, musclebound stooge.

I do think Nolan probably made Bane a little TOO tough and unstoppable though. Despite his size, we should still have seen Batman doing more damage than he did, with the armor he was wearing and the powerful punches he was throwing.

The movie basically made it look like he was fighting Hulk or Superman or something, which seems a bit far-fetched.

 

[Warped9]

TDKR also plays on a wholly different level than The Avengers or any other superhero flick. Nolan touches on bigger ideas and can leave you something to think about. His characters suffer and there's an edge that just isn't in other superhero films that are always "just for fun."

 

[Starbreaker]

This film met and exceeded my expectations. I thought Catwoman was going to be silly, but she was used perfectly. I thought that Bane wouldn't stand a candle to the Joker, but Tom Hardy was great. Michael Caine turned in a powerful performance. I was actually shocked that Miranda was working with Bane. I loved this movie.

 

[NebulaClassGuy]

I do think Nolan probably made Bane a little TOO tough and unstoppable though. Despite his size, we should still have seen Batman doing more damage than he did, with the armor he was wearing and the powerful punches he was throwing.

The movie basically made it look like he was fighting Hulk or Superman or something, which seems a bit far-fetched.

This is actually how Bane is supposed to be... he basically is a hulk. As has been pointed out, in the comics he paralyzed Bruce Wayne, and in the animated series, Bane was so strong that even Superman was in awe that Batman had survived encounters with him, and it actually took the power of Superman to deal Bane a blow and put him in his place.

So hearing that he's so strong in this film makes me feel a LOT better about the depiction of him, since I didn't think Tom Hardy was that great a choice to play him, from a purely physical standpoint.

 

[JD]

Just got back from watching the movie again. This time I was migrane free and saw it in IMAX. It was nice to have the theatre rumble as the BAT took off. I've had my fill for now and I eagerly await the trilogy on Blu-Ray. I still didn't catch how Blake got instructions to find the batcave though, because the ending was so rushed. I'm also undecided as to whether or not he'll take up being the new Batman or if he'll make his own identity. It could go either way. And how will he keep the batcave running without Wayne's resources? Or did I miss something there too?

That first fight between Batman and Bane
I know the outcome had to be what it was for the plot, but how does Batman lose to Bane? In "Knightfall" Batman was physically and mentally exhausted when they fought, and Bane was much bigger.

Don't forget, Bruce was crippled. He had that leg brace, but I'm guessing that that could only go so far. I think his subduing Bane at the end was due in part to sheer determination.

And about Bane... The reasoning behind his mask is a bit contrived, but I'll accept it. Gotta have some sort of gimmick for your supervillain.

Quinn from Dexter was in it too! He was the cop who blew out the bridge.

So that's who that was. I couldn't place him, and I watch Dexter.

I thought that the whole intro with Bane was epic. And didn't that physicist look like Timothy Dalton?

Michelle Pfieffer was never my ideal Catwoman, so I don't find her hard to top.

I didn't realize so many people liked Pfieffer's Catwoman so much. The last time I watched the movie, I wasn't that impressed with her. I thought she was ok, but i definitely like the animated series', and Arkham games' take on her a lot better. I haven't seen the movie yet, but when I do I'll be judging Hathaway based on those, not Pfieffer.