The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[Canadave]

Similar moments were the mayor's eye makeup and Bale's gravelly Batman voice which wasn't working so well in the final moments of the picture.

I'm not sure if that was makeup or if Nestor Carbonell just has naturally dark eyes, since he looks exactly the same when he's on Lost.

 

[Goliath]

Spoiler: of course...

I figured the Joker probably wired the detonators to their own bomb anyway. Just seems like what he'd do.

Spoiler: Ha-HAHAHA-hee-hee-haHA

True. But they didn't know that. At least, it didn't seem to occur to them.

 

[Captain Craig]

A very good film, though I didn't find it as stunning as some people did. I rated it "above average".

For some reason, the beginning didn't seem to work very well--at least for me. In retrospect, the movie reminds me of a car that has trouble starting, at first, then gets rolling smoothly, and finally is racing along at breakneck speeds and performing all sorts of amazing stunts by the end.

I actually gasped and said "oh!" when...

Spoiler: the prisoner's dilemma

...the convict threw the detonator out the porthole. That, and the other passenger's inability to throw the switch, on the other ferry, was one of the most powerful moments of the film for me--a very forceful affirmation of the basic goodness and decency of ordinary people, and a big collective "Fuck You" to the Joker.

It was as if those passengers were saying: "you may kill us, you twisted freak, but you can't degrade us down to your level, and make us kill each other; we are not like you." They were all tempted--even sorely tempted--but finally stepped back from the brink. It was an unexpectedly positive message for such a dark film. Just brilliant writing and directing, IMO.

That scene, in turn, got me thinking about the person the Joker did succeed in degrading: Harvey Dent.

On the one hand, you could argue that any man could be driven over the edge by such a traumatic experience. But looking back, the movie seems to have hinted that all was not quite right with Dent to begin with. He deceives people with a two-headed coin, and brags about "making his own luck." This seems innocent enough, at first--he uses it to persuade Rachel to go out with him. Their relationship begins with a little white lie--but a lie nonetheless.

Then things take a darker turn, when he uses the coin-flip to torture that one prisoner. We know that he won't pull the trigger--the coin will always come up heads--but his captive doesn't. Both of these incidents hint, at least to me, that Dent is not quite the white knight he's made out to be. The seeds of Two-Face exist inside Dent, long before he is disfigured.

And ultimately, of course, when Rachel is murdered, Batman is wounded as deeply as Dent--but does not go off the deep end the way Dent does. Ultimately, and ironically, the "dark knight" possesses moral resources that the "white knight" does not. He won't even kill the Joker.

Spoiler: of course...

I figured the Joker probably wired the detonators to their own bomb anyway. Just seems like what he'd do.

I told my friend the same thing. Seems I wasn't the only one to think that.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Similar moments were the mayor's eye makeup and Bale's gravelly Batman voice which wasn't working so well in the final moments of the picture.

I'm not sure if that was makeup or if Nestor Carbonell just has naturally dark eyes, since he looks exactly the same when he's on Lost.

Haven't watched Lost lately but maybe, it just seemed really prominent, especially in his office.

 

[Trekker4747]

One or both would be fitting.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

A very good film, though I didn't find it as stunning as some people did. I rated it "above average".

For some reason, the beginning didn't seem to work very well--at least for me. In retrospect, the movie reminds me of a car that has trouble starting, at first, then gets rolling smoothly, and finally is racing along at breakneck speeds and performing all sorts of amazing stunts by the end.

I actually gasped and said "oh!" when...

Spoiler: the prisoner's dilemma

...the convict threw the detonator out the porthole. That, and the other passenger's inability to throw the switch, on the other ferry, was one of the most powerful moments of the film for me--a very forceful affirmation of the basic goodness and decency of ordinary people, and a big collective "Fuck You" to the Joker.

It was as if those passengers were saying: "you may kill us, you twisted freak, but you can't degrade us down to your level, and make us kill each other; we are not like you." They were all tempted--even sorely tempted--but finally stepped back from the brink. It was an unexpectedly positive message for such a dark film. Just brilliant writing and directing, IMO.

That scene, in turn, got me thinking about the person the Joker did succeed in degrading: Harvey Dent.

On the one hand, you could argue that any man could be driven over the edge by such a traumatic experience. But looking back, the movie seems to have hinted that all was not quite right with Dent to begin with. He deceives people with a two-headed coin, and brags about "making his own luck." This seems innocent enough, at first--he uses it to persuade Rachel to go out with him. Their relationship begins with a little white lie--but a lie nonetheless.

Then things take a darker turn, when he uses the coin-flip to torture that one prisoner. We know that he won't pull the trigger--the coin will always come up heads--but his captive doesn't. Both of these incidents hint, at least to me, that Dent is not quite the white knight he's made out to be. The seeds of Two-Face exist inside Dent, long before he is disfigured.

And ultimately, of course, when Rachel is murdered, Batman is wounded as deeply as Dent--but does not go off the deep end the way Dent does. Ultimately, and ironically, the "dark knight" possesses moral resources that the "white knight" does not. He won't even kill the Joker.

Spoiler: of course...

I figured the Joker probably wired the detonators to their own bomb anyway. Just seems like what he'd do.

I thought the same thing and I expected confirmation of that with the civilian boat, but alas...

 

[Agent Richard07]

This had to be one of the worst superhero movies I've ever seen. Where was the camp? Where was the fun? I saw Batman Returns and Batman Forever this week. THAT's how you do a Batman movie. I don't want some depressing police drama. Best Batman movie ever? Please. Gimme a break! What a piece of crap. It was boring and depressing. I want my money back. What did you people see in this movie?

I am of course joking.

I'm a bit biased right now and can't say that this was one of the best superhero movies ever made, but it's certainly up there among the best and I could see it in the position of "best superhero movie". It's my favorite Batman movie to date. I think I'll declare it "Best Batman Movie Ever". How's that? It was absolutely wonderful to see a Batman movie done well and that takes it's source material seriously. Before seeing this movie, I figured it would be a good drama that just happens to take place in Gotham City as opposed to just another superhero movie and I came out of the movie with thinking... I was right, and it delievered. In fact, it exceded my expectations in many ways.

Here are my thoughts and observations in point form...

- I noticed that they toned down the stylized gothic look from Batman Begins. Actually, it looked like they got rid of it completely and played everything straight and down-to-earth.

- Great all-star cast, and they did it all without making this look "star-studded" which is what the Burton/Shumaker movies were.

- Heath Ledger was indeed fantastic as the Joker, although I'm a bit reluctant to credit him for the character. The Joker is a wild, weird kind of guy and I think that that's what most people are responding to and not so much Ledger. I'm sure a lot of actors could have done an equally fantastic job in the role.

- I can't say enough about the Joker. Well, I can actually since I rarely have a lot to say to begin with. Anyway... It was nice to see how well the character worked. He wasn't a cartoonish bad guy. He was a genuine psychopath who was the embodiement of how crazy the criminal element could get. I think I liked the moments when he was trying to be taken seriously at the beginning more than I did his other antics. Showed what kind of pain must be underneath the schtick.

- I was happy to see a lack of microwave devices or other similar gimmicks.

- The costume was effective enough and I did like how realistic and utilitarian it was. I even liked the scene when Bruce was preparing his move on that building in Hong Kong. However, a lot of the time, it all looked a bit too armor-and-helmet-ish.

- It was fascinating to see a Batman movie without Wayne Manor or the batcave.

- It was equally nice to see Batman go to Hong Kong. That was a nice touch.

- The Two-Face look was absolutely incredible. It expected the usual "burn victim" prosthetics that almost never look good, but got to see something better... Something gruesome that looked true to the comic book images with the mouth and the eye. Great CGI work there.

- The way that guy decided not to out Bruce as Batman was a bit weak, but it wasn't totally bad either. I'm willing to let it go.

- I liked how they didn't play up the "people are fundamentally bad and selfish" bit with the bombs on the ferries. People can come through like they did on those boats, or they can fall apart like Harvey did.

- Loved the ending. Do I need to say why?

- I think that the Joker's story was wrapped up nicely enough that he won't be needed in the next movie. For me, that also puts to rest any speculation about who could or should replace him.

- The mix of Batman with real-world drama was so well done that this movie actually raised my confidence that characters like Robin or Batgirl could be done and done well if they had to be included.

- Speaking of Batgirl, or should I say Barbara Gordon, I don't think that Comissioner Gordon's daughter who we got a glimpse of is necessarily her. One continuity has Barbara Gordon as his niece turned adopted daughter.

- In closing, there was a moment during the movie where I said to myself... "This is HORRIBLE!" No, the movie wasn't horrible. I was just reacting to Rachel getting blown up and a distressed Harvey getting his face burned. I cant remember the last time I had a strong reaction whaile watching a superhero movie that wasn't a "whoa cool!" adrenaline rush. Maybe during the hospital scene in Superman Returns, but that's about it. That's another testament to how well made this movie was.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I spent months being upset that Rachel Dawes was recast because I REALLY hate that sort of thing. It was supposed to ruin the movie. I even vowed to take off a grade because of it. Well, I eventually simmered down and now I'm here forgetting to mention it. I still don't like it, but I'm letting it sit on the back burner and giving the movie an 'excellent'.

I can't wait for the next installment.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Average.

I don't know. I went to see it with my mind open because the trailers didn't do much for me. I just had problems with the pacing and well the dialogue. It wasn't that it was horrible, it was that I couldn't UNDERSTAND THEM. The fight scenes were as good as Batman Begins, both good and bad. It was hard to see what the hell was going on for the most part.

The Joker surprised me. I rather have a more lunatic Joker, like Ledger played for the most part, than...well Nicholson. The other problem I had was with the Joker. He was good, very good but I rather have him completely off the hook and completely insane than having him try to pull back that insanity.

It wasn't as bad as Transformers but it wasn't as fun as the first Batman.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The other problem I had was with the Joker. He was good, very good but I rather have him completely off the hook and completely insane than having him try to pull back that insanity.

But The Joker isn't suppose to come back from insanity. That's the whole point. He's beyond hope.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

But he was really on the edge. I liked the subtle ways they made nods to the comics with the Joker but I don't like that you could see he was trying to keep himself composed all the time or at least trying too.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

But he was really on the edge. I liked the subtle ways they made nods to the comics with the Joker but I don't like that you could see he was trying to keep himself composed all the time or at least trying too.

I thought that just made him nuttier, at least more dangerous and unpredictable. Some guy who is simply bat-shit insane jumping off the walls like early Daffy Duck cartoons just isn't that interesting.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Eric Roberts is really good in this movie. I had no idea he was in it, and I was really impressed with his role.

I didn't know he was in it either and was also impressed.

In my neck of the woods, I've never, ever seen a theatre more than 70% of capacity. Ever. Not for any opening of any film. Period. Not Spider-Man, not Pirates. Nothing.

My theatre, which has it on two screens, was 95% or more filled.

I was worried that I'd end up in a crowded theater, but surprisingly it wasn't and I was very pleased.

Ledger's Joker owned. You actually did laugh at some of his hijinks, deadly as they may be.

Loved the picil trick. That was just sick, not to mention slick.

My only real complaint is with the China subplot, as it added 20 minutes to the movie and never contributed anything of real value to the movie.

I liked it. It was something new for a Batman movie. I also loved Gordon's stifled laugh when whatshisface was delivered with a note.

I was disappointed, though, that Ledger's dedication doesn't appear until "deep" into the credits rather in the front of the movie or in front of the credits.

I was looking out for that and didn't see it.

As silly as the cell phone sonar was, it was better than the water vaperizer in the first one.

I forgot about that. I questioned it briefly but in the end, it doesn't bug me. The microwave vaproizer was much worse.

I think the thing I liked the most about it was that it wasn't a cliche comic book movie... that was some really dark shit! It made any of the X-Men or any of the previous Batman's look like they were put out by Disney! It was dark, gritty, and plausible. It wasn't some guy looking to freeze the city (insert maniacle laughter).

Yeah, really.

Overall, the movie felt a bit long. I found myself checking my watch a few times--never a good thing. I will want to see it again for sure, but my first impression is that this was a very solid movie, but a step down from Begins.

I thought it was a step up and didn't think it was too long either. I could have sat there for a few more hours.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

But he was really on the edge. I liked the subtle ways they made nods to the comics with the Joker but I don't like that you could see he was trying to keep himself composed all the time or at least trying too.

I thought that just made him nuttier, at least more dangerous and unpredictable. Some guy who is simply bat-shit insane jumping off the walls like early Daffy Duck cartoons just isn't that interesting.

I liked that they played him truer to his cartoon roots and recently comic roots but there are just something off on him.

 

[Aragorn]

So Paxil is the MattJC of The Dark Knight? Now there's a shocker...

Is Harvey dead dead or are they saying he's dead so they can lock him away no questions asked? Is the guy who was going to blow the whistle on Bruce a loose end or does the fact that Bruce saved him mean we'll never hear from him again?

In the next movie, the mayor will have a nervous breakdown and become Batman's ultimate nemesis -- Batmanuel!

 

[archeryguy1701]

I'm inclined to think that he's still alive, but they just made him disappear since they needed him to remain a symbol of hope, especially since they are "officially" demonizing Batman. Besides, if Batman can survive that fall and be fine enough to run from the cops and their dogs, I'm sure Harvey can only be a little bit more worse for wear.

 

[TGTheodore]

Two things that surprised me:

Spoiler: Unexpected survivor

I was POSITIVE that Gordon's son was going to be killed. The writers/director played upon our knowledge of Gordon's "only" child being Barbara, so I was positive they were going to off the kid.

Spoiler: The healing power of positive thinking.

My, Eric Roberts' character sure mended pretty damn fast to be standing unassisted in the hospital corridor so quickly after having his legs snapped

Just a great, GREAT movie.

--Ted

 

[DWF]

In the next movie, the mayor will have a nervous breakdown and become Batman's ultimate nemesis -- Batmanuel!

LOL!!!

I thought it was an amazing movie both Eckhart and Leger stole the movie from Christian Bale who did an excellent job as well. But I think it was the scenes on the ferries that pretty summed up the movie I loved the fact that the convict threw the detonator out of the window and the other guy refusing to set off the explosives on the other boat. And while was a nice twist having this Joker be something of an agent of chaos and randomness he plans really seemed to be thought out and pretty complex which I thought was something of a contradiction.

 

[jbny67]

Spoiler: The healing power of positive thinking.

My, Eric Roberts' character sure mended pretty damn fast to be standing unassisted in the hospital corridor so quickly after having his legs snapped

Spoiler: The healing power of positive thinking.

I thought the same thing. Although, they did show him walking with a cane and a limp just before he is confronted by Two-Face in the car.

 

[Aragorn]

Knightfall would probably be the best-suited title for the third movie after how this one ended.

So this couple took their way-too-young son to see this movie and they sat in the row in front of me. Now while the movie didn't seem to freak out the kid in any way, he was quite bored with the non-action scenes and kept asking his dad questions, and after about two hours he was really jumpy in his seat.

I may be in the minority, but I like Katie Holmes. I'll grant that Maggie Gyllenhaal is a better actress and more suited to play an ADA because Holmes looks forever young (which I'm sure you all guys would just HATE to have in your spouses), but I wish Holmes had come back (and I bet she wishes she hadn't chosen Mad Money over The Dark Knight now). However, let's be honest here -- Rachel Dawes was the weakest-written main character in both movies.

Alright, who are the two Jokers that rated it "Poor"? Get it? Jokers?


I'm easily amused.

One apparently did it as a joke before the movie even came out. The other is a troll who hates the movie in advance, has no intention of seeing it and wants to share his self-fulfilling prophecy with the rest of us.

 

[Brolan]

A very good film, though I didn't find it as stunning as some people did. I rated it "above average".

For some reason, the beginning didn't seem to work very well--at least for me. In retrospect, the movie reminds me of a car that has trouble starting, at first, then gets rolling smoothly, and finally is racing along at breakneck speeds and performing all sorts of amazing stunts by the end.

I actually gasped and said "oh!" when...

Spoiler: the prisoner's dilemma

...the convict threw the detonator out the porthole. That, and the other passenger's inability to throw the switch, on the other ferry, was one of the most powerful moments of the film for me--a very forceful affirmation of the basic goodness and decency of ordinary people, and a big collective "Fuck You" to the Joker.

It was as if those passengers were saying: "you may kill us, you twisted freak, but you can't degrade us down to your level, and make us kill each other; we are not like you." They were all tempted--even sorely tempted--but finally stepped back from the brink. It was an unexpectedly positive message for such a dark film. Just brilliant writing and directing, IMO.

That scene, in turn, got me thinking about the person the Joker did succeed in degrading: Harvey Dent.

On the one hand, you could argue that any man could be driven over the edge by such a traumatic experience. But looking back, the movie seems to have hinted that all was not quite right with Dent to begin with. He deceives people with a two-headed coin, and brags about "making his own luck." This seems innocent enough, at first--he uses it to persuade Rachel to go out with him. Their relationship begins with a little white lie--but a lie nonetheless.

Then things take a darker turn, when he uses the coin-flip to torture that one prisoner. We know that he won't pull the trigger--the coin will always come up heads--but his captive doesn't. Both of these incidents hint, at least to me, that Dent is not quite the white knight he's made out to be. The seeds of Two-Face exist inside Dent, long before he is disfigured.

And ultimately, of course, when Rachel is murdered, Batman is wounded as deeply as Dent--but does not go off the deep end the way Dent does. Ultimately, and ironically, the "dark knight" possesses moral resources that the "white knight" does not. He won't even kill the Joker.

Spoiler: of course...

I figured the Joker probably wired the detonators to their own bomb anyway. Just seems like what he'd do.

I told my friend the same thing. Seems I wasn't the only one to think that.

Ditto for me as well.