Perhaps you and I are reading posts in this forum differently, because I've been seeing it a lot, especially when talking about Nicholson's Joker.
The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
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Perhaps you and I are reading posts in this forum differently, because I've been seeing it a lot, especially when talking about Nicholson's Joker.
^ Oh, people have been critical about bits and pieces of the movie just like they are with anything else, but I've never seen any widespread hate for the movie as a whole. As far as I can see, it's still well regarded.
Something else I've been wondering. I realize this is still a PG-13 movie and it couldn't get TOO dark, but was anybody else kinda surprised that The Joker gave everyone enough time to completely evacuate the hospitals before blowing one up?
I realize it still created enough panic and chaos either way, but it seemed like it would achieve the same thing (and be more in character) if he actually blew one up full of people. Simply blowing up an empty building didn't seem like it would be quite as much, well, fun to someone like him. Plus he was perfectly willing to blow up the ferries later on, so what gives?
I realize it still created enough panic and chaos either way, but it seemed like it would achieve the same thing (and be more in character) if he actually blew one up full of people. Simply blowing up an empty building didn't seem like it would be quite as much, well, fun to someone like him. Plus he was perfectly willing to blow up the ferries later on, so what gives?
He was more after making people themselves evil and destructive, with himself being the seed of chaos rather than sole perpetrator of that chaos. Though he did bring chaos personally, he certainly could have done more. But he wanted to bring humanity to his level.
Yeah that makes sense. I just think, if he really wanted to create fear in people and make them do crazy things, killing lots of innocent civilians would have done the trick better than anything. As it is, the only things he does in the movie, IIRC, is rob some banks, kill some mob bosses and vigilantes, and make an attempt on the mayor's life. Is that really enough to send an entire city into a panic like we saw? I'm not so sure.
Unless life in Gotham is ALREADY so bad that it only takes a little to send people completely over the edge. lol
His plan was to promote chaos and terror. It's far more terrorizing to tell people you're going to blow up a hopsital and let them panic, worry for loved ones, scramble and run to evacuate and cause chaos than to just blow up a building and let people deal with the aftermath.
Telling people he's going to blow up a hospital in an hour turned the city into chaos, far more chaos and terror than would be caused by the deaths of just blowing one up without warning. Not to mention breaking down someone's moral aptitude by taking down the narc.
Same thing with the bridges and ferries. The point wasn't to kill people it was to create chaos and panic and to perform his "social experiment" and drive some people of good to toss out their societal inhabitions and make an active decisions to kill.
It's still dark, just in a much more stylized, gothic sense. It is a Tim Burton movie through & through. For those like myself who like Burton movies, it's as good as it gets.
In a way, I miss stylized Gotham. Even Batman Begins got a little more of the decaying look of Gotham City right. The Dark Knight was too much straight Chicago; sort of like how Metropolis in the Christopher Reeve Superman movies was clearly New York. (The difference is that Metropolis was never a character in Superman the way that Gotham is in Batman.)
I was just put off, a bit, but how much Gotham "changed' between the movies. Not the least of which with Wayne Tower.
I think that Batman Returns is more of a Burton movie through and through. Pretty much everything about the movie was Burton-esque. I heard that he was given more freedom to do what he wanted after Batman's success.
Yeah, that was a bit jarring. The monorail was in the film, albeit not as much as in Batman Begins. Probably because it didn't play a big part of the story this time around.
However, in some scenes, well, maybe one (Joker's intro), you can see the the el train. So, what, are there two trains in Gotham now? I guess I can sort of see it, since the monorail was kind of damaged in the last one, and with all of the plot movement in The Dark Knight, falls short on the list of important plot points.
Wayne Tower was just a completely different building (the ex-IBM building) and the Board of Trade was left for normal. Heck, even the monorail which ran through LaSalle in Batman Begins was missing. I can only assume the Wayne Tower we see in The Dark Knight is a new building after the old one was damaged. I can then only guess the monorail was taken down after Batman Begins.
However, in some scenes, well, maybe one (Joker's intro), you can see the the el train. So, what, are there two trains in Gotham now? I guess I can sort of see it, since the monorail was kind of damaged in the last one, and with all of the plot movement in The Dark Knight, falls short on the list of important plot points.
Wayne Tower was just a completely different building (the ex-IBM building) and the Board of Trade was left for normal. Heck, even the monorail which ran through LaSalle in Batman Begins was missing. I can only assume the Wayne Tower we see in The Dark Knight is a new building after the old one was damaged. I can then only guess the monorail was taken down after Batman Begins.
Someone suggested that Bruce made some changes that included moving Wayne Enterprises to a more modest building. Works for me. As for the change in Gotham's look between movies, yeah it is jarring, but oddly enough I'm finding myself more displeased with Batman Begins for not matching up with The Dark Knight and not the other way around.
Yeah, I prefer the look of Gotham in The Dark Knight to Batman Begins. It just feels more like a real city, mostly because it is pretty much is.
It's also a lot easier to buy this sweeping crime drama in a Gotham that feels very much like our own.
It's also a lot easier to buy this sweeping crime drama in a Gotham that feels very much like our own.
Yeah I have a feeling that was Nolan's main reason for the changes. The Gothan in Batman Begins was such a ridiculously dark and miserable looking place that I had a hard time even relating to it as a real city. I mean I know times are bad, but I can't imagine any city in modern day America (or even in an alternative or "near future" America) ever deteriorating to THAT level.
The Gotham in TDK felt much more like a real place to me.
I liked the city in Begins, but I think it was musch ebtter here. By eschewing all of the stylized elements, it made the viewer take the drama seriously. My friend was reluctant to see it. I got him to go last night. Two minutes in he nudged me on the shoulder adding that he loooooved the fact that the city was real. He even commented again at the end
A lot of the "dark and misery" in BB could have to do with it mostly taking place in "The Narrows."
That and I like to think that the visual change of the city reflects on how Batman has been cleaning up the city in the past year since Batman Begins.
I don't like it at all. It completely turned me off Batman when I first saw it, before I knew much about Batman himself. I just don't get hung up over bashing movies I don't like.
Or another thought would be that when the monorail train went through the tower in Begins, it caused enough structural damage that it was unsafe. So, they either built a new one, or more likely for the time frame, Bruce bought out another builfing and renamed it.Someone suggested that Bruce made some changes that included moving Wayne Enterprises to a more modest building. Works for me. As for the change in Gotham's look between movies, yeah it is jarring, but oddly enough I'm finding myself more displeased with Batman Begins for not matching up with The Dark Knight and not the other way around.
Or another thought would be that when the monorail train went through the tower in Begins, it caused enough structural damage that it was unsafe. So, they either built a new one, or more likely for the time frame, Bruce bought out another builfing and renamed it.Someone suggested that Bruce made some changes that included moving Wayne Enterprises to a more modest building. Works for me. As for the change in Gotham's look between movies, yeah it is jarring, but oddly enough I'm finding myself more displeased with Batman Begins for not matching up with The Dark Knight and not the other way around.
I dunno. After the first WTC bombing that building was still viable after some reconstruction.