The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[Trekker4747]

True but I wish they cut out the entire Chinese plot. It made no sense to the story whatsoever.

Huh? I thought it was pretty clear that they needed to bring the guy back to Gotham to testify against the mob bosses. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

Even in the 'comic book world', the abduction of a citizen outside United States jurisdiction is a bit iffy, if not highly illegal. It can be done if there is extraditing laws, but I highly doubt that China and the United States have extraditing laws.

First off, they didn't run it by the Mayor. Secondly, it was on the freaking NEWS. Third, even if the Chinese, ignored it, they would still be in there right to protest the kidnapping and incarceration of one of their citizens indefinitely. Fourth, since he died. Well that brings up even more repercussions not only for the GCPD, but for Gotham itself and the United States. What the hell are they going to say, "Oops our bad." Yeah, like that'll fly.

Well. Everyone's "offical position" seems to be that uhh... what's his name just "showed up" back in Gotham and no one really knew how. (I mean, everyone KNEW but no one was taking that stance.) The Batman operates independantly. Once (Lao?) was back in the states why should they extradite him back to China? They wanted him and they had him. They simply took the postion that "apparently his travel plans brought him back to the US."

 

[TK421]

Best. Joker. Ever.

 

[Goliath]

Well, I saw it again this afternoon, and if anything, I liked TDK better the second time.

One thing I really noticed this time: The Dark Knight is a very fast movie. Everything happens quickly, and there's always something going on. Even with a running time of 150 minutes, it felt like it never slowed down to catch its breath--or let me catch mine. It's the LA Confidential of comic-book movies.

As a result, I was able to keep up a lot better the second time around, and both noticed and remembered subtleties and nuances that I missed the first time. Things like Gordon's conversation with Ramirez, early in the movie, on the roof of the MCU building.

On the other hand, I also noticed just how stilted some of the dialogue was, right at the end. Ouch.

Still, overall, if I had a chance to vote again, I'd say this movie was 'excellent' rather than 'above average'.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I saw it again this weekend too, and it's interesting upon a second viewing. Some things work just as well - I almost think Joker is more mesmerizing the second time around. Obviously the ferry boat dilemma loses a little tension when you know what's going to happen. There were some continuity things peope have complained about - the monorail for instance - I saw it in the background of at least two Gotham shots, including the shot of the new black Wayne Tower. I also caught the "Sweet Home Chicago" sign behind the Joker as he stalks down LaSalle Street - oops! (Great candy shop though!)

I'd venture to say the dialogue is stilted in a quite a few places. Strangely enough, in other places, it's fantastic.

Some where in this thread (or maybe the "lingering questions" thread) someone asked about why Joker gave the city time to evacuate the hospital before blowing it up - watching it again, I think he pulled the whole thing just so he could get to Harvey and complete his degradation. It was never about anything but that and grabbing a busload of hostages, and he went ahead and blew it up just for kicks basically.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I guess I'll be one of the heretics rating this an Average.

It was definitely better than Batman Begins, but the second half of the movie completely fell apart, after a very compelling first half.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Some where in this thread (or maybe the "lingering questions" thread) someone asked about why Joker gave the city time to evacuate the hospital before blowing it up - watching it again, I think he pulled the whole thing just so he could get to Harvey and complete his degradation. It was never about anything but that and grabbing a busload of hostages, and he went ahead and blew it up just for kicks basically.

That's a very good point. During my second viewing, I did realize that The Joker blew up the hosiptal immediately after he got out (or rather began blowing up as he was leaving) with no consideration of time or whether Reese had been killed. I just didn't go the whole nine yards to the point you got to.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Huh? I thought it was pretty clear that they needed to bring the guy back to Gotham to testify against the mob bosses. Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

Even in the 'comic book world', the abduction of a citizen outside United States jurisdiction is a bit iffy, if not highly illegal. It can be done if there is extraditing laws, but I highly doubt that China and the United States have extraditing laws.

First off, they didn't run it by the Mayor. Secondly, it was on the freaking NEWS. Third, even if the Chinese, ignored it, they would still be in there right to protest the kidnapping and incarceration of one of their citizens indefinitely. Fourth, since he died. Well that brings up even more repercussions not only for the GCPD, but for Gotham itself and the United States. What the hell are they going to say, "Oops our bad." Yeah, like that'll fly.

Well. Everyone's "offical position" seems to be that uhh... what's his name just "showed up" back in Gotham and no one really knew how. (I mean, everyone KNEW but no one was taking that stance.) The Batman operates independantly. Once (Lao?) was back in the states why should they extradite him back to China? They wanted him and they had him. They simply took the postion that "apparently his travel plans brought him back to the US."

But that makes no sense still! The police will have seen Batman abducting Lao or whatever his name is, and I don't think the Chinese GOVERNMENT (the people maybe) are living in such a vacuum they don't know who Batman is. And if it is on the news, well you can bet the Chinese government is trying to figure out who abducted their citizen.

The biggest thing is the police in this. If Batman had killed everyone in the building and left no witnesses, FINE. But put two and two together.

 

[the_wildcard]

Best. Joker. Ever.

Period.

 

[Trekker4747]

But that makes no sense still! The police will have seen Batman abducting Lao or whatever his name is, and I don't think the Chinese GOVERNMENT (the people maybe) are living in such a vacuum they don't know who Batman is. And if it is on the news, well you can bet the Chinese government is trying to figure out who abducted their citizen.

I don't know. It's possible that outside Gotham Batman is very unknown. He's not a "superhero" at this point who has saved the world or done anything dramaticly, well, superhuman. He's just a nut job in a mask and cape taking crime-fighting into his own hands. I doubt anyone outside Gotham really knows or cares who he is.

 

[Sagart]

It's the LA Confidential of comic-book movies.

Blasphemy!!

Ok, I'll calm down. LA Confidential is in my top 5 of all time.
TDK was very good but I don't think it's a movie that will stay in my affections. I will buy it when it comes on Blu-Ray but it won't be one I take down and watch very often like X2 or Spidey 2. Some people have compared it to Heat. I feel the same; a film I admire rather than love.

Oh, and Christian? Get some throat lozenges before B3!!

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

Where Nolan's film stumble a bit is in the more extreme technical concepts, which are probably the same "confused and ridiculous tech" you reference. Batman Begins' microwave generator isn't preposterous, but the way it selectively vaporizes water in the movie certainly is....

I have seen several people express issue with this microwave device. We are all accustomed to the little box that boils water, heats our chicken and pops popcorn. This is not that device.

The consumer microwave oven operates over a broad range of frequencies. In contrast, the microwave emitter of BB would have the capability to operate on a single frequency. This single frequency would be the one that boils water (or in the case of BB, the single frequency would be the one that boils water laden with toxin) and not one that boils a saline solution (a different frequency).

That's a great theory and it would do a great job of explaining how it was able to work the way it did in The Narrows. It would not explain, however, how it worked on the ship it was stolen from. Any water in the pipes of the ship would not have had the fear toxin in it.

Why would the devices default be set to the frequency of water containing the fear toxin? I think we can assume the thing has different settings.

 

[cultcross]

It was definitely better than Batman Begins, but the second half of the movie completely fell apart, after a very compelling first half.

Really? I thought the second half was better than the first. Not that I disliked the first, but from the Mayor's assassination scene onwards I thought the pacing improved dramatically.

 

[Goliath]

It's the LA Confidential of comic-book movies.

Blasphemy!!

Ok, I'll calm down. LA Confidential is in my top 5 of all time.

Hey--it's one of my favourite movies as well. But I had to watch it three times (and read the book) before I was able to follow the plot from start to finish.

 

[MNM]

It was definitely better than Batman Begins, but the second half of the movie completely fell apart, after a very compelling first half.

Really? I thought the second half was better than the first. Not that I disliked the first, but from the Mayor's assassination scene onwards I thought the pacing improved dramatically.

I thought the second half was too crammed and dis-jointed. Gave it an average too. Much too long and just didnt enjoy it as much as Begins.

 

[Manticore]

It was definitely better than Batman Begins, but the second half of the movie completely fell apart, after a very compelling first half.

Really? I thought the second half was better than the first. Not that I disliked the first, but from the Mayor's assassination scene onwards I thought the pacing improved dramatically.

I thought the second half was too crammed and dis-jointed. Gave it an average too. Much too long and just didnt enjoy it as much as Begins.

That's odd. I felt that the beginning was very crammed and disjointed, while the rest flowed nicely and worked quite well.

 

[Timby]

I wanted to see Gordon do more than break into a few banks. I wanted him to go after some of the petty criminals set free in Batman Begins.

You complain about a subplot that adds nothing to the movie, and then turn around and say you want the movie to waste time on Gordon chasing petty crooks, which in turn would ... add nothing of substantive value to the movie.

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Really? I thought the second half was better than the first. Not that I disliked the first, but from the Mayor's assassination scene onwards I thought the pacing improved dramatically.

I thought the second half was too crammed and dis-jointed. Gave it an average too. Much too long and just didnt enjoy it as much as Begins.

That's odd. I felt that the beginning was very crammed and disjointed, while the rest flowed nicely and worked quite well.

The movie built up tension pretty well, all the way up to the Joker being captured the first time. The interrogation scene was good, but didn't really live up to the Joker's previous scenes, such as the first time he confronted the mob. The hospital plot wasn't bad, but it just felt like the movie gradually ran out of steam. The sequence with Batman in the glass building looking for the Joker just didn't work for me. The effects were cool and all, but I just didn't feel the tension the way I did with the car chase. Maybe it's because the Joker was holding a bunch of nobody hostages.

A cardinal rule of drama: if you're going to place people in danger so the hero can save them, they need to be people you care about. The chase scene worked because Dent's life was at stake, and by that point in the movie it was hard not to care what happened to him. But with a bunch of people I know nothing about being held hostage... well, who cares? If they die, it wouldn't really affect the audience in any way.

I didn't think it was a bad movie, I just think it might have actually worked better if the two big Joker plots had been reversed: have the glass building/hostages earlier on, and the big car chase as the final act's action setpiece.

And a LOT of the mob stuff could have been cut without losing much (except Tom Berenger.) The mob stuff was okay in Begins, but it just didn't do much here.

 

[doubleohfive]

Saw it yesterday during a double-feature marathon with some friends. Loved it.

Definitely want to go see it in IMAX now.

PS X-Files sucked.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

I wanted to see Gordon do more than break into a few banks. I wanted him to go after some of the petty criminals set free in Batman Begins.

You complain about a subplot that adds nothing to the movie, and then turn around and say you want the movie to waste time on Gordon chasing petty crooks, which in turn would ... add nothing of substantive value to the movie.

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

I wanted more character development out of the characters. It was nearly devoid of any in the movie.

I think that if we got rid of the whole Chinese subplot (which made no sense and as you said added nothing to the movie) and used that time to added to the development of Gordon and Dent, I think that would be been better to the movie.

If you don't think adding some substance to Gordon and his rapid and confusing ascension to commissioner, then you aren't a writer.

Truthfully Batman and Superman were never my favorite DC characters. Or Wonder Woman. I liked the other ones better. There were a few Batman comics I did enjoy (Long Halloween being one of them). I enjoyed the TAS and Beyond immensely and Justice League but those are another medium.

 

[doubleohfive]

I wanted to see Gordon do more than break into a few banks. I wanted him to go after some of the petty criminals set free in Batman Begins.

You complain about a subplot that adds nothing to the movie, and then turn around and say you want the movie to waste time on Gordon chasing petty crooks, which in turn would ... add nothing of substantive value to the movie.

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

I wanted more character development out of the characters. It was nearly devoid of any in the movie.

There was plenty of that.

I think that if we got rid of the whole Chinese subplot (which made no sense and as you said added nothing to the movie) and used that time to added to the development of Gordon and Dent, I think that would be been better to the movie.

I thought Gordon had plenty of development, at least plenty in terms of what was needed in the film.

If you don't think adding some substance to Gordon and his rapid and confusing ascension to commissioner, then you aren't a writer.

It wasn't rapid. He didn't get promoted til at least midway through the film, and even before that he was on the ground doing everything he could to catch the Joker -- which he eventually ended up aiding in doing.

Truthfully Batman and Superman were never my favorite DC characters. Or Wonder Woman. I liked the other ones better.

So despite the objective quality of the film, your subjective opinion has already marred it. Gotcha.

There were a few Batman comics I did enjoy (Long Halloween being one of them). I enjoyed the TAS and Beyond immensely and Justice League but those are another medium.

Relevance?