The Dark Knight = OVERRATED

[Reverend]

If I've said it once, I've said it a billion times: "overrated" and "underrated" are entirely subjective terms and thus utterly irrelevant to a discussion on quality.

Isn't quality itself subjective?

Partially, but not entirely. There are certain things that are demonstrably objective. To make an extreme example: no matter which way you cut it, 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' is a quantitatively superior film compared to 'Battlefield Earth'.

The idea that anything is over or under rated presupposes that there is a fixed point, or consensus at which something (or indeed anything) is "rated", which is just spurious nonsense. What person really means when they say this is "I like/dislike this thing more/less than an arbitrary group of people."
It's mostly just an excuse to feign a controversial opinion. As if having a differing taste is something notable.

 

[sidious618]

I find that Nolan's Batman films are really the only visually interesting comic book films. So many seem to just be point and shot with the exact same type of shots and beats. Nolan's films, while flawed, have a lot more going on.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Does the OP have anything to say about the actual film itself?

 

[Ethros]

It's a good movie, but I just hate the stuff with the two boats near the end. Really corny concept and cheesy acting from the people on those ships.

And not knocking TDK, but I prefer Begins.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

So I have seen this film and the film is good but not great but I am personally aghast and surprised by how much praise and worship this film got. the film was deemed so good and so great that I gave it a chance and I saw it and wasn't blown away. in fact I am confused by all the ..oh my gosh the film is so fantasic like most people were saying..really?

I dont get what makes the film great besides all the ledger thing and even he was overhyped as the joker because he died. (RIP)

I also wondered what the outcome would have been if Heath Ledger had not died. I doubt this film will be so talked about or so excessively praised.Its like people forgot batman was in the film. great films are not because of one character , a great film is because of an ensemble cast not one character carrying the film.

I hope I don't get that much hate here but I am sorry the dark knight is just overrated, I think people gush about the film because it is the cool and hip thing to do and it atomically means you are in the cool guys club, its sad because I felt batman begins was better. I know in the comic world it has become BLASPHEMY to say another superhero film is better than the dark knight when in reality many superhero films are much better including batman begins.

this film also has one of the worst portrayal of a leading heroine and a one dimensional villain who was just too perfect that he came of as a mary sue character.

Give me Tim Burton's Batman any day . Burton did batman so much better unlike Nolan whose directing is so one dimensional and bland that it makes my head hurt.

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it's definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don't believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone's opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.




Joking aside. I would love you here your thoughts on the actual film itself. The actor's portrayals, the story, the effects, the characters, the editing, the pacing, the writing, the directing. You know these kinds of things that can make or break a movie.

 

[Silvercrest]

If I've said it once, I've said it a billion times: "overrated" and "underrated" are entirely subjective terms and thus utterly irrelevant to a discussion on quality.

Isn't quality itself subjective?

Not in my opinion.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

I think that the film was the most faithful to the comics (With the exception of Bruce using something other than the mansion/Batcave as his base). The Dark Knight Rises-although based on some 90's stories-didn't quite feel right, especially since a lot of it takes place during the day, whereas Batman's element IMO has always been the "night". The plot-especially the climax- also felt a bit too large scale-Batman's more street level IMO.

 

[BillJ]

Overrated or underrated... all that matters is whether I like certain movie or not.

 

[DeMilburn]

I liked Batman Begins over TDK. Something felt off about TDK. The tragedy of Heath Ledger has something to do with it for me.

ETA: Not overrated though.

I feel you tay. batman begins was better and it felt like a more organic film. with the dark knight it was more about heath ledger's joker than the film. once you remove the joker form the film it becomes forgettable at least in my personal opinion.

good film but great film. not a chance to me.

Sorry. I wasnt gonna comment on this thread as I am of the opinion that everyone has their own opinion and not all tastes are suited. But the sentance above, "if you take the joker out of the film it becomes forgettable".... well yeah! as hes the main villan. If hes not in the film then all it is is Batman beating up a bunch of gangsters. Comments like that just come off as stupid because he IS in the film. I understand if you say the way hes portrayed is wrong, or hyped up, or if you thought the role of the joker was pivital or not. But by saying it becomes forgettable if hes not in it makes no sense cause he influences everything in the film. Without him there is no Two face, no death of Harveys girlfriend (which WAS a good thing haha) no promotion for Jim Gordon to commissioner, etc etc. Its like saying take hannibal lector out of the silence of the lambs its not as good!

Also, just as my opinion, the Dark Knight is one of the best films ever made, yes it has flaws! But it is just awesome!

 

[suarezguy]

I had some problems with TDK. Ledger was good but not great (overall not better than Scarecrow or Ra's or Spidey's Dr. Octopus, let alone Hannibal Lecter), it felt unrealistic that Joker and Batman wouldn't have met in the year between BB and TDK and Batman choosing to take responsibility for the killings to save Dent's reputation felt forced.
Although it's true to some or most of the comics, I thought it was a little pretentious to give the Joker multiple/no true background (although I did really like the second story he told and prefer to think something like it actually did happen).
I also think it's ironic that the movie focuses so much more on Joker and Dent and is praised when Batman Returns has been heavily criticized for focusing more on the villains than hero.

 

[DeMilburn]

I had some problems with TDK. Ledger was good but not great (overall not better than Scarecrow or Ra's or Spidey's Dr. Octopus, let alone Hannibal Lecter), it felt unrealistic that Joker and Batman wouldn't have met in the year between BB and TDK and Batman choosing to take responsibility for the killings to save Dent's reputation felt forced.
Although it's true to some or most of the comics, I thought it was a little pretentious to give the Joker multiple/no true background (although I did really like the second story he told and prefer to think something like it actually did happen).
I also think it's ironic that the movie focuses so much more on Joker and Dent and is praised when Batman Returns has been heavily criticized for focusing more on the villains than hero.

Dont understand what you mean by the pretentious remark about not giving the joker a backgound? Thats very much like the comics! There has been various stories told about how the joker became the joker, but DC comics have never said which is true his hostory has always been a Mystery!

 

[Gojira]

I am one that enjoys Batman Begins more than TDK. Ledger was great as the Joker but my problem with the movie is that it feels a little bloated and went on too long. By the time they get to the boat scene I was getting anxious for them to warp it up. I think Begins is an example of tighter story telling and TDK needed some trimming and editing. It starts out well but ty the time Havey turns himself in it started getting to muddled for my tastes.

 

[DeMilburn]

I am one that enjoys Batman Begins more than TDK. Ledger was great as the Joker but my problem with the movie is that it feels a little bloated and went on too long. By the time they get to the boat scene I was getting anxious for them to warp it up. I think Begins is an example of tighter story telling and TDK needed some trimming and editing. It starts out well but ty the time Havey turns himself in it started getting to muddled for my tastes.

I feel that way about the dark knight rises. Too bloated wanted to get too much in there and could have ended a long time earlier. Still like the film though.

 

[Gov Kodos]

'Batman and Robin' will one day be looked upon as the greatest Batman film of our age second only to Adam West's Batman. The Nolan films will simply be a footnote in the long line of films that portrayed white American males' fear of emasculation and displacement by POC.

 

[Jax]

the ledger thing and even he was overhyped as the joker because he died.

The hype was coming in berfore he died and also ^ that comment can go right in the bin where it belongs. TDK was the first time a comic book film felt it it fitted into so many other genres and it went far above n beyond being a typical comic book movie. If it wasn't based in a comic book universe then it would of at least earn't a Oscar best picture nomination.

I prefer BB to TDK actually but thats mainly because I love origin stories but on a pure techinal level I will always admit TDK is the superior movie with a better more complex script.

 

[crookeddy]

the ledger thing and even he was overhyped as the joker because he died.

The hype was coming in berfore he died and also ^ that comment can go right in the bin where it belongs. TDK was the first time a comic book film felt it it fitted into so many other genres and it went far above n beyond being a typical comic book movie. If it wasn't based in a comic book universe then it would of at least earn't a Oscar best picture nomination.

I prefer BB to TDK actually but thats mainly because I love origin stories but on a pure techinal level I will always admit TDK is the superior movie with a better more complex script.

You mean the first time a superhero comic book movie went outside the "comic movie" genre... or do you really mean and comic book movie?

 

[Hound of UIster]

TDKR was even worse imho especially the ending.

Batman giving up to live a regular life with Catwoman show a total lack of understanding of the character or Catwoman's purpose as one of his many foils.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Not that I like it either however, it might have been a nod of sorts to the "Earth 2" or Golden age Batman(sort of), who did actually settle down with Catwoman. They had a daughter, Huntress, as well...although that character's backstory was kind of wiped clean during DC's first major reboot in the 80s (Crisis on Infinite Earths) and a new Huntress appeared, the backstory was used for the "Birds Of Prey" TV show.

Not sure if the new 52 Huntress has the same backstory, DC universe continuity can get confusing.

 

[Dales]

I am one that enjoys Batman Begins more than TDK. Ledger was great as the Joker but my problem with the movie is that it feels a little bloated and went on too long. By the time they get to the boat scene I was getting anxious for them to warp it up. I think Begins is an example of tighter story telling and TDK needed some trimming and editing. It starts out well but ty the time Havey turns himself in it started getting to muddled for my tastes.

I feel that way about the dark knight rises. Too bloated wanted to get too much in there and could have ended a long time earlier. Still like the film though.

the problem with dark knight rises is that it was just too disjoined. bale phoned on his performance and bane was just over the top to be taken seriously and I barely heard what he was saying and the last arc with the plot twist of bane/thlia was just bad writing.

the ledger thing and even he was overhyped as the joker because he died.

The hype was coming in berfore he died and also ^ that comment can go right in the bin where it belongs. TDK was the first time a comic book film felt it it fitted into so many other genres and it went far above n beyond being a typical comic book movie. If it wasn't based in a comic book universe then it would of at least earn't a Oscar best picture nomination.

I prefer BB to TDK actually but thats mainly because I love origin stories but on a pure techinal level I will always admit TDK is the superior movie with a better more complex script.

And thats the problem, people buy into the media hype of the film without knowing the real truth and the real truth is that the first time a comic film went beyond the comic genre was in the new millennium with xmen 1 in the year 2000. in fact Nolan got the idea of realism and darkness and social commentary from xmen. Nolan said he saw xmen 1 with the holocaust and he was like...this is how I want my film to be. xmen is the first comic film that went beyond the typical comic as the film is layed with politics and social commentary from racism , big government vs small government, the Jewish holocaust and
prejudice.


TDK is also hardly complex. joker is pretty one dimensional and straight forward. batman begins was more complex especially the theme of justice and revenge and the dark shadows. sorry tdk is just a cat and mouse game with the joker until joker got bored.

I also stand by my comments. the only reason why the film is so talked about was because of ledger. once you remove him from the film, no one remembers or invest in any other character even batman himself and that is bad to me it gets worse when you think of Rachel dawes

 

[suarezguy]

I had some problems with TDK. Ledger was good but not great (overall not better than Scarecrow or Ra's or Spidey's Dr. Octopus, let alone Hannibal Lecter), it felt unrealistic that Joker and Batman wouldn't have met in the year between BB and TDK and Batman choosing to take responsibility for the killings to save Dent's reputation felt forced.
Although it's true to some or most of the comics, I thought it was a little pretentious to give the Joker multiple/no true background (although I did really like the second story he told and prefer to think something like it actually did happen).
I also think it's ironic that the movie focuses so much more on Joker and Dent and is praised when Batman Returns has been heavily criticized for focusing more on the villains than hero.

Dont understand what you mean by the pretentious remark about not giving the joker a backgound? Thats very much like the comics! There has been various stories told about how the joker became the joker, but DC comics have never said which is true his hostory has always been a Mystery!

It working in comics (although I think some of them were meant to be definitive and to me The Killing Joke origin felt like objective flashbacks rather than just memories) doesn't mean it works in a film, I thought it was a cop-out and less interesting to say that we won't reveal his past and his motives can't be or aren't meant to be understood.