"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[O'Dib]

Ras didn't wanna destroy Gotham to rid it of crime, that's ridiculous. It was to strike a killing blow to American Imperialism. These people think global.

Actually, the League of Shadows under Ra's DID want to destroy Gotham because of its decadence and corruption; Ra's blatantly says so, and talks about the League also having been responsible for the destruction or downfall of other decadent and corrupt locations/societies, such as Rome.

I guess I'll have to take a look at BB again, but as far as I know, decadence is the lifestyle of rich people, and corruption is the job description of politicians. Most often, what with the circle-jerk between the two, neither is technically crime.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I looked in my Batman Encyclopedia to see if the name Blake has ever been used before. In the long history I knew there had to be. There are a few minor one off characters of no significance.

But one stood out. In a 1952 comic Robin uses the alias of Don Blake to disguise himself as an actor. Fun coincidence.

 

[CaptainCanada]

The more I think about it its unlikely Bruce retired immediately after TDK. Maybe 6 months to a year at most. He did rebuild the Batcave. Also for the public to buy into the deception G0rdon and Batman created they would have had to play it out for some time. With the police trying to relentlessly capture the fugitive. With Batman perhaps almost in a Green Hornet role. Appearing to be a crminal to end his "competition".

Blake says that Batman hasn't been seen by anyone since the night Harvey Dent died, as I recall (same with the newscast when he returns).

 

[Dick Whitman]

ok, He could have been active but not seen. Stealth is one of his greatest skills. Maybe he went back to the early days of only wearing a mask, like when he visited Gordon in the hospital. Maybe...

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Really lovely Dark Knight Trilogy retrospective trailer.

 

[Gotham Central]

Here's my question: Was the limp psychosomatic? Or is a specific injury from TDK? Cause despite having worn out all his joints, the doctor says nothing of the leg, that I recall. And the prosthetic seems to lose significance later on.

I have had the very same thought. He was emotionally and psychologically crippled. It took a real injury at the hands of Bane to over come all that.

The limp could also be the result of the fall he takes at the end of TDK. That same fall kills Dent but its likely that he landed badly and really hurt himself.

 

[Warped9]

Really lovely Dark Knight Trilogy retrospective trailer.

No question, when the trilogy is released all together on BluRay I'll have to pick it up. Even with quibbles Batman has never been done better live-action.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

No one answered my questions...

 

[Warped9]

No one answered my questions...

Yes, someone did a little further upthread, on the previous page I think.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Thanks I didn't see. The first answer was a stretch.

3. This was inside an artificially lit tunnel.

But the chase was at night, hence the spotlights. But the heist happened during the day.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Thanks I didn't see. The first answer was a stretch.

3. This was inside an artificially lit tunnel.

But the chase was at night, hence the spotlights. But the heist happened during the day.

I noticed this too - I just assumed they hit the stock exchange near end of day, so it was dusk, then night.

 

[Sci]

I'd definitely assume the Joker would have played a role had Heath survived - for one thing, unlike Ra's al Ghul and Two-Face, he didn't die at the end of the movie.

^ Including the Joker in a priosn break would have been problematic because they wouldn't have been able to have him in make-up.

He'd be part of the prison break, probably not show his face (but hear his voice) and he'd then appear some time after in Joker costume. Who's to say how the anarchist would really take Bane? He could fight Bane because that's kind of how he rolls. We could even be in a situation where the Batman kind of needs Joker in the Bane thing (in the sense we saw him need Catwoman in this movie). Lot of ways the movie could have played the Joker's role had he been there.

It seems to me that the simplest way to fit the Joker into the plot of The Dark Knight Rises would have been to replace Talia's role at the end (the person secretly involved in everything, the secret point of Bane's plot, and then the one driving the bomb to try to keep it out of Batman's hands) with the Joker. Say, Bane reveals that his plot all along was to foment the kind of chaos in Gotham that the Joker would take advantage of -- to be the man who deliberately unleashes the rabid dog again -- and that the wanton death and destruction is something the Joker wants to preserve.

It would also nicely dovetail with the idea that Bane was kicked out of the League of Shadows; the League's goal is to "restore harmony" by taking down the world's most powerful and corrupt power centers like Gotham, but if Bane's goal is to unleash the Joker's special brand of anarchy, that explains why he'd be kicked out.

As it stands, Bane's and Talia's motivations don't quite make sense, I think. We're told they want to bring harmony by bringing down the corrupt, and yet they still want to destroy Gotham even after bringing down its corrupt aristocracy. It would have been fixed by something as simple a line as, "See how corrupt Gotham is? They let their plutocrats rule with impunity -- and when I bring down the powerful, the people become just as corrupt as their former oppressors! Gotham must burn." Or some such.

 

[Greg Cox]

I have had the very same thought. He was emotionally and psychologically crippled. It took a real injury at the hands of Bane to over come all that.

The limp could also be the result of the fall he takes at the end of TDK. That same fall kills Dent but its likely that he landed badly and really hurt himself.

That's what I assumed. He and Dent take a nasty tumble. Afterwards, Batman manages to climb onto his bike and zoom off, but that's the last we see of him as Batman, so it's very possible his knee got wiped out there.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'd definitely assume the Joker would have played a role had Heath survived - for one thing, unlike Ra's al Ghul and Two-Face, he didn't die at the end of the movie.

^ Including the Joker in a priosn break would have been problematic because they wouldn't have been able to have him in make-up.

He'd be part of the prison break, probably not show his face (but hear his voice) and he'd then appear some time after in Joker costume. Who's to say how the anarchist would really take Bane? He could fight Bane because that's kind of how he rolls. We could even be in a situation where the Batman kind of needs Joker in the Bane thing (in the sense we saw him need Catwoman in this movie). Lot of ways the movie could have played the Joker's role had he been there.

It seems to me that the simplest way to fit the Joker into the plot of The Dark Knight Rises would have been to replace Talia's role at the end (the person secretly involved in everything, the secret point of Bane's plot, and then the one driving the bomb to try to keep it out of Batman's hands) with the Joker. Say, Bane reveals that his plot all along was to foment the kind of chaos in Gotham that the Joker would take advantage of -- to be the man who deliberately unleashes the rabid dog again -- and that the wanton death and destruction is something the Joker wants to preserve.

It would also nicely dovetail with the idea that Bane was kicked out of the League of Shadows; the League's goal is to "restore harmony" by taking down the world's most powerful and corrupt power centers like Gotham, but if Bane's goal is to unleash the Joker's special brand of anarchy, that explains why he'd be kicked out.

As it stands, Bane's and Talia's motivations don't quite make sense, I think. We're told they want to bring harmony by bringing down the corrupt, and yet they still want to destroy Gotham even after bringing down its corrupt aristocracy. It would have been fixed by something as simple a line as, "See how corrupt Gotham is? They let their plutocrats rule with impunity -- and when I bring down the powerful, the people become just as corrupt as their former oppressors! Gotham must burn." Or some such.

I said this already, but, despite what she claims, Talia actually has very little in common with her father in terms of what the League's purposes are. She comes to Gotham primarily to get vengeance on Bruce, using the pretense of finishing her father's work as a means to that ultimate end.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Greg was John Blake's age given in the script?

 

[Greg Cox]

Greg was John Blake's age given in the script?

I can't remember. The movie had already started filming, and the part had already been cast, by the time I got involved, so I always pictured Joseph Gordon-Lewitt in the part, and wrote Blake accordingly.

In general, movie scripts tend not to specify the exact ages of characters unless it's important to the plot for some reason.

"They need to kill you before you turn eighteen and inherit the kingdom . . . ."

 

[Set Harth]

The Joker just wanted Batman dead.

That's what he led the assorted criminals to believe, but from his dialogue and actions later, we see that wasn't necessarily the case.

 

[CaptainCanada]

As it stands, Bane's and Talia's motivations don't quite make sense, I think. We're told they want to bring harmony by bringing down the corrupt, and yet they still want to destroy Gotham even after bringing down its corrupt aristocracy. It would have been fixed by something as simple a line as, "See how corrupt Gotham is? They let their plutocrats rule with impunity -- and when I bring down the powerful, the people become just as corrupt as their former oppressors! Gotham must burn." Or some such.

The aristocracy was never their target. Ra's and the League regarded the whole city as the problem, whether through participation or acquiesence (hence, Bane using the freed criminals as labour force, even though they are also among the biggest offenders). The original plan in the first movie involved destroying the entire population. Bane just turns one segment against another as part of his plan for slow destruction. Talia and Bane's actions are entirely in line with what Ra's al Ghul wanted before (amplified by their desire to avenge him).

Replacing Talia with the Joker discards the whole thematic point of the movie, the return to where it all started.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

I enjoyed the movie quite a bit but the middle part dragged too much for me. I feel Nolan tried to do too much. If you think about he, he tried to cram his versions of Knightfall, Dark Knight Returns, and No Man's Land into one movie (!).

 

[Set Harth]

How did i go from the middle of a business day at the Stock Market to pitch dark once Bats appears on his bike? Did his power gun control the sun too?

Simple. That sequence took place on Ryloth.