I think the Galaxy class is designed for deep space exploration, so it has to have the best scientific facilities and the best defense systems because they don't know what they are going to encounter.
The contradiction of the Enterprise D mission role.
- Thread starter Brainsucker
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We are talking in TNG section, so throw Kirk out from this discussion.
The bold one: So you admit that Starfleet is more than Military. If Starfleet is a military, Their scope of missions will only limited to military one; according to UFP military doctrine. They won't be in charge of Section 31, diplomacy, archeology, researching, etc. Those missions will be handled by different government entity inside UFP. But it's not. Starfleet do more than what military do. Yes, they're a militaristic organization. But they're not just simple military like the Army, the Navy, the Marine, or the Air Force.
What Starfleet do is already the same as the government themselves. They're like the government inside a government. Maybe when UFP central government rule over planets, Starfleet fule over the space.Thus I compare them with VOC and Shogun.
No. They will be in "charge" of what ever role the government assigns them to.
Starfleet still answers to the Federation They do not have carte blanche in space.
Well, then there are multiple interpretation about Section 31. For the Memory Alpha version, Section 31 is a division of Starfleet Intelligence. And after the 24th century, they become rogue and not even Federation, but still considered as Starfleet Intelligent. It seems that your version is different from the Memory Alpha. But who care, our topic is more about Galaxy Class Starship.
For the Security Segment, well, accoding to what I read from Memory Alpha, they even engage an operation to develop Phasing cloaking device in USS Pegasus. Developing a secret tactical weapon like a phasing cloaking device is the job of military. Not the job of a police or security guard.
Yep, they still answer to the Federation. But they do almost everything for the Federation. Like a one stop shopping organization that handle everything. To an extend that we don't know if Federation has another departments beside Starfleet.
If you watch Star Trek and pay attention, you'll find they do.
They are more than a military. Which means they are also a military. Which makes them — since they’re the ones who fight the wars — the military. The fact that they do all this other stuff doesn’t in any way change this. (EDIT: They are also the primary NASA-like space agency, but that mostly doesn’t lead to exciting plots, except when it does.)
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Interesting. You begin your post saying we are in the TNG forum so Kirk has no place in this discussion, then you start talking about Section 31, which was never featured in TNG and therefore, by your own rules, should not be part of this discussion either.
So you're saying that they are more like Military Junta?
Connect the dots for me. How did you get to "Military Junta" from that post?
While I don’t think Starfleet is a junta, I can certainly see how Brainsucker got there — in practice, they do seem to run pretty much everything of import.
Just compare Starfleet with US Navy, which is more politically powerful in their respected country. US and Federation. There is a reason why the role of military has limitation. So they won't become too powerful politically, and then challenge the authority of the Civil Government.
If the Military is so powerful, what is the different between that Military and the Myanmar Junta who arrest their own leader and become their own citizen's enemy. And historically, there was Japanese Shogun who have more power than their own Emperor, and make the country leader a puppet. I'm sure that there are a lot of example in history about this.
So do you think that Starfleet is a military and it is right to have a very powerful political influence in it's respected country? It's so not democracy and more of dictatorship. I thought Star Trek is the vision of a better future.
It is different if Starfleet is more than Military. Like, for example, a government within a government. And that's is okay. US has a lot of government under their own Federal Government. EU also contain almost all European countries. And looking at Federation, it work like EU, which Federation is basically EU, Earth is a country like France, England, and German, while Starfleet is basically a country who rule over the space (outside the planets).
And that's why I call Starfleet as NAZA (NASA, it's intentional), and like VOC. It is a faction who have it's own military. Starfleet is basically not military, because it is an organization that has more Authority in it's respected government, if compared to any modern military in the world. Plus, Starfleet is more independent than US Navy and other military in the world. And they are not just a space force. They're even have authority on the planet security. Just look at DS9 episode home front. The Starfleet Admiral can order Starfleet Security to take blood sample to the Earth Citizens.
Sisco can even sponsored Bajor to become a member of UFP, but also prevent the UFP governments team from continue their job. There is no real ship captain and admiral can sponsored a country to be the member of UN, or UE. It always the civil government officials. Like the diplomats.
There is no Navy can do the same as what Starfleet do in US own soil. It is the job of another Force. Like National Guard and Army. Maybe marine, if ordered by US president. Plus, there is also a reason why every countries in our world split the military to at least 3 organization. Air Force, Army, and Navy. That's to limit their power. So when the army is rebelled, the government still has Air Force and Navy to counter them. But it seems that Starfleet rule them all. There was MACO. but according to the movie, they have been disbanded. There is no other military that can challenge or protect the UFP government if Starfleet ever do Coup d'etat.
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It's not my fault if you don't understand, LOL
No, it's just so far-fetched and ridiculous. You're seeing things that aren't there.
Are we really still debating whether or not Starfleet is a military? When the Dominion War happened, who fought it for the Federation? Case closed.
(And, yes, that is applicable in a TNG forum because the events of the Dominion War were mentioned by Picard in Insurrection.)
(And, yes, that is applicable in a TNG forum because the events of the Dominion War were mentioned by Picard in Insurrection.)
And mentioned that it felt very different from who they had been for a long time.
Edit: A military organization where combat-readiness is not its primary task, where vast numbers of members (and not just the lowest-rank) are genuinely surprised and ambivalent when armed conflict actually happens, when it legally and/or practically can only be used for defense may still be a military but it's a very unusual kind of one, could indeed be as much or better thought of as just a defense force/organization.
Edit again: It's possible a country could have no military, did have police who would be ready to defend country if there was invasion, I don't think that readiness would really make the police always also the military.
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I'm currently perusing the wiki page on the rejected episodes of TNG. It appears that deep space exploration in the series involves venturing beyond the Sol System. While there are colonized planets, they are scattered widely, leaving vast, uncharted territories in between. The Federation's map doesn't clearly indicate whether every corner within its borders has been fully explored. Additionally, new member nations join the Federation, bringing with them territories that may not have been thoroughly mapped. There are phenomena that are constantly in motion, and sentient beings traverse the galaxy, so there is indeed deep space exploration. Otherwise, why would they call their stations Deep Space 9 or similar names?
A Trireme is a military ship.
The late Pacific Princess wasn’t.
But we all know who would win in a game of “chicken”
How to Avoid Huge Ships - Wikipedia
I have that book—it just needs a photoshop of the Ent-D neck prow hitting the aluminum phalcon
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